Cruising to Key West?

[Roz]

4 hours ago, Aquahound said:

I'm not sure where you live or if your hometown has any reliance on tourism, but if you do, you will understand that tourists who spend money are always preferred.  I can't think of any tourist town that prefers low or no spenders. 

 

I live in such a town.  It used to be Nashville was a place where middle income families could visit for a few days or a weekend and have a good time.  Pre-Covid, downtown hotels were in the $300-500 per night range, pricing a lot of people out.  The Chamber of Commerce made a decision a few years back to go after the lucrative convention and meeting business.  Nashville is now for the well off.  How it will all shake out post-Covid remains to be seen.  

 

For downtown non-tourist businesses, it's made it difficult to bring people in for mtgs. or training.  My office has to book people into hotels in the surrounding counties and then have them drive into downtown every day.  

 

Our property taxes have gone up 34% in one year to pay for tourist infrastructure and tax incentives.  Residents and businesses not happy.

[FlaMariner]

10 hours ago, Roz said:

I'm sorry I'm a lower income individual. 😢

+1 (me too)

 

Key West talks about welcoming all kinds & being all about diversity but looks like my kind is not welcome....It's a nice clean way to discriminate against us lower income folk.....and they can hide behind the environment excuse and the horrors of a t shirt shop.  Sad.

[Rotterdam]

5 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

+1 (me too)

 

Key West talks about welcoming all kinds & being all about diversity but looks like my kind is not welcome....It's a nice clean way to discriminate against us lower income folk.....and they can hide behind the environment excuse and the horrors of a t shirt shop.  Sad.

Sorry but this is total garbage. Just because someone cant have something they want doesnt mean there is discrimination.  

I just looked up a popular travel site & found several hotels at $200 a nite for the first weekend of February 2021(fri-sun). And during low season it is less expensive.

It's all about choice..I don't wear $200+

Sneakers, alligator shirts or t shirts, nor have hundreds of cable channels.  I've travelled all over the world on QE2, Panama Canal, all over the carib, climbed the Great wall & been all over Europe & South America several times. I've stated in Four Seasons & Ritz Carlton Hotels and camped in a tent on St John's USVI &  travelled to Key West several times since 1978.

I applaud Key West actions & they are welcoming to all..its their town, they make their own rules...if you really want to go you'll get there & hopefully respect their town..just as anyone wants.

 

 

[Roz]

I respect everyone's town and country, whether I arrive there by cruise ship, automobile, plane, bus, train, bicycle, or on foot. 

[rkacruiser]

The good people made a decision that leads to people of goodwill to have different views about that decision.

 

I live in a community that is home to the National Museum of the Air Force.  It has been the site for several years of the First Four of the NCAA Basketball Tournament and many additional annual events.  Those all have been seriously missed from an economic standpoint because of the pandemic.  As the crossroad for I-70 and I-75, how many visitors have not patronized our local businesses this year?  

 

1 hour ago, Roz said:

  It used to be Nashville was a place where middle income families could visit for a few days or a weekend and have a good time

 

Like Nashville, this is Dayton.  We may get the benefit of some "high rollers" during some events, such as the First Four.  Nashville probably gets the same benefit from times because of their music scene and their professional sports team.

 

Our "bread and butter" are those visitors that have dollars to spend.  Why is Key West any different?  Do those of us who pay admissions to visit the Hemingway House, to take a Trolley Tour, to buy a slice of a Key Lime Pie at their shop, etc. make no difference?  

 

I have said on this Forum that I am also very aware of the importance of protecting the marine environment, i.e. the coral reefs.  These MUST be protected as well as possible.  

 

We have failed to find the proper balance between tourism and the environment.  This is true and not only in Key West.

 

Let the large cruise ship ban take place.  Let's see what the future will hold for the small businesses that have existed in the Conch Republic.  

[Roz]

@rkacruiser, I've visited Dayton many times, and really enjoyed the Air Force Museum.  Didn't make my annual trip to Dayton in 2020 due to Covid.  

 

I agree there needs to be a balance between tourism and quality of life for residents.  I just don't want to see travel become what it used to be, something only the well off could afford to experience.

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

+1 (me too)

 

Key West talks about welcoming all kinds & being all about diversity but looks like my kind is not welcome....It's a nice clean way to discriminate against us lower income folk.....and they can hide behind the environment excuse and the horrors of a t shirt shop.  Sad.

Its an awfully big stretch to relate a moratorium on cruise ships to discrimination. Sorry, but your post is full of misguided emotion. 

[Rotterdam]

13 hours ago, Roz said:

@rkacruiser, I've visited Dayton many times, and really enjoyed the Air Force Museum.  Didn't make my annual trip to Dayton in 2020 due to Covid.  

 

I agree there needs to be a balance between tourism and quality of life for residents.  I just don't want to see travel become what it used to be, something only the well off could afford to experience.

This isn't medical care we are talking about.  How people spend their discretionary income is a personal choice.

 

[Rotterdam]

11 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Its an awfully big stretch to relate a moratorium on cruise ships to discrimination. Sorry, but your post is full of misguided emotion. 

WELL SAID Aquahound🤗

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, Rotterdam said:

This isn't medical care we are talking about.  How people spend their discretionary income is a personal choice.

 

I am unsure as to what you mean by this post in response to Roz.  Do you disagree that the balance between quality of life for residents of a port and tourism is unimportant?  

 

Mentioning the issue of medical care confuses me.  What's your point?  

[Rotterdam]

18 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I am unsure as to what you mean by this post in response to Roz.  Do you disagree that the balance between quality of life for residents of a port and tourism is unimportant?  

 

Mentioning the issue of medical care confuses me.  What's your point?  

I believe the residents of the port have priority as to whether a ship can dock in their town or not.

As far as the Medical Care statement,  the other poster stated it's not fair for a vacation / holiday to be probative due to the cost.  Vacations are a personal choice NOT A NECESSITY. To suggest someone is being denied a holiday is quite dramatic & ridiculous.

No one should be denied medical care no matter their economic situation.

A vacation is totally different.

Options are available to visit key west & other destinations but surely the comment:

 I just dont want to see travel become what it use to be, something only the wealthy can  afford to experience.

[Aquahound]

38 minutes ago, Rotterdam said:

As far as the Medical Care statement,  the other poster stated it's not fair for a vacation / holiday to be probative due to the cost. 

 

Speaking of medical care, I mentioned this in another thread as well.  Tourists need to understand that there are only about 150 beds combined in the 3 hospitals throughout the Keys.  News articles mention environmental concerns a lot when reporting this vote but not many (if any) reported that COVID had a lot to do with the way locals voted as well.  The media-fueled stigma of COVID on cruise ships frightened a lot of people.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Aquahound

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Speaking of medical care, I mentioned this in another thread as well.  Tourists need to understand that there are only about 150 beds combined in the 3 hospitals throughout the Keys.  News articles mention environmental concerns a lot when reporting this vote but not many (if any) reported that COVID had a lot to do with the way locals voted as well.  The media-fueled stigma of COVID on cruise ships frightened a lot of people.

When we were in KW (just left yesterday) we questioned lots of folks we met about the vote.  Several told us COVID played a big part but that was because some of the anti-cruise groups pushed the idea that cruisers brought diseases ashore.  They only had to mention the Diamond Princess to get some credibility.  I cannot help but wonder if the Diamond Princess incident has dug a very deep hole for the cruise industry.

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, Rotterdam said:

No one should be denied medical care no matter their economic situation.

A vacation is totally different.

 

Thanks for responding to my post.  I agree with your comment.  Vacations are not a necessity.  Good medical care is.  Or ought to be.  

 

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I cannot help but wonder if the Diamond Princess incident has dug a very deep hole for the cruise industry.

 

I have wondered as well if the Diamond Princess incident coupled with the Zaandam's as well as others will be a "gift that keeps on giving" for some time for the cruise industry.  IMO, the reaction of the governments that played a role in all of these incidents have a degree of responsibility.  Their lack of a humanitarian response to innocents on all of these ships is difficult for me to excuse.  

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

 I cannot help but wonder if the Diamond Princess incident has dug a very deep hole for the cruise industry.

 

 

Yes, it did.  the news surrounding Diamond Princess and Zaandam did a lot of damage and KW is just one place where it really shows in the minds of voters.  It's very unfortunate, but I think we're all seeing how these news outlets can influence opinions.  It's getting scary.  😢

[cat shepard]

Just to illustrate how serious Key West is about protecting its citizens - their law enforcement personnel actually remind folk to put on their masks. I may have seen 5 people without masks on during my entire visit. And waiters, waitresses & store personnel all had them on. Even the captain of our boat had one on until we reached open waters.

 

The one place in the Keys where many folk were not wearing masks was Pennekamp State Park in Key Largo, but people are outside doing water activities, so it did not seem to be as important there. 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

I think we're all seeing how these news outlets can influence opinions.  It's getting scary.  😢

 

Is it the news outlets of whatever one may think whatever their political persuasion may or may not be at fault?  I think not.  What was happening to the guests on all of the ships affected were properly reported, IMO.  

[Aquahound]

7 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Is it the news outlets of whatever one may think whatever their political persuasion may or may not be at fault?  I think not.  What was happening to the guests on all of the ships affected were properly reported, IMO.  

 

I'm not talking politics.  I'm talking all subjects.  To people who know very little about the cruise industry and only know what's told to them through the news, many think cruise ships are floating petri dishes.  

 

Anyone who thinks the news is totally factual, unbiased and non sensationalist these days has their head in the sand.  

Edited December 6, 2020 by Aquahound

[rkacruiser]

5 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

To people who know very little about the cruise industry and only know what's told to them through the news, many think cruise ships are floating petri dishes.  

 

That will be one of the issues that the cruise industry will have to somehow positively address.  

 

6 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

Anyone who thinks the news is totally factual, unbiased and non sensationalist these days has their head in the sand.  

 

My "head is not in the sand" and I hope you don't think that it is.  

[Aquahound]

1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:

 

My "head is not in the sand" and I hope you don't think that it is.  

 

No, sorry, going back and reading it, I realize it looks like that comment was directed you.  That wasn't my intent. It was meant to be a general comment.  

 

 

[ontheweb]

18 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

I'm not talking politics.  I'm talking all subjects.  To people who know very little about the cruise industry and only know what's told to them through the news, many think cruise ships are floating petri dishes.  

 

Anyone who thinks the news is totally factual, unbiased and non sensationalist these days has their head in the sand.  

If I am not mistaken, it was Dr. Fauci who kept repeating the line about cruises being floating petri dishes. Whatever one thinks of the various news outlets, they do like to sensationalize and like sound bytes. And that was a sensational sound byte.

 

Much of the problem of the news is that we as an audience want simple answers and not explanations of complex situations.

[nocl]

On 12/3/2020 at 4:42 PM, rkacruiser said:

The good people made a decision that leads to people of goodwill to have different views about that decision.

 

I live in a community that is home to the National Museum of the Air Force.  It has been the site for several years of the First Four of the NCAA Basketball Tournament and many additional annual events.  Those all have been seriously missed from an economic standpoint because of the pandemic.  As the crossroad for I-70 and I-75, how many visitors have not patronized our local businesses this year?  

 

 

Like Nashville, this is Dayton.  We may get the benefit of some "high rollers" during some events, such as the First Four.  Nashville probably gets the same benefit from times because of their music scene and their professional sports team.

 

Our "bread and butter" are those visitors that have dollars to spend.  Why is Key West any different?  Do those of us who pay admissions to visit the Hemingway House, to take a Trolley Tour, to buy a slice of a Key Lime Pie at their shop, etc. make no difference?  

 

I have said on this Forum that I am also very aware of the importance of protecting the marine environment, i.e. the coral reefs.  These MUST be protected as well as possible.  

 

We have failed to find the proper balance between tourism and the environment.  This is true and not only in Key West.

 

Let the large cruise ship ban take place.  Let's see what the future will hold for the small businesses that have existed in the Conch Republic.  

Imagine Dayton if every day you had 30,000 (Key Wests cruise ship traffic adjusted for the larger size of Dayton) people descend on a relatively small part of town (a few square blocks of down town). Each spending very little, but making it very difficult for locals to visit that area. And have that occur day after day for months

[Roz]

2 minutes ago, nocl said:

Imagine Dayton if every day you had 30,000 (Key Wests cruise ship traffic adjusted for the larger size of Dayton) people descend on a relatively small part of town (a few square blocks of down town). Each spending very little, but making it very difficult for locals to visit that area. And have that occur day after day for months

 

What you've described is pretty much what I experienced as a downtown Nashville office worker pre-Covid.  So many tourists the bus home couldn't make it thru the downtown intersections.  

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, cat shepard said:

Just to illustrate how serious Key West is about protecting its citizens - their law enforcement personnel actually remind folk to put on their masks. I may have seen 5 people without masks on during my entire visit. And waiters, waitresses & store personnel all had them on. Even the captain of our boat had one on until we reached open waters.

 

The one place in the Keys where many folk were not wearing masks was Pennekamp State Park in Key Largo, but people are outside doing water activities, so it did not seem to be as important there. 

The news this week in Key West was that Cheryl Hollen Cates, former first lady of KW for about a decade and wife of a current County Commissioner dies of COVID.  Mrs. Cates was quite popular with locals and we met folks who were shocked.  This is the kind of thing that increases awareness in a city.  That being said, we did see quite a few folks ignoring the latest order to wear masks when in most outdoor places including just walking along the sidewalk.  But inside stores and restaurants we did notice nearly 100% mask compliance.  We were also surprised to find our hotel (a small high end adult only all suites place) had a decent occupancy rate.  And a couple of the restaurants (always popular with locals) we went to for dinner were doing a very good business.  One restaurant manager told us that business had been good during Thanksgiving week and they were very optimistic about the upcoming high season.   I think the regular visitors to Key West are not going to let COVID keep them away.  And unlike much of the country, Key West is open for business.

 

We are now in Ft Myers Beach for a few days where things are not going nearly as well.  Hotels are pretty empty (as is the beach) and many bars/restaurants are hurting...even though just about everything is open.   That being said, we went to an excellent chef owned restaurant for dinner tonight and it was near full.   But a popular beach bar near our hotel has been closing at 8pm because business is awful (and this bar has outdoor areas where social distancing is easy).  Times are tough all over.  But Florida is relying more on folks using common sense then politicians issuing dictator-like close orders.

 

Hank