MV Schiedyk

[Seacruise]

I was stationed at CFB Comox the morning the call came into Comox to scramble all available aircraft.

I can tell you that when the crews returned and talked in the mess to my fellow pilots it soon became apparent how they had just pulled one of the greatest rescues of all time. No loss of life!

Captain Gary Flath did some thing that day that is still talked about today. Captain Flath was getting low on fuel and talked to the Flight Engineer on board to calculate the fuel to the second and time to return to land. The reason was they were getting down to the last couple of crew in the lifeboat and Gary knew if he left that when he returned the crew would not be in the lifeboat due to sea state.
Gary made that very last hoist and returned to Yakutat, Alaska.

Here is how the Chief of Defence Staff Unit Commendation for outstanding devotion to duty read:

 

On 4 October, 1980, 442 Squadron participated in an operation that gained it the international attention it still enjoys today. When the liner Prinsendam caught fire in the Gulf of Alaska, the 442 Squadron's Labradors and Buffalo were quick to react. The second Labrador on scene was commanded by Captain Gary Flath. Under Gary's guidance, the crew of "Rescue 303" hoisted 16 passengers from a lifeboat and transported them to the oil tanker MV Williamsburg. The Labrador crew repeated the operation three times before being forced to return to Yakutat, Alaska, for fuel. When they landed, their fuel gauges read empty; at the end of the runway their engine flamed out. The squadron was awarded the Chief of Defence Staff Unit Commendation for outstanding devotion to duty.

Now if you think this was amazing or stupid Captain Flath was awarded the Star of Courage for another rescue a few weeks later where he rescued the crew of a US Coast Guard helicopter that were trying to rescue some injured hikers in Washington state by Mt. Baker. The chopper contacted the rock face and crashed injuring those onboard.
Captain Flath just happened to be returning from a search in the interior of lower BC when he heard the call. Just a few minutes away flying he went to the rescue. He hovered his Labrador stern into the wall keeping the rotor blade just a few feet from the wall. The rescue was made and Captain Flath and his crew returned to Comox.
Upon landing his crew promptly told him that was the last flight they would ever fly with him. I guess they figured that two rescues like this was too many and the next may not be so lucky.
Captain Flath soon retired and went onto flying corporate jets.

A few years later (1983) I sailed on the second voyage of the brand new Nieuw Amsterdam and her fire. I was back onboard 6 months later and had a Table Steward for the 2 weeks who we met on the first cruise. Somehow we got to talking about his past ships and how he was on that ill fated Prinsendam Fire. How spooky does this get when he tells us that he was the LAST crew member in that lifeboat that was hoisted onboard the Lab.  I later provided him with the story and photo below.

In the attached photo a Voyageur helicopter from 442 Search and Rescue Squadron
Comox BC lowers a Para Rescue Tech into the lifeboat.

[KirkNC]

6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Try this one! It's a good account by one of her deck officers, involved from the beginning and later going back onboard, with the captain and others, in an attempt to salvage her which was unsuccessful 

 

Thanks, I will see if I can find it.

[TiogaCruiser]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

Thanks, I will see if I can find it.

Try eBay. There’s at least 1 there now. I’m not sure if it was republished as there have been multiple copies at one time.

 

 I totally agree on the writing of Burning Cold. Excellent material but the organization and writing had a lot to be desired.

[Copper10-8]

3 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Try eBay. There’s at least 1 there now. I’m not sure if it was republished as there have been multiple copies at one time.

 

 I totally agree on the writing of Burning Cold. Excellent material but the organization and writing had a lot to be desired.

 

Not republished, it only came out in 2019

 

Another recent good one, written by Stephen Corcoran, the operations officer on the USCG cutter Boutwell, one of the ships which came to Prinsendam I's aid. It's called "None were lost, the Prinsendam fire and rescue" and goes in-depth into the assets and resources used in the actual rescue and the rescue itself by the USAF (71 ARRS from Anchorage's Elmendorf AFB, AK), USCG (RCC Juneau, RCC Kodiak, the cutters Boutwell (Juneau, AK), Woodrush (Sitka, AK) and Mellon (Seattle, WA), CGAS Sitka and CGAS Kodiak, AK), RCAF/Canadian Forces (RCC Victoria, BC, No. 442 Sqn and No. 407 Sqns, CFB Comox, Vancouver Island, BC) and civilian shipping

 

[Hlitner]

Enjoying the history lesson as we knew very little about HAL Cargo operations.  It would be interesting to know if anything about the potential liability from the sinking was covered in the legal documents when CCL bought HAL.  I am going to guess that HAL only bought the cruise part of HAL and would now claim they have no liability related to cargo ships/operations before CCL's purchase of HAL.  If there is nothing left of the old HAL then the Canadian government might be shouting (to use a nice term) into the wind to get any compensation for any damage/mitigation related to the current problem.

 

Hank

[rafinmd]

I think I remember that post Carnival people have gotten Mariner standing for dyk voyages.  I wonder if that could set a precedent for current liability.

 

Roy

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Enjoying the history lesson as we knew very little about HAL Cargo operations.  It would be interesting to know if anything about the potential liability from the sinking was covered in the legal documents when CCL bought HAL.  I am going to guess that HAL only bought the cruise part of HAL and would now claim they have no liability related to cargo ships/operations before CCL's purchase of HAL.  If there is nothing left of the old HAL then the Canadian government might be shouting (to use a nice term) into the wind to get any compensation for any damage/mitigation related to the current problem.

 

Hank

HAL sold their cargo operations in 1973.  However, since HAL was the registered owner of the ship when it sank in 1968, they, their successors and assigns, are still legally liable for removing the wreck.

[Hlitner]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

HAL sold their cargo operations in 1973.  However, since HAL was the registered owner of the ship when it sank in 1968, they, their successors and assigns, are still legally liable for removing the wreck.

Interesting.  One can only imagine how many lifetimes it will take to settle if the Canadian government decides to go after their successors.  Have you any idea who bought the Cargo Division in 73?  I am assuming they might still be on the hook for damages (based on what you have posted) if they even exist.   I guess the question now is whether the Canadian government will try to find a way to contain the leak or it will just be one more wreck continuing to leak bunker until it is all gone.

 

Hank

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Interesting.  One can only imagine how many lifetimes it will take to settle if the Canadian government decides to go after their successors.  Have you any idea who bought the Cargo Division in 73?  I am assuming they might still be on the hook for damages (based on what you have posted) if they even exist.   I guess the question now is whether the Canadian government will try to find a way to contain the leak or it will just be one more wreck continuing to leak bunker until it is all gone.

 

Hank

No idea who bought the cargo operations, most likely it went to one of the joint ventures that HAL used for their cargo ships at the time.  Since HAL itself is still in existence, there is no successor, and since the wreck was not sold to the new cargo operation owners, HAL is still the sole owner of the wreck.

 

Any effort to "contain" the leak will only postpone the inevitable, as the ship continues to disintegrate.  The only reason the Titanic has not leaked oil is that she used coal, which is liberally sprinkled across the sea bed.  The only way to eliminate the potential damage is to pump the fuel out.

[rkacruiser]

15 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Try this one! It's a good account by one of her deck officers, involved from the beginning and later going back onboard, with the captain and others, in an attempt to salvage her which was unsuccessful 

 

 

I have this book and it is an excellent read.  

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

Another recent good one, written by Stephen Corcoran, the operations officer on the USCG cutter Boutwell, one of the ships which came to Prinsendam I's aid. It's called "None were lost, the Prinsendam fire and rescue"

 

I have read this book as well and it is also an excellent account.  Quite detailed; yet, very interesting.  

[rkacruiser]

14 hours ago, Seacruise said:

In the attached photo a Voyageur helicopter from 442 Search and Rescue Squadron
Comox BC lowers a Para Rescue Tech into the lifeboat.

 

What was accomplished during those hours when the Prinsendam's guests and crew were rescued is nothing short of a miracle in my opinion.  None Were Lost surely had the potential to turn out so much differently.  

 

All involved in this rescue effort need to be remembered for what they accomplished.  

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

No idea who bought the cargo operations, most likely it went to one of the joint ventures that HAL used for their cargo ships at the time.  Since HAL itself is still in existence, there is no successor, and since the wreck was not sold to the new cargo operation owners, HAL is still the sole owner of the wreck..................

 

HAL's cargo operation, at the time known as the Transport Division and concentrated in a subsidiary called Scheepvaart Maatschappij Trans Oceaan, B.V., Rotterdam (Shipping Company Trans Ocean, Ltd based out of Rotterdam), was sold on 31 May 1974 to the Swedish Broestrom Group. The official handover took place on 31 December 1974 and Broestrom continued the activities under the name Intercontinental Transport (ICT) with the cargo ships remaining Dutch-flagged 

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

HAL's cargo operation, at the time known as the Transport Division and concentrated in a subsidiary called Scheepvaart Maatschappij Trans Oceaan, B.V., Rotterdam (Shipping Company Trans Ocean, Ltd based out of Rotterdam), was sold on 31 May 1974 to the Swedish Broestrom Group. The official handover took place on 31 December 1974 and Broestrom continued the activities under the name Intercontinental Transport (ICT) with the cargo ships remaining Dutch-flagged 

Thanks for posting.  Just like a "copper" to dig for the information and find the info..  I did a quick search and came up with nothing :).  But it sounds like CCL and HAL are off the hook.

 

na

[Hlitner]

Just now, Hlitner said:

Thanks for posting.  Just like a "copper" to dig for the information and find the info..  I did a quick search and came up with nothing :).  But it sounds like CCL and HAL are off the hook.

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Thanks for posting.  Just like a "copper" to dig for the information and find the info..  I did a quick search and came up with nothing :).  But it sounds like CCL and HAL are off the hook.

 

na

It all depends on when the "subsidiary" was formed, what the terms of the incorporation of the subsidiary were, and who the actual owner of the ship was.  Typically, ships are owned by shell corporations owning one or two ships, that reside under the parent corporation, for liability reasons.  So, whether the "subsidiary" was the  owner or merely the operator of the ships, with the parent HAL retaining ownership is a big question.  

[USN59-79]

If the ship is only 360-400 feet below the surface it should not be extremely difficult for divers to reach her to attach some type of extraction hose.  Since she was sailing from Seattle to London and only got to Vancouver Island, she should have full fuel tanks.  And since she was converted to diesel in 1960, the fuel should be that, not the typical black oil of a ship that old.  I think it is just a matter of a company or government deciding to act now before it is too late.

[Hlitner]

21 minutes ago, USN59-79 said:

If the ship is only 360-400 feet below the surface it should not be extremely difficult for divers to reach her to attach some type of extraction hose.  Since she was sailing from Seattle to London and only got to Vancouver Island, she should have full fuel tanks.  And since she was converted to diesel in 1960, the fuel should be that, not the typical black oil of a ship that old.  I think it is just a matter of a company or government deciding to act now before it is too late.

I will let you ole engineers figure out the process.  I guess if it is diesel vs bunker it is easier to pump.  I was thinking in terms of thick bunker crude sitting in very cold water for 50 years.  I assume that stuff would be like trying to pump old molasses without the ability to heat it prior to removal.  I wonder if the Canadian government will simply ignore the issue and hope it just floats away (literally).   It makes me curious as to how many wrecks there are around the world leaching oil into the sea.  On the other hand you probably have some vents naturally leaching oil into the sea.  Environmentalists do not want to hear it, but even nature can be pretty dirty.  Just consider the amount of CO2 blown into the atmosphere by a volcano and naturally occurring forest fires. 

 

Hank

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, USN59-79 said:

If the ship is only 360-400 feet below the surface it should not be extremely difficult for divers to reach her to attach some type of extraction hose.  Since she was sailing from Seattle to London and only got to Vancouver Island, she should have full fuel tanks.  And since she was converted to diesel in 1960, the fuel should be that, not the typical black oil of a ship that old.  I think it is just a matter of a company or government deciding to act now before it is too late.

Diesel engines like what was installed in this ship burned, and continue to burn to this day, residual fuel, or "black oil".  One problem with extracting the oil is going to be keeping the corroded tanks from collapsing during the pump out, so they will need to pump water into the tanks while they are pumping the oil out.  Also, since this is residual fuel, and it is cold, and the lighter ends will have separated out and likely already have leaked out, this fuel has a pour point (the temperature where it will flow without heating) of 30*C.  At present, it is about 15*C where the ship lies, and the oil has separated, so it will be very similar to molasses to pump, without heating.  So, you would need steam lines down to heat the oil before pumping.

[chengkp75]

33 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 It makes me curious as to how many wrecks there are around the world leaching oil into the sea.

It is estimated that there are about 8500 potentially polluting wrecks in the world, holding potentially 20 million tons of fuel.

[TiogaCruiser]

5 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Not republished, it only came out in 2019

 

 

 

Thanks. 
 

Several copies suddenly showed up in multiple listings on my EBay searches about a year and a half ago. They looked like they were posted by same seller. (That was after having had P’Dam as a saved search for several years.)

[Hlitner]

52 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It is estimated that there are about 8500 potentially polluting wrecks in the world, holding potentially 20 million tons of fuel.

Ouch.  I guess that does not make environmentalists happy.

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Thanks. 
 

Several copies suddenly showed up in multiple listings on my EBay searches about a year and a half ago. They looked like they were posted by same seller. (That was after having had P’Dam as a saved search for several years.)

 

Well then you are prob right and I sit corrected, as usual 😉 The copy I have has a date of 2019 and so I thought that was a first issue since I had never seen this excellent book appear on the scene before

 

Take care and be safe! Tough times in our state at the moment!

[cccole]

Seacruise - Thank you for your post (#51).  What an amazing report.  When you are asked who you would invite to a small dinner I imagine that Captain Flath would be a person on the top of the list.  Thanks again, Cherie 

[USN59-79]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Diesel engines like what was installed in this ship burned, and continue to burn to this day, residual fuel, or "black oil".  One problem with extracting the oil is going to be keeping the corroded tanks from collapsing during the pump out, so they will need to pump water into the tanks while they are pumping the oil out.  Also, since this is residual fuel, and it is cold, and the lighter ends will have separated out and likely already have leaked out, this fuel has a pour point (the temperature where it will flow without heating) of 30*C.  At present, it is about 15*C where the ship lies, and the oil has separated, so it will be very similar to molasses to pump, without heating.  So, you would need steam lines down to heat the oil before pumping.

Thank you sir, for the clarification.