Will HAL sell Volendam & Zaandam?

[Mickb]

Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19.

I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame.

[VMax1700]

8 minutes ago, Mickb said:

Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19.

I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame.

Well Volendam and Zaandam are parked up handy if Fred Olsen were to make an offer.

[foodsvcmgr]

They seem to still have a purpose in the fleet handling itineraries that the larger ships are not suited for.

So if they were sold I think it would have to be for a much higher price than the near scrap value, no payments for two years type deal that Rotterdam went for.

[KirkNC]

I guess I would ask who would buy them and the prices would be very low.

[Roz]

Zaandam is schedule to do the 2022 WC, so I wonder what ship HAL would use if they sold it?

[Sir PMP]

2 hours ago, Mickb said:

Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19.

I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame.

I would say there is a good chance that this might happen..

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Yes 4 ships are leaving CCL lets not forget    ( 9 brands )

Cruise line	Parent company	Passengers (thousands)[7]	Revenue (US$ millions)[7]	Passengers %	Revenue %
Carnival Corporation & plc		12,302.30	18,305.16	47.4%	39.4%
Carnival Cruise Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	5,716.5	4,166.89	22%	8.9%
Princess Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,667.5	4,228.85	6.4%	9.1%
Costa Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,560.6	2,235.62	6%	4.8%
AIDA Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,183.7	2,128.28	4.6%	4.6%
Holland America Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	831.5	2,589.60	3.2%	5.6%
P&O Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	623.4	1,031.85	2.4%	2.2%
P&O Cruises Australia	Carnival Corporation & plc	499.6	548.02	1.9%	1.2%
Cunard Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	169.6	823.79	0.7%	1.8%
Seabourn Cruise Line

Edited January 11, 2021 by Gail & Marty sailing away

[Roz]

So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them?

[Himself]

I would hope that HAL would keep both of them..

[Sir PMP]

13 minutes ago, Roz said:

So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them?

If this closure keeps dragging on, I am afraid Hal might not survive..

[Himself]

8 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

If this closure keeps dragging on, I am afraid Hal might not survive..

I have thought the same thing.  

[kevingastreich]

9 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

If this closure keeps dragging on, I am afraid Hal might not survive..

The history of Holland America Line is quite interesting. They have survived and even thrived, in much worse circumstances than these.  It is quite the story.

[iancal]

I believe that it will come down to the past profitability of each ship, any projected capital expenditures required over the next few years on each of the ships under consideration, and the marketing direction of the cruise line. 

 

Who really knows...except the bean counters and senior corporate execs who probably have a prioritized short list on their respective desks.

 

 

[YXU AC*SE]

18 of the 19 were previously announced in CCL's Q3 reporting,. So we are talking a single hull, not four.     Scott. 

 

(source: https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/carnival-corporation-plc-reports-summary-third-quarter-results _ )

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by YXU AC*SE

[Sir PMP]

35 minutes ago, Himself said:

I have thought the same thing.  

Yes, father, and tomorrow a lot of officers will be laid off, it's sad..

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Roz said:

So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them?

 

The Grand World Voyages will be a cruise offering of the past for some time if these two ships leave the fleet.  That's my expectations.  In the past, some of the Grand World Voyages were "easy" for them to fill.  Others, not so much.  In the "new day of cruising that we all hope is approaching", filling a larger ship may be quite challenging.  The first voyages?  Maybe not so difficult.  There seems to be a significant pent-up demand.  But, afterwards?  

 

48 minutes ago, kevingastreich said:

The history of Holland America Line is quite interesting. They have survived and even thrived, in much worse circumstances than these.  It is quite the story.

 

Indeed, it is.  And, that is a reason why I think HAL will survive.  Somehow, the adversity that the Company faced was overcome.  

 

However, I cannot help think for HAL to survive, its Corporate parent may need to shed some brands for the Corporation to survive.  Wasn't HAL Mr. Arison's initial acquisition to CCL?  The acquisition of HAL fulfilled Mr. Arison's Tiffany Project plans at that time.  Now, easily discarded?  I wonder.  I hope not.  

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, YXU AC*SE said:

18 of the 19 were previously announced in CCL's Q3 reporting,. So we are talking a single hull, not four.     Scott. 

 

(source: https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/carnival-corporation-plc-reports-summary-third-quarter-results _ )

 

It’s still four un-named ships. Fifteen are gone, four remain.

Edited January 12, 2021 by KirkNC

[DeeDee Groff]

4 hours ago, Roz said:

Zaandam is schedule to do the 2022 WC, so I wonder what ship HAL would use if they sold it?

 

Zaandam is also scheduled for the Grand Africa Voyage sailing RT from Fort Lauderdale on October 10, 2022.  I just received emails on Friday confirming all the previous arrangements, and I am finding it quite a challenge to believe this will be the third consecutive GAV I will have had cancelled!

[Copper10-8]

6 hours ago, Mickb said:

Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19.

I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame.

 

 

If 

 

 

yes, If not, I see them in the fleet for another couple of years

 

 

[Sue from Canada]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

If 

 

 

yes, If not, I see them in the fleet for another couple of years

 

 

Well now I'm afraid to book either one of them.  I've had it with cancelled cruises and waiting to get ones money back.

 

[NJCruiserBoy]

13 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

Yes 4 ships are leaving CCL lets not forget    ( 9 brands )

Cruise line	Parent company	Passengers (thousands)[7]	Revenue (US$ millions)[7]	Passengers %	Revenue %
Carnival Corporation & plc		12,302.30	18,305.16	47.4%	39.4%
Carnival Cruise Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	5,716.5	4,166.89	22%	8.9%
Princess Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,667.5	4,228.85	6.4%	9.1%
Costa Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,560.6	2,235.62	6%	4.8%
AIDA Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,183.7	2,128.28	4.6%	4.6%
Holland America Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	831.5	2,589.60	3.2%	5.6%
P&O Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	623.4	1,031.85	2.4%	2.2%
P&O Cruises Australia	Carnival Corporation & plc	499.6	548.02	1.9%	1.2%
Cunard Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	169.6	823.79	0.7%	1.8%
Seabourn Cruise Line

Gail & Marty....fascinating chart, where did you get this from?  Can you fill in the blank for us with Seabourn?   Of course revenues are one thing, profits are another.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Ship	Built	Builder	Entered service for Seabourn	Gross Tonnage	Flag	Notes	Image
Seabourn Odyssey	2009	T. Mariotti	2009–Present	32,346 tons	Bahamas
Seabourn Sojourn	2010	T. Mariotti	2010–Present	32,346 GT	Bahamas
Seabourn Quest	2011	T. Mariotti	2011–Present	32,348 GT	Bahamas
Seabourn Encore[9]	2016	Fincantieri	December 2016	41,865 GT	Bahamas	Largest ship to be built for Seabourn.
Seabourn Ovation[9]	2018	Fincantieri	May 2018	41,865 GT

[DM6045]

14 hours ago, Roz said:

So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them?

 They could easily do them with one of the Vistas as the P&O Arcadia, Cunard QV &QE and Costa Deleziosa and Luminosa are all derivatives of the Vista Class and they have done world cruises / long cruises for years very successfully. HAL would probably have to drop its prices slightly to fill them but on the flip side they would be cheaper to operate.
If anything dropping the prices on their grand voyages wouldn’t be a bad thing for attracting more Brits/ Europeans on them (I know we’re not the target market) as on average the starting price for a world cruise for us on P&O, Cunard, Fred Olsen etc... is £10,000 (r/t UK) however on HAL its usually £19,000 (plus flights) a couple we cruise regularly with is fortunate enough to do a world cruise every year and a couple of years ago they did HAL as they are one of their favourite lines but said they wouldn’t do another with them as it simply wasn’t worth nearly double the cost plus flights and luggage over Cunard or P&O etc... the only thing they preferred was the smaller ship but they could have that on Fred Olsen or P&O Aurora for a-lot less... quite a few Dutch and Germans have said very similar to me also regarding the value.

[vicd1969]

Here is a list of possible Carnival Corp ships to be sold/disposed, based on In service date (there are a few ships that are around the same vintage but have been extensively refurbished and imho are unlikely to be sold). I was a bit surprised that Costa now has a pretty modern fleet, but not sure if one of their ships scheduled to be transferred to a new Chinese joint venture line is counted in the four.

 

Carnival Ecstasy    1991

Carnival Sensation    1993

Aida AIDAcara    1996

P&O Australia Pacific Explorer    1997

Carnival Elation    1998

Carnival Paradise    1998

Grand Princess    1998

Pacific Princess    1999

HAL MS Volendendam    1999

HAL MS Zaandam    2000

P&O Aurora    2000

Costa Mediterranea    2003 (Not as old as others, but scheduled to be transferred to China joint venture in 2021)

 

While old, I don't think the Pacific Explorer will be one of the ones sold, as P&O Australia already has sold off 3 ships recently. If I had to bet, considering the new builds coming into the fleet, I'd say a couple of the Carnival ships, the Grand Princess, and who knows for the fourth. 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by vicd1969

[YXU AC*SE]

10 hours ago, KirkNC said:

It’s still four un-named ships. Fifteen are gone, four remain.

 

Is this not 17 named ships ?    

1. Rotterdam (Borealis)
2. Amsterdam (Bolette)
3. Maasdam (Aegean Myth)
4. Veendam (Aegean Majesty)
5. Pacific Aria  (Aegean Goddess)
6. Pacific Dawn (Satoshi)
7. Oceana (Queen of the Oceans)
8. Costa Victoria (scrap)
9. Costa neoRomantica (Celestyal Experience)
10. Costa Atlantica (tsf to CSSC)
11. Costa Mediterranea (tsf to CSSC)
12. Carnival Fascination (Century Harmony)
13. Carnival Imagination (scrap)
14. Carnival Fantasy (scrap)
15. Carnival Inspiration (scrap)
16. Sun Princess (Pacific World)
17. Sea Princess (Charming)
18.  A yet-unnamed Costa ship (source: CCL's Q3-2019 results call -  https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/21632-five-ships-to-leave-costa-fleet-by-may-2021.html)

 

and, if I were a betting person?  19. Perhaps AIDAcara? (1996 construction, 1200 berths)   

 

Scott.