Mickb Posted January 11, 2021 #1 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19. I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare VMax1700 Posted January 11, 2021 #2 Share Posted January 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mickb said: Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19. I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame. Well Volendam and Zaandam are parked up handy if Fred Olsen were to make an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare foodsvcmgr Posted January 11, 2021 #3 Share Posted January 11, 2021 They seem to still have a purpose in the fleet handling itineraries that the larger ships are not suited for. So if they were sold I think it would have to be for a much higher price than the near scrap value, no payments for two years type deal that Rotterdam went for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted January 11, 2021 #4 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I guess I would ask who would buy them and the prices would be very low. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Roz Posted January 11, 2021 #5 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Zaandam is schedule to do the 2022 WC, so I wonder what ship HAL would use if they sold it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted January 11, 2021 #6 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Mickb said: Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19. I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame. I would say there is a good chance that this might happen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Gail & Marty sailing away Posted January 11, 2021 #7 Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) Yes 4 ships are leaving CCL lets not forget ( 9 brands ) Cruise line Parent company Passengers (thousands)[7] Revenue (US$ millions)[7] Passengers % Revenue % Carnival Corporation & plc 12,302.30 18,305.16 47.4% 39.4% Carnival Cruise Line Carnival Corporation & plc 5,716.5 4,166.89 22% 8.9% Princess Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 1,667.5 4,228.85 6.4% 9.1% Costa Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 1,560.6 2,235.62 6% 4.8% AIDA Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 1,183.7 2,128.28 4.6% 4.6% Holland America Line Carnival Corporation & plc 831.5 2,589.60 3.2% 5.6% P&O Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 623.4 1,031.85 2.4% 2.2% P&O Cruises Australia Carnival Corporation & plc 499.6 548.02 1.9% 1.2% Cunard Line Carnival Corporation & plc 169.6 823.79 0.7% 1.8% Seabourn Cruise Line Edited January 11, 2021 by Gail & Marty sailing away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Roz Posted January 11, 2021 #8 Share Posted January 11, 2021 So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himself Posted January 11, 2021 #9 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I would hope that HAL would keep both of them.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted January 11, 2021 #10 Share Posted January 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, Roz said: So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them? If this closure keeps dragging on, I am afraid Hal might not survive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himself Posted January 12, 2021 #11 Share Posted January 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Sir PMP said: If this closure keeps dragging on, I am afraid Hal might not survive.. I have thought the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingastreich Posted January 12, 2021 #12 Share Posted January 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Sir PMP said: If this closure keeps dragging on, I am afraid Hal might not survive.. The history of Holland America Line is quite interesting. They have survived and even thrived, in much worse circumstances than these. It is quite the story. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted January 12, 2021 #13 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I believe that it will come down to the past profitability of each ship, any projected capital expenditures required over the next few years on each of the ships under consideration, and the marketing direction of the cruise line. Who really knows...except the bean counters and senior corporate execs who probably have a prioritized short list on their respective desks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YXU AC*SE Posted January 12, 2021 #14 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 18 of the 19 were previously announced in CCL's Q3 reporting,. So we are talking a single hull, not four. Scott. (source: https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/carnival-corporation-plc-reports-summary-third-quarter-results _ ) Edited January 12, 2021 by YXU AC*SE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted January 12, 2021 #15 Share Posted January 12, 2021 35 minutes ago, Himself said: I have thought the same thing. Yes, father, and tomorrow a lot of officers will be laid off, it's sad.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted January 12, 2021 #16 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Roz said: So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them? The Grand World Voyages will be a cruise offering of the past for some time if these two ships leave the fleet. That's my expectations. In the past, some of the Grand World Voyages were "easy" for them to fill. Others, not so much. In the "new day of cruising that we all hope is approaching", filling a larger ship may be quite challenging. The first voyages? Maybe not so difficult. There seems to be a significant pent-up demand. But, afterwards? 48 minutes ago, kevingastreich said: The history of Holland America Line is quite interesting. They have survived and even thrived, in much worse circumstances than these. It is quite the story. Indeed, it is. And, that is a reason why I think HAL will survive. Somehow, the adversity that the Company faced was overcome. However, I cannot help think for HAL to survive, its Corporate parent may need to shed some brands for the Corporation to survive. Wasn't HAL Mr. Arison's initial acquisition to CCL? The acquisition of HAL fulfilled Mr. Arison's Tiffany Project plans at that time. Now, easily discarded? I wonder. I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted January 12, 2021 #17 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, YXU AC*SE said: 18 of the 19 were previously announced in CCL's Q3 reporting,. So we are talking a single hull, not four. Scott. (source: https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/carnival-corporation-plc-reports-summary-third-quarter-results _ ) It’s still four un-named ships. Fifteen are gone, four remain. Edited January 12, 2021 by KirkNC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeDee Groff Posted January 12, 2021 #18 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Roz said: Zaandam is schedule to do the 2022 WC, so I wonder what ship HAL would use if they sold it? Zaandam is also scheduled for the Grand Africa Voyage sailing RT from Fort Lauderdale on October 10, 2022. I just received emails on Friday confirming all the previous arrangements, and I am finding it quite a challenge to believe this will be the third consecutive GAV I will have had cancelled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Copper10-8 Posted January 12, 2021 #19 Share Posted January 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Mickb said: Carnival today reported that they intend to sell 4 more ships bringing their total disposals to 19. I suppose that some the older AIDa ships may be in the frame but Volendam and Zaandam must be vulnerable - they are more or less the same age and capacity as the Rotterdam and Amsterdam . It would be a shame. If yes, If not, I see them in the fleet for another couple of years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue from Canada Posted January 12, 2021 #20 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said: If yes, If not, I see them in the fleet for another couple of years Well now I'm afraid to book either one of them. I've had it with cancelled cruises and waiting to get ones money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCruiserBoy Posted January 12, 2021 #21 Share Posted January 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said: Yes 4 ships are leaving CCL lets not forget ( 9 brands ) Cruise line Parent company Passengers (thousands)[7] Revenue (US$ millions)[7] Passengers % Revenue % Carnival Corporation & plc 12,302.30 18,305.16 47.4% 39.4% Carnival Cruise Line Carnival Corporation & plc 5,716.5 4,166.89 22% 8.9% Princess Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 1,667.5 4,228.85 6.4% 9.1% Costa Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 1,560.6 2,235.62 6% 4.8% AIDA Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 1,183.7 2,128.28 4.6% 4.6% Holland America Line Carnival Corporation & plc 831.5 2,589.60 3.2% 5.6% P&O Cruises Carnival Corporation & plc 623.4 1,031.85 2.4% 2.2% P&O Cruises Australia Carnival Corporation & plc 499.6 548.02 1.9% 1.2% Cunard Line Carnival Corporation & plc 169.6 823.79 0.7% 1.8% Seabourn Cruise Line Gail & Marty....fascinating chart, where did you get this from? Can you fill in the blank for us with Seabourn? Of course revenues are one thing, profits are another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Gail & Marty sailing away Posted January 12, 2021 #22 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Ship Built Builder Entered service for Seabourn Gross Tonnage Flag Notes Image Seabourn Odyssey 2009 T. Mariotti 2009–Present 32,346 tons Bahamas Seabourn Sojourn 2010 T. Mariotti 2010–Present 32,346 GT Bahamas Seabourn Quest 2011 T. Mariotti 2011–Present 32,348 GT Bahamas Seabourn Encore[9] 2016 Fincantieri December 2016 41,865 GT Bahamas Largest ship to be built for Seabourn. Seabourn Ovation[9] 2018 Fincantieri May 2018 41,865 GT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM6045 Posted January 12, 2021 #23 Share Posted January 12, 2021 14 hours ago, Roz said: So back to my question - if Zaandam and Volendam are gone, which ships will do the longer itineraries, or will HAL just quit doing them? They could easily do them with one of the Vistas as the P&O Arcadia, Cunard QV &QE and Costa Deleziosa and Luminosa are all derivatives of the Vista Class and they have done world cruises / long cruises for years very successfully. HAL would probably have to drop its prices slightly to fill them but on the flip side they would be cheaper to operate. If anything dropping the prices on their grand voyages wouldn’t be a bad thing for attracting more Brits/ Europeans on them (I know we’re not the target market) as on average the starting price for a world cruise for us on P&O, Cunard, Fred Olsen etc... is £10,000 (r/t UK) however on HAL its usually £19,000 (plus flights) a couple we cruise regularly with is fortunate enough to do a world cruise every year and a couple of years ago they did HAL as they are one of their favourite lines but said they wouldn’t do another with them as it simply wasn’t worth nearly double the cost plus flights and luggage over Cunard or P&O etc... the only thing they preferred was the smaller ship but they could have that on Fred Olsen or P&O Aurora for a-lot less... quite a few Dutch and Germans have said very similar to me also regarding the value. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicd1969 Posted January 12, 2021 #24 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) Here is a list of possible Carnival Corp ships to be sold/disposed, based on In service date (there are a few ships that are around the same vintage but have been extensively refurbished and imho are unlikely to be sold). I was a bit surprised that Costa now has a pretty modern fleet, but not sure if one of their ships scheduled to be transferred to a new Chinese joint venture line is counted in the four. Carnival Ecstasy 1991 Carnival Sensation 1993 Aida AIDAcara 1996 P&O Australia Pacific Explorer 1997 Carnival Elation 1998 Carnival Paradise 1998 Grand Princess 1998 Pacific Princess 1999 HAL MS Volendendam 1999 HAL MS Zaandam 2000 P&O Aurora 2000 Costa Mediterranea 2003 (Not as old as others, but scheduled to be transferred to China joint venture in 2021) While old, I don't think the Pacific Explorer will be one of the ones sold, as P&O Australia already has sold off 3 ships recently. If I had to bet, considering the new builds coming into the fleet, I'd say a couple of the Carnival ships, the Grand Princess, and who knows for the fourth. Edited January 12, 2021 by vicd1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YXU AC*SE Posted January 12, 2021 #25 Share Posted January 12, 2021 10 hours ago, KirkNC said: It’s still four un-named ships. Fifteen are gone, four remain. Is this not 17 named ships ? Rotterdam (Borealis) Amsterdam (Bolette) Maasdam (Aegean Myth) Veendam (Aegean Majesty) Pacific Aria (Aegean Goddess) Pacific Dawn (Satoshi) Oceana (Queen of the Oceans) Costa Victoria (scrap) Costa neoRomantica (Celestyal Experience) Costa Atlantica (tsf to CSSC) Costa Mediterranea (tsf to CSSC) Carnival Fascination (Century Harmony) Carnival Imagination (scrap) Carnival Fantasy (scrap) Carnival Inspiration (scrap) Sun Princess (Pacific World) Sea Princess (Charming) A yet-unnamed Costa ship (source: CCL's Q3-2019 results call - https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/21632-five-ships-to-leave-costa-fleet-by-may-2021.html) and, if I were a betting person? 19. Perhaps AIDAcara? (1996 construction, 1200 berths) Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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