Florida governor signs executive order that bans mandated use of Covid-19 vaccine passports

[EasyGoingGuy]

I guess the way I see it is that every supermarket, form of transportation, and ...well pretty much everything is operating in some form and no government agency, Federal or otherwise, is requiring a Covid vaccine passport for them to operate, and I see nothing indicating that that will change.  So I see all of the straw man arguments as sort of pointless.  The only industry that is completely shut down, and the only industry that pretty much anyone sees as requiring this passport thing is ... cruising (and that's why I started this post on a cruising forum with an article about the governor of a state that has a large (very large) cruise industry.  As many have said, on this and other forums, we have been required to be inoculated against various diseases, and produce proof, to cruise in the past.  I believe this is completely a safety issue and nothing more insideous. 

[Daniel A]

5 minutes ago, EasyGoingGuy said:

I guess the way I see it is that every supermarket, form of transportation, and ...well pretty much everything is operating in some form and no government agency, Federal or otherwise, is requiring a Covid vaccine passport for them to operate, and I see nothing indicating that that will change.  So I see all of the straw man arguments as sort of pointless.  The only industry that is completely shut down, and the only industry that pretty much anyone sees as requiring this passport thing is ... cruising

Recently, the Federal Government has issued a mandate to wear a mask in an Uber, train, bus, plane, and for the entire length of a cruise on a currently allowed cruise line (including while in your cabin).  Are you sure the Federal Government won't go further in requiring vaccine mandates?  We just cancelled a train/bus tour to Yellowstone and beyond because now there is a mandate to wear a mask 24/7 during the entire 11 day trip - regardless of vaccination status.  I'd rather not take the trip then needing to spend a few years in Leavenworth.  BTW, the Federal Government made those mandates without the consent of our elected representatives.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

17 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

......Are you sure the Federal Government won't go further in requiring vaccine mandates?.....

Let’s hope they do so we don’t have to worry about Covid transmission from the selfish people who could care less about the health of others.

[Shawnino]

This week the Sixth Circuit smacked down the CDC's request for an emergency stay on a District Court ruling that said the CDC could not halt evictions. So gar, ScOTUS has not taken this up on Shadow Docket.

 

Given the makeup of SCOTUS one gets the sense that the US federal government will have rather limited say in all this.

[PaulMCO]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Recently, the Federal Government has issued a mandate to wear a mask in an Uber, train, bus, plane, and for the entire length of a cruise on a currently allowed cruise line (including while in your cabin).  Are you sure the Federal Government won't go further in requiring vaccine mandates?  We just cancelled a train/bus tour to Yellowstone and beyond because now there is a mandate to wear a mask 24/7 during the entire 11 day trip - regardless of vaccination status.  I'd rather not take the trip then needing to spend a few years in Leavenworth.  BTW, the Federal Government made those mandates without the consent of our elected representatives.  

Now you are getting to the Governors point.  As much as I do not like the Governor (even though voted for him - the other guy was a criminal), he is marking his territory.  Yes the Federals can mandate bus, train, air, and national parks because that is their mandate and they regulate those bodies (Uber is a stretch).  They do not  regulate (at least yet) restaurants, movies, Disney World etc.    He is asking the legislature to draft legislation that will make this law.

[Flatbush Flyer]

19 hours ago, Daniel A said:

.....Should a person who relies on public transit to travel to their employment be denied boarding because they didn't show a vaccine passport?

Absolutely. The alternative is that the unvaccinated person may be/become an asymptomatic Covid transmitter and possibly responsible for the death of another human being.

Not getting vaccinated is the height of selfishness.

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Absolutely. The alternative is that the unvaccinated person may be/become an asymptomatic Covid transmitter and possibly responsible for the death of another human being.

Not getting vaccinated is the height of selfishness.

So, religious objectors and people who have health reasons shouldn't be allowed to use the transportation they pay for with their taxes to go to a job in order to put food on their table?

[Flatbush Flyer]

Just now, Daniel A said:

So, religious objectors and people who have health reasons shouldn't be allowed to use the transportation they pay for with their taxes to go to a job in order to put food on their table?

I’ve yet to know of a religion that would want its followers to jeopardize the lives of others. You know that most anti-vaxxers use that tired poor excuse to try and circumvent school vaccination requirements. Fortunately, it’s working less and less in enlightened communities across the country.

As for health issues, of course - bona fide waivers for vaccination already exist. Any seasoned traveler will have a WHO yellow card with proof of Yellow Fever vaccination or the appropriate MD waiver (accompanied by a letterhead explanation). The eventual vaccine passports will allow for such waivers.

 

But, to outlaw the passports (or otherwise required proof of vaccination or waiver) is BS since all it accomplishes is to allow ill-advised/selfish people to endanger the lives of others.

 

Slice it or dice it anyway you want but almost 3 million dead so far is plenty of justification for you to get a needle stuck in your arm.

 

So, are you vaccinated or intending to get vaccinated? If yes, I applaud you. If not, I have to ask (any anti-vaxxer) “How do you live with yourself?”

[Daniel A]

5 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I’ve yet to know of a religion that would want its followers to jeopardize the lives of others. You know that most anti-vaxxers use that tired poor excuse to try and circumvent school vaccination requirements. Fortunately, it’s working less and less in enlightened communities across the country.

As for health issues, of course - bona fide waivers for vaccination already exist. Any seasoned traveler will have a WHO yellow card with proof of Yellow Fever vaccination or the appropriate MD waiver (accompanied by a letterhead explanation). The eventual vaccine passports will allow for such waivers.

 

But, to outlaw the passports (or otherwise required proof of vaccination or waiver) is BS since all it accomplishes is to allow ill-advised/selfish people to endanger the lives of others.

 

Slice it or dice it anyway you want but almost 3 million dead so far is plenty of justification for you to get a needle stuck in your arm.

 

So, are you vaccinated or intending to get vaccinated? If yes, I applaud you. If not, I have to ask (any anti-vaxxer) “How do you live with yourself?”

First, I am not an anti-vaxxer.  I believe that allowing just any entity to require a vaccine passport or else...  is just another manifestation of the cancel culture.  "If you're not willing to share your health history with us you can't shop here.  You don't count any more."  I am a firm believer in vaccines and I personally won't sail on a cruise that doesn't require vaccination of passengers and crew, but that's my choice in limiting my options.  I shouldn't need to prove to Trader Joe's that I'm worthy to buy my sustenance there.  As far as health waivers goes, why don't those people pose a danger to the lives of others?  Should we send all of them to the leper colony on Molokai?

 

Among the few religions with an absolute objection to vaccines include:

Churches that rely on faith healing including small Christian churches such as Church of the First Born, End Time Ministries, Faith Assembly, Faith Tabernacle, and First Century Gospel Church.  The First Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Scientist) believes in healing through prayer and that vaccines aren't necessary.

 

Are these religious observers to be shunned and shut out from society?  Should they be banned from receiving emergency medical treatment (for that matter show me your vaccine passport or you can't go in my ambulance.)  I only raise these points to show that it's not simply a black or white issue.  There are other factors to consider.  I am in favor of a reasoned approach to requiring vaccines in certain limited circumstances.  But, to have vaccine passport requirements for normal activities of daily living would be just plain wrong.  Besides if you're fully vaccinated, these unvaccinated souls don't represent a threat to your life anyway.  So sayeth the science...

 

Just another point of view.  I don't want to live in a society that says "Let me see your papers.." just like Europe had in the 1930's and 1940's.  Those folks got away with at least 6 million dead and that was due to religious intolerance.  I am now officially off my soap box. 

[clo]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I shouldn't need to prove to Trader Joe's that I'm worthy to buy my sustenance there. 

But wouldn't they be able to require it?

[clo]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Besides if you're fully vaccinated, these unvaccinated souls don't represent a threat to your life anyway.  So sayeth the science...

NO THEY AREN'T. They're saying the chance is slimmer but not impossible. Right?

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

First, I am not an anti-vaxxer.  I believe that allowing just any entity to require a vaccine passport or else...  is just another manifestation of the cancel culture.  "If you're not willing to share your health history with us you can't shop here.  You don't count any more."  I am a firm believer in vaccines and I personally won't sail on a cruise that doesn't require vaccination of passengers and crew, but that's my choice in limiting my options.  I shouldn't need to prove to Trader Joe's that I'm worthy to buy my sustenance there.  As far as health waivers goes, why don't those people pose a danger to the lives of others?  Should we send all of them to the leper colony on Molokai?

 

Among the few religions with an absolute objection to vaccines include:

Churches that rely on faith healing including small Christian churches such as Church of the First Born, End Time Ministries, Faith Assembly, Faith Tabernacle, and First Century Gospel Church.  The First Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Scientist) believes in healing through prayer and that vaccines aren't necessary.

 

Are these religious observers to be shunned and shut out from society?  Should they be banned from receiving emergency medical treatment (for that matter show me your vaccine passport or you can't go in my ambulance.)  I only raise these points to show that it's not simply a black or white issue.  There are other factors to consider.  I am in favor of a reasoned approach to requiring vaccines in certain limited circumstances.  But, to have vaccine passport requirements for normal activities of daily living would be just plain wrong.  Besides if you're fully vaccinated, these unvaccinated souls don't represent a threat to your life anyway.  So sayeth the science...

 

Just another point of view.  I don't want to live in a society that says "Let me see your papers.." just like Europe had in the 1930's and 1940's.  Those folks got away with at least 6 million dead and that was due to religious intolerance.  I am now officially off my soap box. 

Okay -so let’s sum it up with that old American saying: “No Shirt. No Shoes. No Service.”

[Daniel A]

6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Besides if you're fully vaccinated, these unvaccinated souls don't represent a threat to your life anyway.  So sayeth the science...

 

3 hours ago, clo said:

NO THEY AREN'T. They're saying the chance is slimmer but not impossible. Right?

 

"All seven COVID-19 vaccines that have completed large efficacy trials — Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, Novavax, AstraZeneca, Sputnik V and Sinovac — appear to be 100% effective for serious complications. Not one vaccinated person has gotten sick enough to require hospitalization. Not a single vaccinated person has died of COVID-19."

 

All COVID vaccines stop severe illness and death. Take what's offered. (usatoday.com)

 

[RJB]

21 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Absolutely. The alternative is that the unvaccinated person may be/become an asymptomatic Covid transmitter and possibly responsible for the death of another human being.

Not getting vaccinated is the height of selfishness.

+ 1

[njhorseman]

12 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

 

"All seven COVID-19 vaccines that have completed large efficacy trials — Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, Novavax, AstraZeneca, Sputnik V and Sinovac — appear to be 100% effective for serious complications. Not one vaccinated person has gotten sick enough to require hospitalization. Not a single vaccinated person has died of COVID-19."

 

All COVID vaccines stop severe illness and death. Take what's offered. (usatoday.com)

 

That doesn't say that cases of COVID-19 don't arise in vaccinated people. They do, although it's not common :

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/rare-breakthrough-cases-of-covid-19-are-occurring-in-vaccinated-people#What-are-breakthrough-cases?-

 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/26/fauci-covid-cases-post-vaccination-are-not-surprising/

 

Since these "breakthrough" cases do occur then there's at least some possibility that those infected can pass the virus along to others.

[Hanoverian]

Cruise Industry News reports that NCLH has sent a letter to the CDC outlining its plans for dealing with COVID and asking for a July 4 start date.  I think that Frank is calling the CDC's bluff and will use the CDC's response as as ammunition if he feels the need to escalate this further. 

 

 https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24706-norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-submits-plan-to-cdc-asks-for-july-4-restart.html

[Daniel A]

23 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

That doesn't say that cases of COVID-19 don't arise in vaccinated people. They do, although it's not common :

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/rare-breakthrough-cases-of-covid-19-are-occurring-in-vaccinated-people#What-are-breakthrough-cases?-

 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/26/fauci-covid-cases-post-vaccination-are-not-surprising/

 

Since these "breakthrough" cases do occur then there's at least some possibility that those infected can pass the virus along to others.

No disagreement with your post.  The context of my posting at #38 was that an unvaccinated individual won't cause your death from Covid if you are vaccinated.  So, the unvaccinated (for any reason) don't represent a threat to the lives of the vaccinated.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Daniel A

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Hanoverian said:

Cruise Industry News reports that NCLH has sent a letter to the CDC outlining its plans for dealing with COVID and asking for a July 4 start date.  I think that Frank is calling the CDC's bluff and will use the CDC's response as as ammunition if he feels the need to escalate this further. 

 

 https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24706-norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-submits-plan-to-cdc-asks-for-july-4-restart.html

Kudos to FDR. “July 4th” restart was a nice touch to a well crafted letter. He even had a “throw away” in there - the 20% per month passenger increase (something with which the CDC can disagree).

[Petoonya]

4 hours ago, Daniel A said:

So, the unvaccinated (for any reason) don't represent a threat to the lives of the vaccinated.

I might be wrong here but believe the unvaccinated do represent a threat to the vaccinated. No vaccine as of yet is 100%. The more of the unvaccinated folks I am exposed to the greater the probability that I might become infected. Probability is much higher on a cruise ship with the unvaccinated for me, than if I run down to the local hardware store.

Please explain the error of my logic- thanks 🙂

[Daniel A]

10 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

I might be wrong here but believe the unvaccinated do represent a threat to the vaccinated. No vaccine as of yet is 100%. The more of the unvaccinated folks I am exposed to the greater the probability that I might become infected. Probability is much higher on a cruise ship with the unvaccinated for me, than if I run down to the local hardware store.

Please explain the error of my logic- thanks 🙂

My earlier post said "So, the unvaccinated (for any reason) don't represent a threat to the lives of the vaccinated."

 

I'm not referencing the threat of an infection.  I am referencing that the data shows the vaccines are 100% effective in preventing death from Covid-19.  The other lower percentages only reference the odds of getting infected by Covid-19.  But again, the data shows all of the vaccines are 100% effective against severe disease requiring hospitalizations and deaths.

 

I hope this clears it up for you.  🙂 💉 

[Petoonya]

@Daniel A

Thanks very much 🙂

I'm still not interested in a threat of infection on a cruise ship though. Even if I don't die 😉

Edited April 5, 2021 by Petoonya

[Daniel A]

17 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

@Daniel A

Thanks very much 🙂

I'm still not interested in a threat of infection on a cruise ship though. Even if I don't die 😉

Nor am I.  Those posts you read were strictly replies to the idea that unvaccinated people should not be allowed to take any public transportation even to their jobs.  I'm not as concerned about catching the virus on a cruise as much as what a bunch of unvaccinated people getting sick would do to the rest of my cruise.  I want vaccinated only on my cruise, but I think a city bus is a different matter.  Nobody will be forced into poverty by being denied the ability to take a cruise but being banned from public transit would be a completely different matter.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Daniel A

[Daniel A]

I may need to walk back one statement I made about Governor DeSantis' Executive Order banning vaccine passports being required in Florida.  I was given to believe that an Executive Order can only last for 90 days, but after having read the actual order, the very last sentence says that the order shall remain in effect for the duration of his Executive Order issued in March of 2020 (declaring a public health emergency) as extended.

 

Maybe someone with better knowledge of Florida law can chime in here.  Can he keep on extending this order again and again?

[PaulMCO]

The Governor has tied all of the executive orders to his master order signed in March 2020 (either 20-51 or 20-52) .  Allows him to extend one with all being extended.   Eventually the master will expire (with the Emergency) but the issue regarding use of passports and showing vaccination certificates remains. 

 

The Governor in his remarks stated his goal is legislation to make this law.  "Today I issued an executive order prohibiting the use of so-called COVID-19 vaccine passports. The Legislature is working on making permanent these protections for Floridians and I look forward to signing them into law soon."

[Daniel A]

2 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

The Governor has tied all of the executive orders to his master order signed in March 2020 (either 20-51 or 20-52) .  Allows him to extend one with all being extended.   Eventually the master will expire (with the Emergency) but the issue regarding use of passports and showing vaccination certificates remains. 

 

The Governor in his remarks stated his goal is legislation to make this law.  "Today I issued an executive order prohibiting the use of so-called COVID-19 vaccine passports. The Legislature is working on making permanent these protections for Floridians and I look forward to signing them into law soon."

So, if the legislature passes a less restrictive law, does that supersede the Executive Order while the emergency still exists?