Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations

[BlerkOne]

8 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

Ask and ye shall receive .   

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7

If I have trouble sleeping, I may try to digest more, but this item stood out.. 

 

However, the effect of vaccination on viral load in COVID-19 post-vaccination infections is currently unknown⁸

[mredandchis]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

If I have trouble sleeping, I may try to digest more, but this item stood out.. 

 

However, the effect of vaccination on viral load in COVID-19 post-vaccination infections is currently unknown⁸

And I have a few more studies to help you sleep.  I have one since that one that says the viral load is between 1.6 to 20 times less than an unvax patient.

So my point is simply they havent found one yet BUT I believe they will eventually.  It will be rare.  

[jfunk138]

16 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

not the breakthrough cases,  Those are a fact.. was referring to vaccinated people shedding the virus.  I see I wasn't clear as I wanted to be.  I dont feed trolls,  I attempt to simply carry on simple conversations and debate a bit. 

I generally agree with much of what you say here... But hundreds of those thousands of cases did turn into hospitalizations.  You don't get sick enough to be hospitalized and not shed the virus.   

 

Many on both sides of this debate are WAY too optimistic about how well the vax works.   At this point, we've only had a large number of people "fully vaccinated" for a short period of time.  As that time increases and these folks get more exposed, this number of breakthrough cases is going to grow rapidly.

[mredandchis]

1 minute ago, jfunk138 said:

I generally agree with much of what you say here... But hundreds of those thousands of cases did turn into hospitalizations.  You don't get sick enough to be hospitalized and not shed the virus.   

 

Many on both sides of this debate are WAY too optimistic about how well the vax works.   At this point, we've only had a large number of people "fully vaccinated" for a short period of time.  As that time increases and these folks get more exposed, this number of breakthrough cases is going to grow rapidly.

Point taken,  I dont know except for reading thru studies.  But could a person not have a severe case of covid that stimulated  a negative health condition? such as a elderly person on oxygen pick up some covid that makes it very hard to breath?   

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

And I have a few more studies to help you sleep.  I have one since that one that says the viral load is between 1.6 to 20 times less than an unvax patient.

So my point is simply they havent found one yet BUT I believe they will eventually.  It will be rare.  

So what are we debating? Everyone agrees it is plausible. I believe as the number of variants increase, the percentage of breakthrough cases will as well. 

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

Point taken,  I dont know except for reading thru studies.  But could a person not have a severe case of covid that stimulated  a negative health condition? such as a elderly person on oxygen pick up some covid that makes it very hard to breath?   

The majority of breakthrough cases, about 60% were in people under the age of 60. 

[mredandchis]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

So what are we debating? Everyone agrees it is plausible. I believe as the number of variants increase, the percentage of breakthrough cases will as well. 

Maybe it is just tone that each person reads into the printed word.  

Logic says that there will be more breakthrough cases the more people we vaccinate.  I see a pattern of this happening more to the elderly as the vaccine  doesn't seem to be as totally effective on them.  Am I elderly at 69?   Anyhow we have at least offered all the people at risk the vaccine. Here in NC 71 percent have taken it.  Now to get as many people who are willing to take the jab as possible and see if we can get the same results as other nations have.  

 

AND as you once said , this is a global pandemic.  The nations must help each other in order that the people of earth flourish.  This stuff needs to get to ever corner. 

 

[mredandchis]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The majority of breakthrough cases, about 60% were in people under the age of 60. 

Very true, 

I cant find what ages there was on the hospitalized.  Jfunk brought up hospitalized breakthoughs as maybe being heavy viral loads.  That is a key I think in the logic.  Are the hospitalized people  the ones that we would have been considered in harms way or are the studies all full of ca ca.  I will look more tomorrow.  Old men need their sleep too.  

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

 

Logic says that there will be more breakthrough cases the more people we vaccinate. 

 

That, too. Logic also tells us the number of breakthrough cases are underreported as a number of them are asymptomatic. The CDC even said if you are fully vaccinated and get exposed, there is no need to be tested if you don't develop symptoms. I"m not sure that is true 

 

 

10 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

 Now to get as many people who are willing to take the jab as possible and see if we can get the same results as other nations have.  

I think in general, a larger percentage of people in other countries are willing to get vaccinated, if only they had the supply.

 

10 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

AND as you once said , this is a global pandemic.  The nations must help each other in order that the people of earth flourish.  This stuff needs to get to ever corner. 

 

Indeed!

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Sometimes in life we don't have the luxury to wait around for 100% (everyone agrees, ironclad) proof. Take evolution for example -  will there ever be 100% consensus? I joked earlier about "flat earth", but some people are firm believers (yes, some are trolls, but some would stake their life on it).

 

Note that I'm not advocating everyone barricade themselves in their home. Play it safe and err on the side of caution - at least that's my approach (and your mileage may vary greatly)!

 

Tom

[tkportersat]

19 hours ago, Tink10 said:

Cruising isn't my preferred vacation, so as long as there are those requirements, my family simply won't go, and we're okay with that.  🙂  We have plenty of places to go & things to do where there aren't requirements. 

Agreed...cruising is not the end all vacation.  Took me a while to figure that out but there are other options. 

[tkportersat]

19 hours ago, Tink10 said:

For people who choose to follow the requirements. I say great! Have a fantastic time! (And I really do feel that way).

 

Because of Covid & riots in the city we lived in in Wisconsin, we moved to Arizona and I can honestly say that here in AZ, our beliefs and choices about Covid do not put us in the minority. I know with absolute certainty that if a line could get around the Covid "recommendations" put in place by the CDC, the masses of travelers who aren't afraid of Covid and don't agree with the mandates would flock to them. 

Where in AZ?  Might need an escape, transplants are ruining Texas...

[tkportersat]

17 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

To each his or her own. We shouldn't have to relocate to a more accepting place to enhance our viewpoints. I just can't understand why there are still American Citizens who refuse to comply. These are well trained Medical Experts that totally have our safety at heart. What would they gain by publishing false rhetoric? Maybe this may sound morbid or off-putting but let's pray that we don't have to wait until Covid strikes "home" to become believers. Wouldn't wish that scenario on anyone.   

Already all had it at my house.  And my 69 year old, smokes a pack a day mother had it too.  It took her longer to kick for obvious reasons but is recovered. The people that report everything are way distorting numbers...can't control people if you can't scare them into submission.  

[cruiseracer]

14 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

For grins, I checked on the requirements for the Princess UK cruises that will start in the near future. Vaccines are required. Apparently no exemptions for any reason. I like the rationale for why they are requiring vaccines for passengers:

Are your Summer Seacation voyages only available to vaccinated guests?
Yes - Given the advanced progress of the UK vaccination programme, and strong expressed preference on the part of our guests for this limited series of UK cruises, these sailings on Regal and Sky Princess will be for UK resident Covid-19 vaccinated guests only.

For these cruises the definition of “vaccinated” is a minimum of seven days following the second dose of the currently approved Covid-19 vaccines being administered. Proof of vaccination and the dates given will be required (approved forms of evidence will be confirmed closer to time of departure) and this will be required to be shown at the terminal prior to boarding. Failure to provide this evidence will result in denial of boarding. There is no age restriction on this series of UK coastal cruises but all guests of all ages must meet the requirements of the Princess Covid-19 vaccination policy.

 

1. Are there any guidelines for seeing the sights ashore?
   For the time being, you will only be able to go ashore on shore excursions that are researched and organized by Princess Cruises. Port transfer and shore experience operators will be subject to new policies and procedures to reflect the latest approved guidance in line with our on-board protocols, and will comply with all local guidance relating to social distancing and face masks.

And I choose not to cruise on Princess UK cruises. See how easy that is? 

Edited April 22, 2021 by cruiseracer

[stellarose]

we all know it's a hot topic.  I think the cruise lines need a united front.  vaccine cruise- no vaccine you get tested before during and after cruise. limited capacity at first. 

 

 

[cruiseracer]

16 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Got ya. I guess NCL will be removed from my list. Count me in the pro family contingent. 

Same here. It's nice to have that choice. 😉

[ontheweb]

33 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

And I choose not to cruise on Princess UK cruises. See how easy that is? 

Actually, since they are only taking citizens of the UK, you really do not have a choice; you cannot book the cruise.

[volfan22701]

20 hours ago, Tink10 said:

For people who choose to follow the requirements. I say great! Have a fantastic time! (And I really do feel that way).

 

Because of Covid & riots in the city we lived in in Wisconsin, we moved to Arizona and I can honestly say that here in AZ, our beliefs and choices about Covid do not put us in the minority. I know with absolute certainty that if a line could get around the Covid "recommendations" put in place by the CDC, the masses of travelers who aren't afraid of Covid and don't agree with the mandates would flock to them. 

LUCKILY THEY CAN'T.

[volfan22701]

17 hours ago, Tink10 said:

 

 

 

If people choose to get vaccinated, I'm all for it and I certainly respect your opinion. But by the same token, I resent having my freedoms curtailed to protect a relatively small number of people who are deemed at-risk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EVERYONE IS AT RISK.

[d12j28]

2 minutes ago, volfan22701 said:

EVERYONE IS AT RISK.

Really?

[BlerkOne]

17 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Actually, since they are only taking citizens of the UK, you really do not have a choice; you cannot book the cruise.

Exactly. If you aren't in the UK, you can't even see the page with the cruises, much less book them.

[volfan22701]

4 minutes ago, d12j28 said:

Really?

Yes unless you are already dead.

[mredandchis]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Some people can smoke all their lives and not die from cancer. The odds are not good, though.

 

You can choose to make up whatever numbers you like. I think the distortion in some states is to way under report, otherwise it is bad for their economy, and we all know money makes the world go round.

actually I believe it is hard to draw a line in a grey area.  There are people marks as died from covid that had actually died of something else and other that werent marked that should have.  That line is so blurred I wouldnt know which way to go on any single case.  But I think it all comes out in the wash.  Even each state is tracing and using the tests to tract cases down.  It isn't fool proof but it is the best we got.  

[mredandchis]

1 hour ago, volfan22701 said:

EVERYONE IS AT RISK.

If you are standing in a room with 1000 people and no one in the room has covid , is there a risk?  

I thought of that during the early days of the pandemic when I was told to wear both a mask and gloves to protect myself.  We wiped down the groceries and i place my clothing into the washer and then showered upon my return.  Then I thought if no one in the store had covid, what am I doing?  Since then I have changed.  No more gloves, no more wiping everything down,  just basic precautions. 

 

Now even the CDC says if a family gets together and everyone is vaccinated there is no need for masks.  How large a family is that limited to. 

[Marlowe8]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/health/vaccine-nursing-homes-infections.html

 

Here is a documented case where an unvaccinated person passed the virus to people who have been vaccinated.   We have 2 Carnival cruises booked for the winter but will cancel if vaccines are not required.