All inclusive. Not really. Expensive, YES!

[Ride-The-Waves]

Lunch at an Italian/Greek restaurant today with three other cruising couples we met seven years ago...

 

One couple (her focus anyway) was scheduling cruises on RCI ships in 2022 to reach that magic "Pinnacle" level.  No real explanation why.  Spending well over a hundred thousand USD and time just to claim membership in the "Pinnacle Club?"  RCI has really caught their fish.  She had no idea what she would do once at that level.  Maybe enjoy herself more on cruises, maybe try other lines...?

[Ride-The-Waves]

Just now, Ride-The-Waves said:

Lunch at an Italian/Greek restaurant today with three other cruising couples we met seven years ago...

 

One couple (her focus anyway) was scheduling cruises on RCI ships in 2022 to reach that magic "Pinnacle" level.  No real explanation why.  Spending well over a hundred thousand USD and time just to claim membership in the "Pinnacle Club?"  RCI has really caught their fish.  She had no idea what she would do once at that level.  Maybe enjoy herself more on cruises, maybe try other lines...?

And just for reference, this was the first time we have seen these friends in over 18 months and the first time we have enjoyed eating in a restaurant since returning from a Mardi Gras cruise on Reflection February 2020.

[LGW59]

43 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

It isn't fair. You shouldn't be forced to drink drinks just to "get your monies worth".

Time to dust of the Lexus, get on board and spend a few bucks.

 

[Pinboy]

11 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

The point is it’s my money and I determine if something is worth it. I don’t care what you do with your money, it’s apparent you don’t either. You don’t have to worry about meeting me, I have a special sense that steers me clear of no it all braggarts.

Easy, easy--- I was having a little " fun " with you. 

Didn't you notice the ( LOL ) ?

Never meant to upset you. 

Now, maybe re-read my comment and have a little laugh.

 

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

I have a special sense that steers me clear of no it all braggarts.

 

Good thing I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that.  Mister Three Times.

 

PS:  It's spelled "Know"

Edited May 1, 2021 by FlyerTalker

[HMR74]

Well, here goes what I said earlier about food inflation. If this continues, the cruise lines will need a way to increase prices to cover for this.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-29/fried-chicken-craze-is-causing-u-s-to-run-low-on-poultry?sref=RJ2RlMrh

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by HMR74

[LGW59]

40 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

Well, here goes what I said earlier about food inflation. If this continues, the cruise lines will need a way to increase prices to cover for this.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-29/fried-chicken-craze-is-causing-u-s-to-run-low-on-poultry?sref=RJ2RlMrh

 

 

we really need poultry crazes added to the mix?  if so, I got a .79 loaf of bread in the freezer, do you want it?  Was left to me by my mom, but she would understand...

[Ride-The-Waves]

9 hours ago, LGW59 said:

we really need poultry crazes added to the mix?  if so, I got a .79 loaf of bread in the freezer, do you want it?  Was left to me by my mom, but she would understand...

Waiting for 19.9cents/gallon for premium to return...  Last paid that in Texas during college during a "gas war."

[TeeRick]

Why all this discussion of what is fair and not fair?  We all evaluate things differently.  We are different in our financial abilities.  What is fair to me might not be fair to you.  So what?  We all make our personal vacation choices and what we spend on them.  Not sure why it matters to anybody other than me and dw.  That is very clear now after a year away from cruising and vacationing.  If you think AI is not a good value in the way you judge your choices, then choose to cruise elsewhere.  Pretty simple.  If it is a big deal that you spend money on AI but don't use all the benefits, then just go elsewhere if that concept ruins your vacation.  Your money, your choice. There are so many cruise lines, ships and vacation choices.   If you want to spend $40k for an Edge Villa for two people for a week, your money, your choice.  Just invite me over.  😊

[davekathy]

13 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

It isn't fair. You shouldn't be forced to drink drinks just to "get your monies worth".

You're not forced. Just like you're not forced to eat everything in site just to get your monies worth. 

[HMR74]

2 minutes ago, davekathy said:

You're not forced. Just like you're not forced to eat everything in site just to get your monies worth. 

Correcto.

 

but on drinks , it does include nicer coffee and iced tea. And other beverages. And when you are on vacation you have  more time available, for one reason, no phone, for nightly relaxed dinners where a drink before and during dinner is common as well as a coffee after dinner then something later somewhere. Throw in a happy hour drink, or poolside , or at lunch. It adds up and the package in my mind allows me to have that extra drink without cost justifying it while on vacation. And yes its wasteful, but sometimes I leave part of a drink unfinished, or, while sitting at a bar, a bartender offers an idea and I can try something new.

 

everything just changes on board regarding daily routine. Which is one reason to go on vacations.

[cruisemom42]

48 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Why all this discussion of what is fair and not fair?  We all evaluate things differently.  We are different in our financial abilities.  What is fair to me might not be fair to you.

 

While this is true to an extent, most do have some kind of "line" regarding what is fair vs. unfair. 

 

It is very hard for me to justify the extra charge levied on solo passengers under the new AI plan. I can see the rationale of double-charging for a cabin. But to penalize solo travelers to the extent that we are paying for TWO sets of drinks and TWO sets of gratuities is two steps beyond that line for me.

[TeeRick]

8 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

While this is true to an extent, most do have some kind of "line" regarding what is fair vs. unfair. 

 

It is very hard for me to justify the extra charge levied on solo passengers under the new AI plan. I can see the rationale of double-charging for a cabin. But to penalize solo travelers to the extent that we are paying for TWO sets of drinks and TWO sets of gratuities is two steps beyond that line for me.

I think you are agreeing with my point?  We all have our own situations and evaluate our vacation choices.  If at any time that evaluation crosses our personal line to "unfair" or "penalize" then why pay for it?  Why would you continue to pay a cruise line that does not meet your needs and does not make you happy?

[Pinboy]

29 minutes ago, davekathy said:

   " you're not forced to eat everything in site just to get your monies worth ". 

LOL--- THAT would make a great sign at the entrance to the " Slugfest on 14 ".

I have a feeling that you are the " New and Improved " Marketing Manager (s ) ??

 

[davekathy]

2 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

LOL--- THAT would make a great sign at the entrance to the " Slugfest on 14 ".

I have a feeling that you are the " New and Improved " Marketing Manager (s ) ??

 

No thanks.  Way above my paygrade. Just voicing my opinion. 👍

Edited May 1, 2021 by davekathy

[cruisemom42]

5 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Why would you continue to pay a cruise line that does not meet your needs and does not make you happy?

 

Because I like Celebrity ships and the Celebrity experience and I hope they will rethink this mis-step. 

 

Edited to add:  My point was not exactly the same as yours. I feel there is some collective point (not always individual) at which many reasonable people would feel something is "unfair" even if it doesn't expressly apply to them personally.

Edited May 1, 2021 by cruisemom42

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

14 hours ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Fare is Fair - there is no prejudice or favoritism - just market forces at work.

 

40 years ago I enjoyed flying in coach with knee-room greater than the current premium seating and meals that were as good or better than today's domestic first class (BTW, they currently only consist of snacks - supposedly due to COVID but also probably due to the desire to lower expenses.)  Do I consider it unfair?  No; it was a business decision that I have adjusted to - as I now fly as little as possible.

 

Same with cruising - adjust to the market realities and enjoy what you find of value to you and your family.

Well said!

[HMR74]

40 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Because I like Celebrity ships and the Celebrity experience and I hope they will rethink this mis-step. 

 

Edited to add:  My point was not exactly the same as yours. I feel there is some collective point (not always individual) at which many reasonable people would feel something is "unfair" even if it doesn't expressly apply to them personally.

that ends up being the problem with a "lowest common denominator " society.

 

You can please some of the people some of the time but never all of the people all of the time.

 

Things in life sometimes are not fair. We have a single daughter and a bunch of single contemporaries, by divorce or otherwise. so for example, we are acutely aware of the full charge for solos, and how some do not really want to share a cabin for an extended period of time.

 

Take a look at the "Fair" tax  that's always proposed. It depends on what side of the fence you are on, and cuts both ways.   Bottom line there are there are not enough "rich" people with high income to tax to cut deficits meaningfully, so the tax increases have to drop down to ordinary middle income  and net worth neighborhoods. Or we keep adding monstrous debt, by both parties,  thinking there will be no consequences.  So what's fair?  How bout everybody having some "skin" in the game at that level. 

 

But if I felt taken real  (vs.nominal) advantage of on cruising and subsidizing others, that is an easy to solve problem: I just will not cruise. Move on to other things.

 

Celebrity looks at it as depriving them (and other cruise lines too) of revenue. The food is really the only cost variable and for say 10 people who travel solo on a ship of 2800, its not a big difference in food costs to them in the big picture. Probably not 20 or 30 either. An interesting question is just how big is the solo cruiser market that its worth it to go after.

 

Add to it the cruise lines with covid now have to keep inside (now non revenue) cabins open for potential health crisis. A few thousand here, and few thousand there, adds up to real money.

if that costs the cruise lines 20,000 per cruise, they spread it around the other 2800 on board one way or another. Its only another~ $7 per person for a 7 day cruise. But then there is the addl medical staff on board as well as for testing and equipment. Since there really is no such thing as a free (complimentary in cruise line terminology) lunch, pun intended, we pay for it one way or another.

 

I still hint for Celebrity that if the AI was meant to be more of a Premium line mystic to the brand name, kick it up a notch for things like quality of food or something else noticeable.

 

Everything in life  has a cause and effect--everything---sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4774Papa]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:22 PM, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Well we did love cruising with Celebrity. Great cruises and at a nominal cost. We have no use for all inclusive. Paying for things we never do or use. I wish them well. It was nice when you could choose if you wanted all the perks they were offering for your cruise or just the basic cruise and you purchase only the extras you wanted. Always get the a soda package and the steak house. Happy sailing!

Amen, we lament the choice X has made.  It is not virtually priced out of the market for us.

We are moderate drinkers, never buy specialty coffees or use more internet than awarded by elite benefits.  Royal C will benefit, since we all save thousands on a two week cruise.  With Diamond benefits, we never spend anything on booze since Diamond happy hour runs from 5pm until 8:30pm.

[iancal]

Celebrity is one of several cruise lines that we enjoy.   When it comes down to the final choice we are always happy to select Celebrity.  But...we are also fine with RC, Princess, etc.   We are certainly not married to Celebrity or any other cruise line. 

 

The ship is just as important as the logo on the funnel to us.   The last time we came down to three ships was on the SA. route.   Infinity was 30 plus percent more expensive at time of booking than Crown Princess.  No issue, we selected Crown over Infinity.  The difference more than paid for our three day trip to Iguazu Falls.

[Denny01]

It’s always interesting reading the threads focused on pricing of whatever that has just gone up. But please, since there are one or two other choices, go elsewhere if you don’t drink anything, and don’t use WiFi, and feel you are being ripped off. I realize we love to *****, but this isn’t as if basic food staples and gas prices jumped way up, this is pricing for vacationing, and obviously every Line hasn’t been making a great deal of money through 2020 and well into 2021. 

 

And if you think you are getting some message to Celebrity, Cruise Line personnel may read these forums, but they look at bookings and on-ship evaluations as their primary source, and Celebrity appears to be doing just fine, and AI appears to be quite popular with future itineraries are filling up. 

 

By the way, one of the major complaints has been about the Lines using gratuities as a supplement to pay their staff and how that isn’t right. Well, the AI is now just a way of all of us paying for Staff in the overall cost, and that’s great unless you are the ones who sneak down to the Desk and have it removed because your  steward didn’t say good morning one day. I hope that is kept on. We should pay the crew as part of the cruise cost and add tips as we wish. 

 

Enough. But one more pont: I don’t quite see this forcing someone to drink more. That was an interesting complaint about AI. We aren’t kids. But of course, I now may have an additional drink or two! But Being Forced??? When I did get a drink package, I didn’t sit there calculating did I or did I not break even today. 

 

Den 

 

 

[LGW59]

13 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

It’s always interesting reading the threads focused on pricing of whatever that has just gone up. But please, since there are one or two other choices, go elsewhere if you don’t drink anything, and don’t use WiFi, and feel you are being ripped off. I realize we love to *****, but this isn’t as if basic food staples and gas prices jumped way up, this is pricing for vacationing, and obviously every Line hasn’t been making a great deal of money through 2020 and well into 2021. 

 

And if you think you are getting some message to Celebrity, Cruise Line personnel may read these forums, but they look at bookings and on-ship evaluations as their primary source, and Celebrity appears to be doing just fine, and AI appears to be quite popular with future itineraries are filling up. 

 

By the way, one of the major complaints has been about the Lines using gratuities as a supplement to pay their staff and how that isn’t right. Well, the AI is now just a way of all of us paying for Staff in the overall cost, and that’s great unless you are the ones who sneak down to the Desk and have it removed because your  steward didn’t say good morning one day. I hope that is kept on. We should pay the crew as part of the cruise cost and add tips as we wish. 

 

Enough. But one more pont: I don’t quite see this forcing someone to drink more. That was an interesting complaint about AI. We aren’t kids. But of course, I now may have an additional drink or two! But Being Forced??? When I did get a drink package, I didn’t sit there calculating did I or did I not break even today. 

 

Den 

 

 

AI works well for me (always get my moneys worth) and I am a solo cruiser.  Would be nice if they had a "menu" to select from, but they don't, so it is what it is, the Celebrity service and product is still superb!  Have always left my cruise feeling I got what I paid for and more. 

[lovetocruise1953]

I must be strange, I love the idea of All included and always book it if we can.

We usually only do cruises this way and use Fred Olsen when they have their offers on of drinks and tips.

I like it that I am paying a price that I am happy with and can have a drink when I want one without worrying about the bill adding up and wondering who's round it is........I like all inc hotels as well..........

[Ride-The-Waves]

Like the interesting discussion.  One underlying issue not considered is this is Celebrity's way of maximizing profits.  Celebrity, as an entity within RCG, is not motivated by emotions.  Motivation is greed (profit) and the company doesn't care a horse's pitute about what you like or don't like.  They only consider how and on what you spend you money.  Period!  Through their proprietary set of algorithms the company has determined that the best and easiest way to separate a customer from his/her money is through "AI."  The rest is fluff, marketing to get the customer to believe he/she is getting a good deal or at least a better deal than someone else or from some other company.  As customer is our job, at least for most if us, to make the determination its something on what we want to spend discretionary monies.  Simple.

 

The pandemic adds into the calculation of how much more can Celebrity charge for a cruise, how money can be "hidden" in a cruise fare without drawing too much attention, to help future cruisers pay the costs incurred during the restricted cruising period.  

 

This is really the "fun" period for experienced cruisers.  We have the ability to review offers, prices and costs, and then compare and select the one that we deem best for our personal situation.  We have always liked Celebrity.  Nice ships (Millennium through Reflection).  Princess offers a comparable product to Solstice with their Royal Class.  Have also enjoyed Azamara (formerly part of Celebrity).  For 2022 we have opted to cruise with Princess (trans-Atlantic), Celebrity (Greece and Adriatic) and Oceania (trans-Med and Trans-Atlantic) based on the quality of the itinerary and the ship/crew.  No consideration for "loyalty" programs anymore.

[tfred]

1 hour ago, 4774Papa said:

Amen, we lament the choice X has made.  It is not virtually priced out of the market for us.

We are moderate drinkers, never buy specialty coffees or use more internet than awarded by elite benefits.  Royal C will benefit, since we all save thousands on a two week cruise.  With Diamond benefits, we never spend anything on booze since Diamond happy hour runs from 5pm until 8:30pm.

RCL Group is trying to position each of its lines to different markets.  RCCL is ala carte pricing, solid mass market with new builds that are floating resorts for families and representatives solid value.  

 

X is trying to emulate premium like Oceania and Viking Ocean with upgraded suite offerings while having big boat amenities that those two can't offer.  Plus side (for me) in reduced number of kids just because of pricing.  Not many people will drop $3k on each kid in a room and no refunds on the AI part.  RCCL has all sorts of discounted rates for 3rd guest - aka kids

 

If RCI Group was smart they would emphasize the choices that people have in the type of cruise they want and the price points - RCCL, Celebrity and Silversea - to keep soon to be ex-X - pax from straying