The Americans Are Coming! The Americans Are Coming!

[IntrepidFromDC]

Vaccinated American Tourists May Soon Travel to Europe (msn.com)

[dexddd]

That's a start.  For us, we had to write it off early March.

[Oviedo32765]

[MotownVoice]

I'm counting on it.  I already have a med cruise booked for '22.

Now the only question is who will issue the Vaccine Passports, and will they become standard globally?

The U-S appears to be currently against using passports as too many people view it as some kind of infringement on their rights.  The problem with that flawed way of thinking is that it won't be the U-S that will decide whether U-S passengers will need to get on board with a passport program.  The countries to which they want to travel will.  So they may find themselves having to file forms and surrendering vaccine data whether they like it or not if they want to travel abroad.

It'll be interesting to hear the belly-aching and see how it ends up resolving.
 

Edited April 26, 2021 by MotownVoice

[sidari]

Yet to date not one person pushing this nonsense can a really say what use it will be, seeing as a person with the jab can still catch and pass on the virus. Nothing more than a system of control 

[IntrepidFromDC]

10 minutes ago, sidari said:

Yet to date not one person pushing this nonsense can a really say what use it will be, seeing as a person with the jab can still catch and pass on the virus. Nothing more than a system of control 

What I read in one of today's articles stated the differentiation between allowing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated Americans into EU is that hospital ICU's won't be overrun by vaccinated Americans in event of outbreak.  Can't quantify it until it happens, but it makes sense and both American and European scientists and doctors generally agree.

[Beardface]

1 hour ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

What I read in one of today's articles stated the differentiation between allowing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated Americans into EU is that hospital ICU's won't be overrun by vaccinated Americans in event of outbreak.  Can't quantify it until it happens, but it makes sense and both American and European scientists and doctors generally agree.

The bold has always been the point of this whole thing.

 

Its not to eradicate COVID, its to make it so that the global healthcare system isn't completely swamped by the outbreak.  Yes, you can still get COVID with the vaccine, and you might still be able to pass it on.  But they are all more than 99.9% effective at keeping you out of the hospital if and when you get it (which, lets be honest, they're all effective enough to keep at least 8 out of 10 people from catching it, which drastically reduces the exposure the virus has, which, in turn, also helps drive down hospitalizations).

 

Anyone who tries to push that we need to maintain all these measures until its impossible to catch the disease is not arguing in good faith.

[DCGuy64]

33 minutes ago, Beardface said:

Anyone who tries to push that we need to maintain all these measures until its impossible to catch the disease is not arguing in good faith.

How I wish more people got this. It's gotten exasperating trying to talk sense into people. Apparently, a fully vaccinated person who has a 95% chance of NOT getting Covid just isn't good enough for some.

It's either 100% guarantee against even catching it (let alone getting sick or dying from it) or 100% of the control measures must stay in place. Forever. 🙄 What kind of antiseptic bubble do these people live in? As for me, I intend to live my life, and accept the (miniscule) risk that goes along with it.

[rkacruiser]

Sorry, not me.  

[Hlitner]

8 hours ago, sidari said:

Yet to date not one person pushing this nonsense can a really say what use it will be, seeing as a person with the jab can still catch and pass on the virus. Nothing more than a system of control 

I guess we should not let facts get in the way of agendas.  But the facts here in the USA are that "breakthroughs" which is when a fully vaccinated person gets COVID happens in fewer then 1 in 10,000 folks.  Using the actual CDC data it is closer to 1 in 14,000 but I will stick to the conservative figure.  Now of those 1 in 10,000, over 90% have mild to asymptomatic cases.  So what we are talking about is that serious cases in those who are vaccinated are in the 1 in a million range.  I cannot find a single scientific study that supports a fully vaccinated person ever spreading a case of COVID.  Even if they could spread it you are talking about no more then 1 out of 10,000 having that capability. 

 

So lets consider a cruise ship (or other entity) that is limited to only fully vaccinated souls (i.e. Crystal, Seabourn, etc).  The odds of a COVID case are very small and the odds of anyone being able to spread COVID to an entire vessel of vaccinated souls is too small to accurately measure.

 

The only "nonsense" are those folks and governments that seem to have adopted a truly impossible "zero risk" strategy.  There is never going to be zero risk of COIVD just like there is not zero risk for just about anything.   Public Health Policy is about helping get society to a place of acceptable risk.  With fully vaccinated folks we are already well within any measure of acceptable risk (based on norms used for other diseases).

 

Hank

 

Hank

[40yearcruiser]

Since the medical community around the world thinks that the vaccines are the best chance to come out of this pandemic, I don't understand the reluctance to participate in controlling the disease. From the trials that have been completed the risks for a fully vaccinated public to contract the disease are extremely rare. Not impossible, but what in life is without some risk. I hope that all the cruise companies will adopt a requirement for their crew and passengers to be vaccinated, as many already have. It may be the only way to get out of the grip the CDC has on the cruiselines. For those people who do not wish to take the vaccine, they must accept that their choice may limit their ability to travel and participate in other activities where people gather. 

[crazyank]

On 4/26/2021 at 4:37 AM, IntrepidFromDC said:

Vaccinated American Tourists May Soon Travel to Europe (msn.com)

Don't hold your breath.  Each EU country has to make it's own decision, the EU can advise but not force member countries.  With lockdowns and curfews continuing in various places there is no certainty about anything. 

[crazyank]

17 hours ago, MotownVoice said:

The problem with that flawed way of thinking is that it won't be the U-S that will decide whether U-S passengers will need to get on board with a passport program.  The countries to which they want to travel will.  So they may find themselves having to file forms and surrendering vaccine data whether they like it or not if they want to travel abroad.

Yep,  the EU will most likely require some kind of vaccine passport.

[crazyank]

22 hours ago, Couple-Somerset said:

MSC are only for UK residents on UK sailings and for Schengen Country residents in Europe.

According the MSC rep we spoke to this morning these cruises are for UK residents only.

[IntrepidFromDC]

5 hours ago, crazyank said:

Don't hold your breath.  

You picked up on "May" too, eh?

[MotownVoice]

Beware of people making statements as though they are scientific fact. 

Fact Check.

Don't just take peoples' word for information when it's possible they are just making it up, or giving you a half story that they half heard while they were half listening to the news.

The fact is, there is no hard data to support or disprove that a vaccinated person can still contract Covid 19.  There is anecdotal evidence that vaxees can be a carrier and be asymptomatic.  And there have been several people contract Covid after having received the vaccine.  But there is nothing that has been peer reviewed and repeated that indicates either using the scientific method.

There have not been reliable studies done on whether vaxees can be asymptomatic, nor is there anything to support that you can become ill with Covid even if you have been vaccinated.
In the first case, we knew from the outset, as Beardface has said, that there would be either a 5% chance or a 2% chance, depending on the manufacturer that the vaccine would have no effect on you.  So those who contract it but are asymptomatic are not news.
 

In the second case, those who have had the full vaccination and still became ill may have actually been infected prior to getting the vaccines.  And as those who are paying attention know the vaccines are  prophylactic, but not therapeutic. 



 

[8420PR]

The vaccines are working, without doubt:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/phe-monitoring-of-the-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccination

 

Europe isn't at the stage of welcoming travellers from around the world at the moment, but it is a matter of months/weeks away.  The target is to have 70% of EU adult citizens fully vaccinated by July (the US and UK will likely achieve this 4 weeks earlier).  

[CruisingFox27]

7 hours ago, 8420PR said:

The vaccines are working, without doubt:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/phe-monitoring-of-the-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccination

 

Europe isn't at the stage of welcoming travellers from around the world at the moment, but it is a matter of months/weeks away.  The target is to have 70% of EU adult citizens fully vaccinated by July (the US and UK will likely achieve this 4 weeks earlier).  

 

The information relates to the UK. I think our latest stats said 25% currently fully vaccinated. Lots of the EU countries are quite a way behind this at present, although they do seem to be getting on with it more recently. 

[dexddd]

20 hours ago, MotownVoice said:

Beware of people making statements as though they are scientific fact. 

Fact Check.

Don't just take peoples' word for information when it's possible they are just making it up, or giving you a half story that they half heard while they were half listening to the news.

The fact is, there is no hard data to support or disprove that a vaccinated person can still contract Covid 19.  There is anecdotal evidence that vaxees can be a carrier and be asymptomatic.  And there have been several people contract Covid after having received the vaccine.  But there is nothing that has been peer reviewed and repeated that indicates either using the scientific method.

There have not been reliable studies done on whether vaxees can be asymptomatic, nor is there anything to support that you can become ill with Covid even if you have been vaccinated.
In the first case, we knew from the outset, as Beardface has said, that there would be either a 5% chance or a 2% chance, depending on the manufacturer that the vaccine would have no effect on you.  So those who contract it but are asymptomatic are not news.
 

In the second case, those who have had the full vaccination and still became ill may have actually been infected prior to getting the vaccines.  And as those who are paying attention know the vaccines are  prophylactic, but not therapeutic. 



 

Noted, won't take random information on internet.

[Fogfog]

We’d be thrilled to be getting onboard

 

I wonder if the US will return the favor and allow only fully vaxd EU citizens?

[crazyank]

14 hours ago, Couple-Somerset said:

 

lol that's what I said.....

 

UK cruises for UK citizens

 

Europe cruises for Schengen citizens

 

yep, you did.  I shouldn't post before the first cup of coffee, lol