CDC say you can sail mid July

[SpainAlien]

 

[Middleager]

Since NCL (and RCL, Celebrity and others) already require all guests and crews to be fully vaccinated, these cruiselines will meet the 95% requirement.  But why 95%, they should've just make it 100%, otherwise there's the risk of those unvaccinated 5% who are at risk or could be spreaders.

[SpainAlien]

22 minutes ago, Middleager said:

Since NCL (and RCL, Celebrity and others) already require all guests and crews to be fully vaccinated, these cruiselines will meet the 95% requirement.  But why 95%, they should've just make it 100%, otherwise there's the risk of those unvaccinated 5% who are at risk or could be spreaders.

 

I suppose it allows for a small number of children

[mianmike]

3 hours ago, Middleager said:

Since NCL (and RCL, Celebrity and others) already require all guests and crews to be fully vaccinated, these cruiselines will meet the 95% requirement.  But why 95%, they should've just make it 100%, otherwise there's the risk of those unvaccinated 5% who are at risk or could be spreaders.

 

I'm assuming the 95% vaccination requirement vs 100% is to allow the for inevitable covid card fraud scammers that slip through the cracks.  5% margin for error.  To assume the cruise line could unequivocally guarantee that 100% of passengers and crew are vaccinated is unreasonable.  The 95% number should give robust herd immunity for everyone while they're on the ship. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by mianmike

[Goldconnection]

• Ships can skip the test voyages carrying volunteers and resume sailings with fare-paying passengers with 98 percent of crew and 95 percent of passengers fully vaccinated.

I took this to mean the remaining 5% must have at least one of two required vaccines since it reads “95 percent of passengers fully vaccinated” and for crew members it would be the remaining 2 percent must have at least one of two required vaccines. Just my thoughts. DH and I are fully vaccinated and have been for a while. We are 100% ready.

[KennyFla]

29 minutes ago, Goldconnection said:

• Ships can skip the test voyages carrying volunteers and resume sailings with fare-paying passengers with 98 percent of crew and 95 percent of passengers fully vaccinated.

I took this to mean the remaining 5% must have at least one of two required vaccines since it reads “95 percent of passengers fully vaccinated” and for crew members it would be the remaining 2 percent must have at least one of two required vaccines. Just my thoughts. DH and I are fully vaccinated and have been for a while. We are 100% ready.

 

This is a good point.  I at first did not read it that way, but the word "fully" may be the key there.

[chengkp75]

Hope I'm not accused of being the troll, and while it does provide positive action, if the cruise lines can submit detailed plans on how to accomplish and enforce the vaccination policy, many will likely have read over the requirement from the CDC on their "July start date" statement:  that the cruise lines still have to obtain the port agreements and provider contracts, which have been a stumbling block and bone of contention for the cruise lines, along with the vaccination protocol.  There are other areas of the CSO that apparently are not waived by the vaccine protocol, and would still require the acceptance of a detailed action plan.

[harkinmr]

6 hours ago, SpainAlien said:

 

Words matter. It’s “could”. Not “can”. Some other details in USA Today article linked below.  Lines must meet all other requirements of CSO including port agreements.  
 

To all those who have said that the CDC has not been listening to or working with the cruise lines, they obviously have.  
 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/04/28/cdc-cruises-could-restart-july/4883450001/?csp=chromepush

 

[At Sea At Peace]

2 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

This is a good point.  I at first did not read it that way, but the word "fully" may be the key there.

 

Also, I see no mention of those with natural immunity from infection?  I don't know and wonder what those people do as there are no scientific or medical conclusions yet on when or if such people should even get the vaccine?  Family members, adults, have been advised by their PCP's to not automatically get the vaccine.

 

I'm totally for 100% vaccinated crew and passengers. I don't get the 98% or 95% levels at all.  Guess we'll have to wait for that explanation.

 

I guess those with natural immunity will have to wait (to cruise) until the science is settled on that or the decide to get the vaccine.  It appears, IMO, the healthier and younger the remaining population groups are that there certainly are potential long-term issues regarding health and prospective health related matters and they are waiting for answers on that only time will provide.  The vaccines are currently only authorized for emergency use I believe? 

[NYcruzzer]

Per today's CDC statement what does this mean ? Cruise ship operators will also be allowed to enter into agreements with multiple ports instead of just one single port, as long as all local health authorities and all ports sign off.

[GA Dave]

25 minutes ago, NYcruzzer said:

Per today's CDC statement what does this mean ? Cruise ship operators will also be allowed to enter into agreements with multiple ports instead of just one single port, as long as all local health authorities and all ports sign off.

They can get Florida to approve them for Miami, Lauderdale, Canaveral and Tampa in one agreement instead if four different agreements.

[NYcruzzer]

2 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

They can get Florida to approve them for Miami, Lauderdale, Canaveral and Tampa in one agreement instead if four different agreements.

Got it. Thank you

[hallux]

40 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

Also, I see no mention of those with natural immunity from infection?  I don't know and wonder what those people do as there are no scientific or medical conclusions yet on when or if such people should even get the vaccine?  Family members, adults, have been advised by their PCP's to not automatically get the vaccine.

And how, exactly, do you prove "natural immunity".  Will they all be subjected to serology tests (the only way to PROVE it) to prove this?  I donated blood almost 2 weeks ago, the serology test on that sample took10 days to come back.  Can it return sooner?  Possibly, but that's been my experience and the last time I donated it took even longer to come back.  Where would one even go to have that test done?

 

As for the family members being advised by their PCP to not not automatically get the vaccine - my experience was the exact opposite, my PCP's office CALLED ME to offer the vaccine, and after advising them I'd had COVID, recovered and had not had a monoclonal infusion they told me to come in that day for the vaccine if I wanted it.  Oh, and my parents (in their 70's) both had COVID and were not advised NOT to get the vaccine...

[pinkie60]

52 minutes ago, hallux said:

And how, exactly, do you prove "natural immunity".  Will they all be subjected to serology tests (the only way to PROVE it) to prove this?  I donated blood almost 2 weeks ago, the serology test on that sample took10 days to come back.  Can it return sooner?  Possibly, but that's been my experience and the last time I donated it took even longer to come back.  Where would one even go to have that test done?

 

As for the family members being advised by their PCP to not not automatically get the vaccine - my experience was the exact opposite, my PCP's office CALLED ME to offer the vaccine, and after advising them I'd had COVID, recovered and had not had a monoclonal infusion they told me to come in that day for the vaccine if I wanted it.  Oh, and my parents (in their 70's) both had COVID and were not advised NOT to get the vaccine...

Wow if that isn’t confusing I don’t know what is. 

[Navis]

46 minutes ago, hallux said:

And how, exactly, do you prove "natural immunity".  Will they all be subjected to serology tests (the only way to PROVE it) to prove this?  I donated blood almost 2 weeks ago, the serology test on that sample took10 days to come back.  Can it return sooner?  Possibly, but that's been my experience and the last time I donated it took even longer to come back.  Where would one even go to have that test done?

 

As for the family members being advised by their PCP to not not automatically get the vaccine - my experience was the exact opposite, my PCP's office CALLED ME to offer the vaccine, and after advising them I'd had COVID, recovered and had not had a monoclonal infusion they told me to come in that day for the vaccine if I wanted it.  Oh, and my parents (in their 70's) both had COVID and were not advised NOT to get the vaccine...

Your experience seems to be aligned with the current science regarding natural immunity. And is also consistent with countries that are opening up to visitors staring later this spring. Look at Greece, they have 2 paths for entry ... fully vaccinated and those who have documented evidence of “recent” COVID infection. For Greece you must have recovered from infection no later than 90 days from the date of your planned departure to qualify as being “naturally immune.”

 

Up here, when you go in the sign in for your vaccine appointment they give you a 3 page disclosure document you need to read before your are taken to the vaccination bays. They say basic stuff like what vaccine you are getting, what the side effects could be, who to call if you have questions, etc.

 

 It also has a Q&A that has a bunch of stuff in there including “should I get a vaccine of I’ve already had COVID?” The answer says the vaccine is strongly recommended regardless of prior infection status (provided you are 60 days post-recovery). They go on to list why they feel that way including some powerful facts like (i) the immunity offered by the vaccines is broader than natural immunity and (ii) lasts far longer.  Basically they explain that natural immunity offers sufficient protection against reinfection from the same strain for a period of time, but offers insufficient protection against any strain with a protein spike variant from your initial strain. Vaccines, on the other hand, have shown to offer sufficient broad based immunity against known variants (for now that is and probably because they start from a baseline of 95% effective).  It also points out that studies HAVE been done on how long natural immunity lasts and it is observed to be about 90-120 days. As we know, vaccines offer sufficient protection for at least 6 months as of now. 

I’ve read of a few other countries that are following Greece and are allowing recent natural immunity to be considered vaccinated for a smaller window of time and I think this makes a lot of sense balancing the risks with the need to get back up and running.

 

Here’s the other thing, for tourism in general it seems clear these counties are really worried about tourists visiting and causing a strain on their medical systems. That’s why all these places are also requiring proof of medical insurance for entry as well (as of now for traditional land-based entry). They don’t want to find themselves stuck having to treat a whole boat load of people (forgive the pun).

 

That is where vaccines REALLY make a difference ... they are 95% effective against serious infection, yes .. but they are all 100% effective against death and hospitalization and that’s key. So, yeah natural immunity and age may prevent death ... but does it prevent hospitalization?  Will it offer these ports the same level of comfort that cruise ship passengers won’t burden their healthcare systems?

[At Sea At Peace]

1 hour ago, hallux said:

And how, exactly, do you prove "natural immunity".  Will they all be subjected to serology tests (the only way to PROVE it) to prove this?  I donated blood almost 2 weeks ago, the serology test on that sample took10 days to come back.  Can it return sooner?  Possibly, but that's been my experience and the last time I donated it took even longer to come back.  Where would one even go to have that test done?

 

As for the family members being advised by their PCP to not not automatically get the vaccine - my experience was the exact opposite, my PCP's office CALLED ME to offer the vaccine, and after advising them I'd had COVID, recovered and had not had a monoclonal infusion they told me to come in that day for the vaccine if I wanted it.  Oh, and my parents (in their 70's) both had COVID and were not advised NOT to get the vaccine...

 

The simple observation was that that segment of the population didn't appear to be addressed.

 

That's all.

 

Yikes.

 

Re: PCP, in which I "merely mentioned a family member."  IMO, a PCP takes the medical factors of each patient to make the recommendation when, or even if, to get the vaccination.

 

 

[At Sea At Peace]

10 minutes ago, Navis said:

Your experience seems to be aligned with the current science regarding natural immunity. And is also consistent with countries that are opening up to visitors staring later this spring. Look at Greece, they have 2 paths for entry ... fully vaccinated and those who have documented evidence of “recent” COVID infection. For Greece you must have recovered from infection no later than 90 days from the date of your planned departure to qualify as being “naturally immune.”

 

Up here, when you go in the sign in for your vaccine appointment they give you a 3 page disclosure document you need to read before your are taken to the vaccination bays. They say basic stuff like what vaccine you are getting, what the side effects could be, who to call if you have questions, etc.

 

 It also has a Q&A that has a bunch of stuff in there including “should I get a vaccine of I’ve already had COVID?” The answer says the vaccine is strongly recommended regardless of prior infection status (provided you are 60 days post-recovery). They go on to list why they feel that way including some powerful facts like (i) the immunity offered by the vaccines is broader than natural immunity and (ii) lasts far longer.  Basically they explain that natural immunity offers sufficient protection against reinfection from the same strain for a period of time, but offers insufficient protection against any strain with a protein spike variant from your initial strain. Vaccines, on the other hand, have shown to offer sufficient broad based immunity against known variants (for now that is and probably because they start from a baseline of 95% effective).  It also points out that studies HAVE been done on how long natural immunity lasts and it is observed to be about 90-120 days. As we know, vaccines offer sufficient protection for at least 6 months as of now. 

I’ve read of a few other countries that are following Greece and are allowing recent natural immunity to be considered vaccinated for a smaller window of time and I think this makes a lot of sense balancing the risks with the need to get back up and running.

 

Here’s the other thing, for tourism in general it seems clear these counties are really worried about tourists visiting and causing a strain on their medical systems. That’s why all these places are also requiring proof of medical insurance for entry as well (as of now for traditional land-based entry). They don’t want to find themselves stuck having to treat a whole boat load of people (forgive the pun).

 

That is where vaccines REALLY make a difference ... they are 95% effective against serious infection, yes .. but they are all 100% effective against death and hospitalization and that’s key. So, yeah natural immunity and age may prevent death ... but does it prevent hospitalization?  Will it offer these ports the same level of comfort that cruise ship passengers won’t burden their healthcare systems?

 

What a nice, informational and considerate response.  👍

[Travelicious]

So glad to see some positive movement on getting the industry going again!

[Stallion]

The facts are that the studies on under 16 year old vaccinated children have not been completed and the CDC likely won't allow them to cruise until there is solid evidence that they can not spread the virus after being vaccinated. 

[At Sea At Peace]

16 minutes ago, Middleager said:

There is no vaccination of children because there hasn't been enough tests of the vaccines.  Hopefully soon they'd have vaccines for children.

 

I hope that it will be a while before it is put forth that vaccines for kids are safe.  Basically, I believe that the vaccines were incredibly important for those at risk of death or serious illness and hospitalization.  That, as well as those with severe comorbidities, and certain settings like nursing homes, is where the vaccines have made a difference.  It also looks like Pfizer believes it will have a pill therapeutic by the end of the year.

 

Given that, and the fact that vaccines are only authorized for emergency use, I'm comfortable with taking time with all young people, "unless" they are risk of death or serious illness and hospitalization.

 

Regarding cruising, except for Disney, not having unvaccinated children "at first" should not be a dilemma. After a while, with 98% and 95% vaccinated crew and passengers, it would be nice for justification that unvaccinated, but tested, children pose a risk to the other passengers.  Yes, I'm aware of the 94-95% efficacy.  Nothing will be risk free.

 

Quote

 

Children do get infected, but they tend not to get sick or even show symptoms.  They were not tested much before, but in the example of the school in Thorncliff area, they found out many children were infected, and in turn goes back home and infect their household.  A few days ago a 13-yr girl died in ON.  There's another case of a 2-yr old died in BC.

 

In one family my church has been helping, the single mom got sick, then tested positive.  The 3 children did not show symptoms, but when they get tested, they were all positive.

 

What we see locally is close to home.  It's hard, painful.  However, at some point, isolated instances in the wee %'s of deaths and severe illness and hospitalizations are really statistically irrelevant to the continuation of lives and economies on an entire planet.  Does that help those that suffered such an awful fate?  Do I want to be in that experience.  No and no. 

 

What do most of us, as grandparents, do after we are vaccinated and termed?  We are visiting our sons and daughters, in-laws and hugging the heck out of our grandkids.  It's not risk free, but life for the last 13+ months and counting without them was brutal and vaccines are promoted as essentially effective against death or even hospitalization.  

 

Hope to see cruising crawl back, safely and then build up steam.  Looking forward to, hopefully, MSC Seashore on a B2B the first couple of weeks of December 2021.

Edited April 29, 2021 by At Sea At Peace

[rachiem]

Maybe they are stating 95% as there could be a crew member who can’t have the vaccine for a medical reason. 
Seems unfair for someone to loose their job if they can’t have the vaccine but rely on that job and have done it well for years? 

[graphicguy]

Key here, we do not WANT any super spreader events regardless of age because a group was not vaccinated.  The CDC (and most definitely, NCL) wasn't to keep that from happening.  Children can spread it.  That doesn't make them bad.  It's just that the vaccine is and has been administered from oldest to younger first.  Why we're debating this is beyond me.

 

Besides, NCL is requiring ALL CREW AND PASSENGERS to have the COVID vaccine.  So, if you don't have your young ones vaccinated, they can not cruise.  If you are not vaccinated, you can't cruise.  If any of the crew isn't vaccinated, they can't even board the ship.

 

NCL isn't 95%, they're not even 97%.  100% have to be vaccinated against COVID.  There is NO debate with them.  For that, I'm thankful and the ONLY reason I decided to book with them.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by graphicguy

[sugcarol]

I look at the 95/98 number differently. You can be fully vaccinated but the efficacy is 95 to 98%, meaning there is a 5% chance of getting Covid even after vax. That is the reason they require a test for vaccinated passengers. The chances are reduced that one of the passengers will be one of the very few that the vaccine didnt work in the scheme of things. There will never be 100% on anything. When this mess started the CDC said herd immunity in any area where no more than 15% of hospital beds due to Covid is the goal. We reached that long ago. Tests are coming up positive, but how serious and deadly are those new cases? The media is salivating any news about reactions, they are the ones that cause people to doubt. JandJ have been administered to over 8 million people and only 15 people had blood clots. I will take that % any day of the week. That is a % of a% of a %

Edited April 29, 2021 by sugcarol

[CroozFanatic]

At least we can be certain that the 98% of crew and 95% of passengers numbers weren't just plucked out of thin air. I'm sure there is sold scientific evidence why the numbers aren't 99% and 96%, or 49% and 46%. I feel safe.

[sugcarol]

10 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

At least we can be certain that the 98% of crew and 95% of passengers numbers weren't just plucked out of thin air. I'm sure there is sold scientific evidence why the numbers aren't 99% and 96%, or 49% and 46%. I feel safe.

Me too! The only reason they paused of JandJwas due to the blow up by the media, no way would have even paused it with that kind of %. its a case where people panuc because the media considers "any" news a catastrophy.

Edited April 30, 2021 by sugcarol