CDC say you can sail mid July

[macandlucy]

Any cruise ship that has more than 80% (being extra conservative here) of the humans onboard immune (by vax or prior infection) will have, by definition, herd immunity. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by macandlucy

[Stallion]

theoretically--hopefully--but the point at which herd immunity existed is not precisely established by science yet with regard to Covid. The CDC currently projects herd immunity at 70%-85%

[ChutChut]

4 hours ago, Shidah said:

Not thinking children would die on board, but picture a cruise line allowing 5% unvaccinated children on board.  They all interact in the kids club ( which should be closed until the pandemic is completely over, but let’s say it is not).  A few get sick, covid or even non-covid until testing can confirm and it turns into a nightmare.  Ports will not allow the ship to disembark, salivating media outlets all jump on board the story, everyone gets quarantined to their cabins, and cruising gets shut down again by an over zealous CDC.  No one wants this to happen.  Keep kids off the ships until a vaccine is approved for them, which I predict will happen within 2 -3 months.  

I get what you're saying but that could happen if one goes into port and gets infected (even having been vaccinated) by someone at a market, church, etc. and comes back on the ship. I just wonder what lines like Disney, etc. will do as their customer base is, basically, children.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Stallion said:

theoretically--hopefully--but the point at which herd immunity existed is not precisely established by science yet with regard to Covid. The CDC currently projects herd immunity at 70%-85%

Depending upon when you ask Fauci.  He's been known to change the numbers.

 

Fauci: "When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent," Fauci said. "Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85."

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/vinay-prasad/90445

[CaptainHazelwood]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Depending upon when you ask Fauci.  He's been known to change the numbers.

 

Fauci: "When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent," Fauci said. "Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85."

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/vinay-prasad/90445

Why does anybody listen to this clown any more?

[macandlucy]

6 hours ago, Stallion said:

theoretically--hopefully--but the point at which herd immunity existed is not precisely established by science yet with regard to Covid. The CDC currently projects herd immunity at 70%-85%

Considering that NCL want all pax and crew vaccinated, I think we’ll be good. Can’t get better than 100%.
 

[RocketMan275]

On 5/1/2021 at 6:42 PM, CaptainHazelwood said:

Why does anybody listen to this clown any more?

Many have asked that question.

[farmersfight]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:33 PM, pinkie60 said:

Well said🥰

 

Hi. Would you mind sending me an e-mail? My e-mail address is;  martycp60@gmail.com

[Tippyton]

On 4/29/2021 at 8:59 AM, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Also, I see no mention of those with natural immunity from infection?  I don't know and wonder what those people do as there are no scientific or medical conclusions yet on when or if such people should even get the vaccine?  Family members, adults, have been advised by their PCP's to not automatically get the vaccine.

 

I'm totally for 100% vaccinated crew and passengers. I don't get the 98% or 95% levels at all.  Guess we'll have to wait for that explanation.

 

I guess those with natural immunity will have to wait (to cruise) until the science is settled on that or the decide to get the vaccine.  It appears, IMO, the healthier and younger the remaining population groups are that there certainly are potential long-term issues regarding health and prospective health related matters and they are waiting for answers on that only time will provide.  The vaccines are currently only authorized for emergency use I believe? 

Ah - I am a member of the forgotten 20%.  Let's see....  1.  The vaccine is authorized for EMERGENCY USE.  2.  When in the history have we forced vaccines on people who have had the target disease, let alone one authorized only FOR EMERGENCY USE??  3.   The EMERGENCY USE vaccine was never tested on previously infected individuals.

 

ALL of the science points to natural immunity being as good or better than vaccines (yes it's more than the detectable antibodies).  I have a copy of my positive Covid results from October, and my PCP has it too.  When will we be included on all the fun?  Note - I have been saying this for MONTHS.  I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I still want to see the science that I need one.  Otherwise, we need to be considered just as immune as vaccinated folks.

[mianmike]

1 hour ago, Tippyton said:

Ah - I am a member of the forgotten 20%.  Let's see....  1.  The vaccine is authorized for EMERGENCY USE.  2.  When in the history have we forced vaccines on people who have had the target disease, let alone one authorized only FOR EMERGENCY USE??  3.   The EMERGENCY USE vaccine was never tested on previously infected individuals.

 

ALL of the science points to natural immunity being as good or better than vaccines (yes it's more than the detectable antibodies).  I have a copy of my positive Covid results from October, and my PCP has it too.  When will we be included on all the fun?  Note - I have been saying this for MONTHS.  I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I still want to see the science that I need one.  Otherwise, we need to be considered just as immune as vaccinated folks.

 

The U.S. Marines are finding the vaccine is better.  

 

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2021/04/16/having-covid-doesnt-guarantee-immunity-study-of-marine-recruits-finds/

[SpainAlien]

3 hours ago, Tippyton said:

The EMERGENCY USE vaccine was never tested on previously infected individuals.

The AZ vaccine has been given to millions of people in the UK who were previously infected without any major side effects, the same with Pfizer and Moderna in USA and EU so I don't think that you can claim that anymore 

[pmd98052]

4 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Ah - I am a member of the forgotten 20%.  Let's see....  1.  The vaccine is authorized for EMERGENCY USE.  2.  When in the history have we forced vaccines on people who have had the target disease, let alone one authorized only FOR EMERGENCY USE??  3.   The EMERGENCY USE vaccine was never tested on previously infected individuals.

 

ALL of the science points to natural immunity being as good or better than vaccines (yes it's more than the detectable antibodies).  I have a copy of my positive Covid results from October, and my PCP has it too.  When will we be included on all the fun?  Note - I have been saying this for MONTHS.  I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I still want to see the science that I need one.  Otherwise, we need to be considered just as immune as vaccinated folks.

 

I don't understand. No one is forcing a vaccine on you. You do not have to cruise. Cruising is not a compulsory life choice like breathing and such.

[Tippyton]

5 hours ago, pmd98052 said:

 

I don't understand. No one is forcing a vaccine on you. You do not have to cruise. Cruising is not a compulsory life choice like breathing and such.

I'm not cruising anytime soon for a lot of reasons regardless of the vaccine.  MY point was to support the other commenter regarding not only the insistence on science (but only when convenient) but the mere fact that the 20% of us that have had it are not being addressed in a sound medical/scientific manner, if at all.  Our status is ignored and that's not right nor is it science.

[Sinbadssailors]

7 hours ago, SpainAlien said:

The AZ vaccine has been given to millions of people in the UK who were previously infected without any major side effects, the same with Pfizer and Moderna in USA and EU so I don't think that you can claim that anymore 

AZ is not given in the US.  Hasn't been approved even for emergency use.

 

The others are not approved, just allowed under emergency use.

 

 

[Sinbadssailors]

1 hour ago, Tippyton said:

I'm not cruising anytime soon for a lot of reasons regardless of the vaccine.  MY point was to support the other commenter regarding not only the insistence on science (but only when convenient) but the mere fact that the 20% of us that have had it are not being addressed in a sound medical/scientific manner, if at all.  Our status is ignored and that's not right nor is it science.

 

You're not supposed to think about it, you're just supposed to do it. 

 

Or be shunned

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/04/30/require-covid-vaccine-resume-normal-life-herd-immunity-column/4886673001/

 

 

[NikiPinkston]

11 hours ago, Tippyton said:

ALL of the science points to natural immunity being as good or better than vaccines (yes it's more than the detectable antibodies).  I have a copy of my positive Covid results from October, and my PCP has it too.  When will we be included on all the fun?  Note - I have been saying this for MONTHS.  I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I still want to see the science that I need one.  Otherwise, we need to be considered just as immune as vaccinated folks.

I had posted this before, but I think it bears repeating. According to a new study by scientists at UC Irvine, the antibodies created by the MRNA vaccines are 10 times stronger than antibodies from having had covid.  Another huge benefit is that MRNA vaccines allow the immune system to recognize other novel coronavirus strains.

 

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2021/04/28/which-is-better-for-developing-immunity-covid-19-vaccine-or-natural-infection/

[NikiPinkston]

10 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

The U.S. Marines are finding the vaccine is better.  

 

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2021/04/16/having-covid-doesnt-guarantee-immunity-study-of-marine-recruits-finds/

Thank you for posting this.  Great info!

[susiesan]

Information just out :

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24942-cdc-will-eliminate-cruise-ship-buffet-require-organized-shore-excursions.html

 

This is the most troubling part:

 

The CDC has also said cruise lines must "prohibit self-guided or independent exploration by passengers during port stops

 

That is a deal killer for me. No information on dates of when these new rules apply or expire.

 

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, susiesan said:

Information just out :

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24942-cdc-will-eliminate-cruise-ship-buffet-require-organized-shore-excursions.html

 

This is the most troubling part:

 

The CDC has also said cruise lines must "prohibit self-guided or independent exploration by passengers during port stops

 

That is a deal killer for me. No information on dates of when these new rules apply or expire.

 

These are the requirements for both the "simulated" cruises and the "restricted" cruises (revenue cruises after successful simulated cruises, or with vaccinated pax/crew), so they will be the norm for any cruise from the US when they restart, and will last until the CDC revises their instructions, or until the CSO expires (1 Nov 2021, unless extended).

[CaptainHazelwood]

There's still a lot of stupid going on.  Hopefully it blows over by my October cruise.

[Tippyton]

8 hours ago, Sinbadssailors said:

 

You're not supposed to think about it, you're just supposed to do it. 

 

Or be shunned

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/04/30/require-covid-vaccine-resume-normal-life-herd-immunity-column/4886673001/

 

 

That word reminds me of "Witness".  BTW that newspaper is suitable for birdcages.

  

[coffeebean]

20 hours ago, Tippyton said:

ALL of the science points to natural immunity being as good or better than vaccines (yes it's more than the detectable antibodies).  I have a copy of my positive Covid results from October, and my PCP has it too.  When will we be included on all the fun?  Note - I have been saying this for MONTHS.  I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I still want to see the science that I need one.  Otherwise, we need to be considered just as immune as vaccinated folks.

Not really, not when it comes to Covid vaccines. Natural immunity does not protect against the virus variants. The mRNA vaccines are doing a very good job, so far, of protecting against the varinants, including the South African and UK variants. That is certainly better protection than natural immunity from the original Covid strain.

 

Then, I don't know how this works but if someone has been exposed to one of the variants and becomes ill, is that natural immunity going to protect them from the original strain of Covid? That is something to ponder.

 

The mRNA vaccines do cover the original strain and some of these variants and are quite protective with a high efficiency. I have not researched anything about the J&J vaccine as no one in my family or circle of friends has received that vaccine.

 

 

[Tippyton]

9 hours ago, NikiPinkston said:

I had posted this before, but I think it bears repeating. According to a new study by scientists at UC Irvine, the antibodies created by the MRNA vaccines are 10 times stronger than antibodies from having had covid.  Another huge benefit is that MRNA vaccines allow the immune system to recognize other novel coronavirus strains.

 

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2021/04/28/which-is-better-for-developing-immunity-covid-19-vaccine-or-natural-infection/

Yup.  Distractions from the big picture and focus on the inconsequential seem to be de rigueur du jour.  Nobody here debating vaccine effectiveness. 

 

We both have bulletproof vests, just made differently.  I'll take 95% over nothing.  99.6% is even better.  If I have the latter why do I need the former, and why does mine  not count for protection?  

 

20% of us have good protection and it needs to be recognized .

 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/covid-19-reinfection-rate-around-0-4-epic-data-suggests.html

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Tippyton

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Ah - I am a member of the forgotten 20%.  Let's see....  1.  The vaccine is authorized for EMERGENCY USE.  2.  When in the history have we forced vaccines on people who have had the target disease, let alone one authorized only FOR EMERGENCY USE??  3.   The EMERGENCY USE vaccine was never tested on previously infected individuals.

 

ALL of the science points to natural immunity being as good or better than vaccines (yes it's more than the detectable antibodies).  I have a copy of my positive Covid results from October, and my PCP has it too.  When will we be included on all the fun?  Note - I have been saying this for MONTHS.  I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I still want to see the science that I need one.  Otherwise, we need to be considered just as immune as vaccinated folks.

Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity according to several sources. This is one article on the subject. There are more if you do some research.......

 

Immune Response From mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines Is More Robust Than Natural Infection

[coffeebean]

On 4/30/2021 at 3:32 PM, hallux said:

Exactly.  And what happens if they have the 5% non-vaccinated booked and a few vaccinated either cancel last minute or are denied boarding for some reason.  Do they kick off a random unvaccinated person to meet the threshold?

Logistical nightmare comes to mind.