Texas joins lawsuit against CDC

[BSocial]

https://www.cruisehive.com/texas-joins-florida-lawsuit-to-overrule-cdc-and-restart-cruises/50521

 

Link to full Texas filing

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/images/admin/2021/Press/Motion to Intervene.pdf

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by BSocial
Added 2nd link

[livingonthebeach]

Just read the CDC's memorandum in its defense -- not looking good for Florida, Alaska or Texas -- following is part of it:

 

Case 8:21-cv-00839-SDM-AAS Document 31 Filed 05/05/21 Page 4 of 46 PageID 1563

 

"First, Plaintiff lacks standing to bring suit in the first place. The CSO regulates cruise lines, not states. And Plaintiff cannot save its claim to standing by asserting the alleged injuries of its residents as parens patriae, or by relying on indirect declines in general tax revenues.

 

Second, Plaintiff sat on its supposed rights for well over a year while cruise ship operations were restricted. It cannot now establish that irreparable harm would be prevented by letting cruise ships resume operations slightly more quickly than CDC believes is necessary to protect the public’s health.

 

Third, Plaintiff cannot establish a likelihood of success on the merits of their claims. To start, even if the State of Florida were within the zone of interests of the relevant statute—and it is not—the CDC has acted lawfully and reasonably in setting conditions on the operation of cruise ships, pursuant to clear authority to regulate vessels intending to operate in U.S. ports. The administrative record will show that the agency considered relevant factors, engaged in reasoned decision-making, and came to reasonable conclusions, especially given the extraordinary deference due to Defendants during the ongoing public health emergency.

 

Moreover, in order to bring an “unreasonable delay” claim like the one here, Plaintiff must identify a specific, mandatory agency action that has been delayed; it cannot do so, and the CDC acted reasonably because, under current guidance, cruise ship operators may conduct simulated voyages and commence restricted passenger voyages by mid-summer.

 

Next, Defendants are not required to conduct notice-and-comment rulemaking to condition a license or enter an order under existing regulations during the pendency of a global public health emergency; and Defendants in any event have demonstrated good cause because they did in fact solicit, receive and consider public comments. Finally, Plaintiff has failed to state a claim under the “nondelegation” doctrine because Congress has provided the CDC with manageable standards to apply.

 

Finally, the balance of equities tips sharply in Defendants’ favor, as the threat of further COVID-19 outbreaks on board cruise lines decisively outweighs any economic injury to Plaintiff. For any or all of these reasons, the Court should deny the motion for a preliminary injunction."

 

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flmd.388773/gov.uscourts.flmd.388773.31.0.pdf

Edited May 10, 2021 by livingonthebeach

[Big_G]

That's just the CDC arguments. They may or may not be valid but what matters is what a judge determines. 

[firefly333]

Could be something in nuisance value for the cdc to keep finding itself in court defending itself. Cant hurt imo. Keep biting the ankles of the cdc.

[d9704011]

5 minutes ago, Big_G said:

That's just the CDC arguments. They may or may not be valid but what matters is what a judge determines. 

Yes, the judge will eventually rule on the merits of each side’s claims.

 

In the meanwhile, do you have an opinion?  I think the CDC’s arguments are pretty strong.

[d9704011]

Just now, firefly333 said:

Could be something in nuisance value for the cdc to keep finding itself in court defending itself. Cant hurt imo. Keep biting the ankles of the cdc.

They’ve got armies of lawyers with all kinds of time to argue this.  The Public Health Emergency will be declared over and the CSO will be expired before any decision on this case is made.

[flamingos]

I want to cruise, but safely.  I do not want my tax dollars spent by my governor on this frivolous lawsuit.

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

The CDC mentions in the document (full text in link above) that test cruises and limited revenue cruises are slated for Mid July so my guess is those scheduled for the first two weeks are probably a no go.  

 

The judge will decide on the merits but I feel the CDC has some pretty strong arguments.  As has been mentioned, by the time the decision is made it will be moot.  

[firefly333]

15 minutes ago, flamingos said:

I want to cruise, but safely.  I do not want my tax dollars spent by my governor on this frivolous lawsuit.

 

 

And I dont want my tax dollars spent on the cdc stopping the cruise industry. Wish I could fire the whole lot of them. Tired of the power grab.

 

Like either of us has any say in the matter. Doesnt matter what you and I want our tax dollars spent on.

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

And I dont want my tax dollars spent on the cdc stopping the cruise industry. Wish I could fire the whole lot of them. Tired of the power grab.

 

Like either of us has any say in the matter. Doesnt matter what you and I want our tax dollars spent on.

 

There's a lot of money being spent by 3 states and the federal government on something that could have been more easily and expeditiously worked out between the cruise lines and the CDC. 

[Auntiemomo]

If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon.  You need someone to push them, but I wouldn't count on it being done under the current administration.  The state Governors need to keep nipping at their heels.    They want you to mask and double mask both indoors and outside well into 2023.  

 

I'm so done with Fauci and Co.  They are just making it up as they go along.  "Follow the science" is nothing more than a talking point.   That's why our kids in some states are still not in school, and they want to push out cruising until they have eradicated this virus, which ain't going to happen.   

[Stallion]

Judge won't decide on the merits-judge will either grant or deny temporary injunction. If denied, then the case proceeds to trial. If granted-there may be avenues of immediate appeal-which I'm not sure are applicable. If temporary injunction granted that may generally have a tendency to encourage settlement. But the case continues

Edited May 10, 2021 by Stallion

[livingonthebeach]

 

2 minutes ago, Stallion said:

Judge won't decide on the merits-judge will either grant or deny temporary restraining order. If denied, then the case proceeds to trial. If granted-there may be avenues of immediate appeal-which I'm not sure are applicable. If temporary injunction granted that may generally have a tendency to encourage settlement. But the case continues

 

The judge is a Bush appointee, Steven Douglas Merryday.  What are your thoughts on the granting / denying the injunction?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Douglas_Merryday

[grandgeezer]

34 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

And I dont want my tax dollars spent on the cdc stopping the cruise industry. Wish I could fire the whole lot of them. Tired of the power grab.

 

Like either of us has any say in the matter. Doesnt matter what you and I want our tax dollars spent on.

If you are going to fire them you might as well fire Fain and his management team as they've done very little to solve the problem while their company is losing in the neighborhood of $300,000,000 per month like it has for over the last year.

[Big_G]

54 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Yes, the judge will eventually rule on the merits of each side’s claims.

 

In the meanwhile, do you have an opinion?  I think the CDC’s arguments are pretty strong.

When an argument side steps the real issue, which is why an industry is being held to higher standard, my opinion is they are wrong.  That doesn't always translate to a victory for the plaintiff. There are othrer issues that come into play including politics.

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

If you are going to fire them you might as well fire Fain and his management team as they've done very little to solve the problem while their company is losing in the neighborhood of $300,000,000 per month like it has for over the last year.

 

NCL came up with an elaborate plan and submitted it to the CDC a while back and it was rejected.  So no matter what Fain would have done it wouldn't have worked with the CDC and he would be back to square one and right where he is right now.  The CDC is a tough barrier to cross.  

[livingonthebeach]

20 minutes ago, Auntiemomo said:

If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon.  You need someone to push them, but I wouldn't count on it being done under the current administration.  The state Governors need to keep nipping at their heels.    They want you to mask and double mask both indoors and outside well into 2023.  

 

I'm so done with Fauci and Co.  They are just making it up as they go along.  "Follow the science" is nothing more than a talking point.   That's why our kids in some states are still not in school, and they want to push out cruising until they have eradicated this virus, which ain't going to happen.   

 

The FDA is the federal agency that grants approvals for vaccines and it hasn't been officially approved - it's only approved for EUA.  

[Big_G]

59 minutes ago, flamingos said:

I want to cruise, but safely.  I do not want my tax dollars spent by my governor on this frivolous lawsuit.

 

 

The governors are losing revenue so I'm not sure they'd agree that it's frivolous.

[Pratique]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

Just read the CDC's memorandum in its defense -- not looking good for Florida, Alaska or Texas 

 

I have not read the Texas brief but Alaska was arguing more narrowly than Florida. Essentially Alaska was only arguing against the part of the CSO that affected shoreside infrastructure requirements. It is possible that the judge could issue a temporary injunction that is narrowly tailored to the relief that the states *might* be entitled to without blocking the entire CSO, which would effectively change nothing.

[At Sea At Peace]

1 hour ago, Auntiemomo said:

If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon.  You need someone to push them, but I wouldn't count on it being done under the current administration.  The state Governors need to keep nipping at their heels.    They want you to mask and double mask both indoors and outside well into 2023.  

 

I'm so done with Fauci and Co.  They are just making it up as they go along.  "Follow the science" is nothing more than a talking point.   That's why our kids in some states are still not in school, and they want to push out cruising until they have eradicated this virus, which ain't going to happen.   

 

Great post.

 

(OMG, another member of sound mind.  What a day I found two more.  😲👍)

[livingonthebeach]

23 minutes ago, Pratique said:

I have not read the Texas brief but Alaska was arguing more narrowly than Florida. Essentially Alaska was only arguing against the part of the CSO that affected shoreside infrastructure requirements. It is possible that the judge could issue a temporary injunction that is narrowly tailored to the relief that the states *might* be entitled to without blocking the entire CSO, which would effectively change nothing.

 

I believe Texas points also to lost revenue and loss of cruise visitor spending --  about $65 million they say and that cruise ships accounted for 47% of the Port of Galveston’s revenue in 2019. 

 

Alaska, I believe is saying they lost 3 billion.  Alaska, until Florida and Texas don't have a plethora of other industries to offset that lost revenue. 

 

 

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, Auntiemomo said:

If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon. 

Huh? What did the CDC have to do with vaccine development? 

[not-enough-cruising]

9 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Huh? What did the CDC have to do with vaccine development? 

Absolutely NOTHING 

[Pratique]

23 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Alaska, I believe is saying they lost 3 billion.  Alaska, until Florida and Texas don't have a plethora of other industries to offset that lost revenue. 

Time to diversify.

[livingonthebeach]

30 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Time to diversify.

 

LOL - like offer more of their sled dog ice fishing trips?