Is anybody else going to miss HAL's smaller ships?

[sevigny]

We would definitely be willing to pay more to cruise on a smaller ship.  That’s what’s happening with our Azamara cruise.  So miss the Prinsendam, she was perfect for us.

[Hflors]

7 hours ago, DeeDee Groff said:

 

Every time I see an image of one of those behemoths I shudder!

When I see one pull into a port I am visiting I want to turn around and get back on the ship.  I hate fighting crowds!!!

[cruisemom42]

I think discussion around a new small ship for HAL is just a pipe dream. 

 

If they couldn't keep Prinsendam as a going concern, even given the (modestly) higher prices for her voyages, how could HAL build a new ship at a higher cost per foot -- or however they figure marine costs -- and keep her prices in line with what most HAL customers would or could pay?

 

It's quite clear to me -- even more clear since the sales last year -- that HAL's future is not in small ships. Period. 

 

I would be delightfully happy if proven wrong...

 

 

[jimmy2x]

Guess I’ll be the contrarian here. Our first cruise was on the Ryndam many years ago. We had a great time (10 days) and were hooked. Fast forward to last year and 11 days on the Koningsdam. So far as the ship experience goes, was the best ever. The stern pool area was great with the larger pool and plenty of shaded areas to avoid sunburn. The Cat V cabin was a bit smaller but well appointed. 
 

The biggest improvement was music, dancing and entertainment area near the bow. We had a great time every night. A far cry from the old ocean bar. Remember the guys that received a free cruise in exchange for dancing with unescorted ladies?  I do. 
 

The biggest disappointment was the Crows Nest. The “entertainment “ was poor at best in the evening and we missed the relatively quiet atmosphere during the day. And also the larger promenade decks on the older ships where there was actually room for lounge chairs. 

We will be on the Nieu Statendam for 21 days next February. 1st B to B ever. And the longest cruise (excluding 9 and 10 month cruises with the USN). Booked this 5 months ago and was able to get a decent price. It appears that pricing has gone up considerably since then so for once I was ahead of the curve. Can’t wait. 
 

 

 

[iancal]

Some of those ships will still be sailing. 

 

And they will be even better than before.  New owners have invested hundreds of millions of dollars bring them up to standard.

 

It seems fairly clear where the mass market lines like Princess, HAL, Celebrity will be going in terms of market direction and size of ship.

 

New label on the funnel and perhaps some new itineraries.

Edited June 1, 2021 by iancal

[Florida_gal_50]

2 hours ago, jimmy2x said:

Guess I’ll be the contrarian here. Our first cruise was on the Ryndam many years ago. We had a great time (10 days) and were hooked. Fast forward to last year and 11 days on the Koningsdam. So far as the ship experience goes, was the best ever. The stern pool area was great with the larger pool and plenty of shaded areas to avoid sunburn. The Cat V cabin was a bit smaller but well appointed. 
 

The biggest improvement was music, dancing and entertainment area near the bow. We had a great time every night. A far cry from the old ocean bar. Remember the guys that received a free cruise in exchange for dancing with unescorted ladies?  I do. 
 

The biggest disappointment was the Crows Nest. The “entertainment “ was poor at best in the evening and we missed the relatively quiet atmosphere during the day. And also the larger promenade decks on the older ships where there was actually room for lounge chairs. 

We will be on the Nieu Statendam for 21 days next February. 1st B to B ever. And the longest cruise (excluding 9 and 10 month cruises with the USN). Booked this 5 months ago and was able to get a decent price. It appears that pricing has gone up considerably since then so for once I was ahead of the curve. Can’t wait. 
 

 

 

I agree with you 100%.  The nieuw statendam is my fav.

[rkacruiser]

6 hours ago, iancal said:

And they will be even better than before.  New owners have invested hundreds of millions of dollars bring them up to standard.

 

That has yet to be proven for all of the ships that HAL have left the fleet.

 

Millions of dollars spent?  As far as we know.  But, do we know the "proof of the pudding" as to the actual product yet?  

 

 

[iancal]

Certainly it has been reported that big bucks were spend on Prinsendam to bring the ship up to a level commensurate with it's target market.

 

The only way to find out is to book a cruise on one of those discarded ships that we purchased in order to be place in service.  Or get a reliable report from someone who has done  just that.

 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

Certainly it has been reported that big bucks were spend on Prinsendam to bring the ship up to a level commensurate with it's target market.

 

I would love to do so.  Unfortunately, my two years of college German is a bit rusty.  I was able to "get by" in Germany for a few days.  But, for the length of a cruise?  

[Himself]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:46 AM, atexsix said:

I was devastated when I heard about the Amsterdam especially, I understand the business decision making involved, but I'm really going to miss seeing them in our local waters, they looked so elegant and graceful and classic.  

 

At least HAL's newer ships still look like ships and not a skyscraper turned on its side.  I showed a picture to someone of the Prima, NCL's upcoming latest/greatest; it's different looking, but I don't know...not really my cup of tea, nor are indoor promenades and central parks. 

 

Long live HAL!

 

 

Frankly I will not miss the S Class ships.  I was never that fond of the Rotterdam but I loved the Amsterdam and was sad to see her leave the fleet.  I am glad they are keeping the Volendam and Zaandam.

[TiogaCruiser]

25 minutes ago, Himself said:

 

 

Frankly I will not miss the S Class ships.  I was never that fond of the Rotterdam but I loved the Amsterdam and was sad to see her leave the fleet.  I am glad they are keeping the Volendam and Zaandam.

Father, all 4 you listed are R class.

 

S class was Statendam, Ryndam, Veendam and Maasdam.

[cruisemom42]

15 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I would love to do so.  Unfortunately, my two years of college German is a bit rusty.  I was able to "get by" in Germany for a few days.  But, for the length of a cruise?  

 

Would it be any different or more difficult than spending a week or two weeks (or the length of the voyage) in Germany?

 

A majority of Germans (and especially among those who travel) speak some English. I have found this to be true -- I work for a global company that is headquartered in Germany and have traveled there relatively often.

 

But it's true (or so I've read) that most announcements are in German. 

 

Vis-a-vis a different conversation we were having, Smart phones are a great tool for things like quick translation.

[rkacruiser]

6 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

A majority of Germans (and especially among those who travel) speak some English. I have found this to be true

Don't doubt what you are saying and my experience is from many years ago.

 

Hamburg's train station:  needing to board a train for Bremerhaven.  Could not find anyone who spoke English--no one--not at the Information Desk--no one--at least that would admit to being able to speak English.  

 

So many tracks; so many trains; trains that come and arrive and soon leave on the same track that our train was to be on.  As best as I could determine with my knowledge of German.  A train pulls in with multiple cars going to a few destinations, one of which was Bremerhaven.  I felt somewhat "confident" that we are at the right platform, but which train car for certain?  A conductor was approaching and I asked in probably the worst German he ever heard:  Which car to Bremerhaven?  His answer, as he pointed, zwei.  We boarded the 2nd car and my friend asked, is this the right car?  I said:  We will soon find out.  

 

Just another travel adventure and memory!  

[iancal]

There is always Fred Olsen.  Or Viking, or.....

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by iancal

[Hlitner]

While we enjoy smaller ships we never appreciated that the smaller, older, HAL vessels had few to no balcony options unless one wanted to spend the much bigger bucks for a suite.  Compare that to the relatively small ships of other lines (such as Oceania or Seabourn) where balconies represent a high proportion of all cabins and are reasonably priced.   When Princess launched the Grand Princess over 20 years ago we thought it was a game changer because of the tremendous number of cabins with balconies....sold at a very reasonable cost (often less then HAL sold an outside cabin with no balcony).  As the years went on and balcony cabins became very common on ships of all sizes, HAL still held on to their older ships with few balconies.  Now, HAL is ever further behind the trends since their ships lack the "ship within a ship" amenities found on several other lines.   We still like HAL, but now prefer to stick with the Vista Class forward.

 

Hank

[Aardvaark]

All but one of our HA cruises have been on the smaller ships.  This one (Westerdam) would be second of the larger variety.  Still, we'll do this cruise if the virus requirements ever get sorted out to our satisfaction.  We'll keep watch here.

[JeffElizabeth]

On 6/1/2021 at 6:15 AM, Hflors said:

When I see one pull into a port I am visiting I want to turn around and get back on the ship.  I hate fighting crowds!!!

We had an MSC ship pull into a small Norwegian port, it dwarfed our Prinsendam.  And the crowds engulfed the town. So glad we had arrived four hours earlier. 

[nocl]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:46 AM, iancal said:

Some of those ships will still be sailing. 

 

And they will be even better than before.  New owners have invested hundreds of millions of dollars bring them up to standard.

 

It seems fairly clear where the mass market lines like Princess, HAL, Celebrity will be going in terms of market direction and size of ship.

 

New label on the funnel and perhaps some new itineraries.

As well as a new, higher price point for fares.

[cruisemom42]

21 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

We had an MSC ship pull into a small Norwegian port, it dwarfed our Prinsendam.  And the crowds engulfed the town. So glad we had arrived four hours earlier. 

 

Similar experience: I was on a very small (350 pax) ship tied up alongside Venice's San Basilio pier (the pier for smaller ships) and eating my breakfast outside on the rear deck when a HUGE Costa ship passed directly by us. It seriously felt like being on a small dinghy. The passengers on their decks looking down at us might as well have been atop the Venice campanile looking down at the people in St. Mark's piazza.

 

[JeffElizabeth]

It will be interesting to see if a significant percentage of the population decides to never cruise again, especially on the 2000 plus passenger ships. Cruise lines might find they have a bunch of half empty boats. 

[Hlitner]

I have to agree with CruiseMom.  Folks that expect mass market lines like HAL to build new smaller ships are going to have a rude awakening.  Small and even medium size ships do not have the necessary economies of scale to operate at mass market prices.  Small ships will continue to exist but most will be on the ultra luxury lines with perhaps a few in the so-called Premium class (such as Oceania or Azamara).  It broke my heart when HAL got rid of the Prinsendam (our favorite HAL vessel) because not only did we really enjoy that ship but we sensed we were nearing the end of an era when once could still find smaller vessels at mass market prices.  Our next three cruises are on smaller ships (450 and 600, and 1250  passenger) but we must bite the bullet and pay more for those size vessels.  I know that many HAL fans love smaller and medium size ships and they will each need to decide if they want to pay more money (then HAL prices) to continue to cruise on those size vessels or compromise and expand their horizons and ship sizes.

 

Hank

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I have to agree with CruiseMom.  Folks that expect mass market lines like HAL to build new smaller ships are going to have a rude awakening.  Small and even medium size ships do not have the necessary economies of scale to operate at mass market prices.  Small ships will continue to exist but most will be on the ultra luxury lines with perhaps a few in the so-called Premium class (such as Oceania or Azamara).  It broke my heart when HAL got rid of the Prinsendam (our favorite HAL vessel) because not only did we really enjoy that ship but we sensed we were nearing the end of an era when once could still find smaller vessels at mass market prices.  Our next three cruises are on smaller ships (450 and 600, and 1250  passenger) but we must bite the bullet and pay more for those size vessels.  I know that many HAL fans love smaller and medium size ships and they will each need to decide if they want to pay more money (then HAL prices) to continue to cruise on those size vessels or compromise and expand their horizons and ship sizes.

 

Hank

Yes for people who want less pax aboard will pay substantially more  per cruise .   .We love the Koningsdam size   .She is the perfect vessel for us  .We know the differences as we have sailed the mega sized ships & smaller ship s . Koningsdam has the right balance of entertainment yet no rock climbing walls &      viewing balls that go 300 feet in the air or roller coasters 

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, Hlitner said:

but we must bite the bullet and pay more for those size vessels.  I know that many HAL fans love smaller and medium size ships and they will each need to decide if they want to pay more money (then HAL prices) to continue to cruise on those size vessels or compromise and expand their horizons and ship sizes.

 

 

Well stated as to where I think I am as to what might be my cruising in the future will be.

 

It's time, I think for me, to take another step "up" from  my previous cruise experiences.  Why?  There are many reasons for such a thought.  None of which are why I need to explain on a public message board.  

 

No regrets--none whatsoever--of what I have experienced.  But, one learns from one's experiences.  What's behind "Door #3"?  It's time to try to open that door.

 

The next question, however, will be:  because of my fondness for my past cruise experiences, will I be able to "pull the trigger" and actually book the next tier "up"?  I did so with my booking in YC on MSC Meraviglia.  I liked it.  That experience is going to encourage me to "let's do something like that again".  

[fatcat04]

Absolutely. We loved our time on HALs small more intimate ships and we hope to get on the last two before they leave the fleet.

 

I just feel and think HAL really should always have a smaller ship, period. They do small ship well. And don't tell me folks wouldn't pay. We know that is a lie! From a business point of view I can't see more than one though, as sad as that make me.  

 

All that said. We are trying out a big momma MSC ship in Nov/Dec. But that is a "ship is the destination" cruise so I expect lots of relaxing, spa time, and am really looking forwards to overnighting at the private island. After the year plus from H- E- DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS, we all need a vacation!

[nocl]

The problem is not so much 1 large ship vs 1 small ship in a port. The problem these days is the 3,4, or 5 large ships in the same port at the same time on the same days.