Message From Richard Fain

[RFerrington]

50 minutes ago, VCR said:

He said there will be people unable to be vaccinated for medical or religious reasons.  All anyone who doesn't want to get the vaccine has to say is they can't for "religious" reasons.  My parents neighbor already is planning to say this and she hasn't stepped foot in a church in the 25 years I've known her.  

I was actually able to get a medical exemption/contradiction signed by my physician.  I was surprised how easy it really was.  It's legit, of course....but I  did expect it to be much more difficult to do.  It is all filled out on my ICVP with her signature as well as documentation of my prophylaxis.  IF (and that's a big IF) they will include the medical exemptions in with the 5% we may have a chance !

[cscurlock]

16 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

If they go the test/simulated cruise path, there is no 5% to meet. In that case CDC essentially says no one has to be vaccinated. Royal is saying they want all eligible people vaccinated. They can have as many unvaccinated kids or fake religious or creatively allergic people on board as they want. 

Well considering they can't even keep their crew from getting the virus an unvaccinated cruise will be a disaster.   I think the part where he said expected instead of mandated is a problem.  That to me means it's a guidance and not a requirement.  I suspect the first cruise will be returning in short order if that is the case.

[coldflame]

4 hours ago, molly361 said:

He said cruises would start next month.  Was the video released early or are they looking to start in June?

 

Mr. Fain started off his video update to travel agents by stating how good things are looking, "we can now state with a high level of confidence that ships from the Royal Caribbean group will be operating out of US ports as early as next month."

Probably referring to Alaska cruises.

[coldflame]

4 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Well considering they can't even keep their crew from getting the virus an unvaccinated cruise will be a disaster.   I think the part where he said expected instead of mandated is a problem.  That to me means it's a guidance and not a requirement.  I suspect the first cruise will be returning in short order if that is the case.

 

Exactly. I get why so many here are looking at this with rose-tinted glasses, BUT, objectively going on a cruise with 10% unvaxxed (specially with kids/youth), is same as going in a cruise with 100% unvaxxed (in terms of sheer risk of early termination due to positives on board).

[Host Jazzbeau]

Free haircuts are being given here, not here...

[Tolkmit]

3 hours ago, coldflame said:

 

Exactly. I get why so many here are looking at this with rose-tinted glasses, BUT, objectively going on a cruise with 10% unvaxxed (specially with kids/youth), is same as going in a cruise with 100% unvaxxed (in terms of sheer risk of early termination due to positives on board).

 

No. Objectively, they are no where close to the same. Subjectively, you personally may be just as scared of a 10% unvaccinated cruise as a 100% unvaccinated cruise. But objectively, the amount of risk of an outbreak on board is orders of magnitude different. That's just scientific fact, based on every single study done on Covid vaccines and a basic understanding of how probability works.

[sailor05]

I wonder what "reduced capacity" means? 

[ToroAzul]

9 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Makes no sense to do a test cruise because children under 12 cannot be vaccinated but dont have any children on a test cruise.

 

This is nothing new, none of this has made sense for the past 16 months.

[ramja96]

I'm glad to see the Windjammer will remain.  The changes they will be making by having the food stations manned by attendants should have been done a LONG time ago, imo.

Edited May 25, 2021 by ramja96

[AF-1]

1 hour ago, ramja96 said:

I'm glad to see the Windjammer will remain.  The changes they will be making by having the food stations manned by attendants should have been done a LONG time ago, imo.

I too am glad to see Windjammer is here to stay.

[coldflame]

7 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

 

No. Objectively, they are no where close to the same. Subjectively, you personally may be just as scared of a 10% unvaccinated cruise as a 100% unvaccinated cruise. But objectively, the amount of risk of an outbreak on board is orders of magnitude different. That's just scientific fact, based on every single study done on Covid vaccines and a basic understanding of how probability works.

Different things. You're talking about risk of getting infected. I'm talking about an infection among those unvaccinated and the cruise getting terminated.

Edited May 25, 2021 by coldflame

[Tolkmit]

4 hours ago, coldflame said:

Different things. You're talking about risk of getting infected. I'm talking about an infection among those unvaccinated and the cruise getting terminated.

 

No, I'm talking about the risk of the cruise getting terminated. Vaccinated adults & children are far, far less likely to bring the virus on board. Vaccinated adults & children are far, far less likely to exhibit symptoms when they have the virus. In order for a cruise to be canceled, you first need someone to bring the virus on board, then to be symptomatic enough to warrant being tested, then to spread the virus to a significant portion of the ship's population. All of those things are objectively far, far less likely with vaccinated adults & children. 

 

You are clearly just as afraid of the cruises being terminated in either situation. That's a subjective measurement. But factually, the chances of a cruise being terminated is very different between the two situations.

[coldflame]

4 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

 

No, I'm talking about the risk of the cruise getting terminated. Vaccinated adults & children are far, far less likely to bring the virus on board. Vaccinated adults & children are far, far less likely to exhibit symptoms when they have the virus. In order for a cruise to be canceled, you first need someone to bring the virus on board, then to be symptomatic enough to warrant being tested, then to spread the virus to a significant portion of the ship's population. All of those things are objectively far, far less likely with vaccinated adults & children. 

 

You are clearly just as afraid of the cruises being terminated in either situation. That's a subjective measurement. But factually, the chances of a cruise being terminated is very different between the two situations.

 

Sigh. The majority of unvaccinated will be children under 12. Children who in kids' club will hang out and play together. The chance of some of them passing a disease from one to other is huge. My kids when they were in that age almost always brought back a bug home from cruises. All it will take is 4-5 of these kids testing positive (regardless of symptomatic or not) and cruise is over.

[Covepointcruiser]

The COVID variant in South America is especially lethal to children.   What parent would risk exposing a child to COVID just to take a cruise.   Wait until your children are vaccinated.

[Tolkmit]

2 minutes ago, coldflame said:

 

Sigh. The majority of unvaccinated will be children under 12. Children who in kids' club will hang out and play together. The chance of some of them passing a disease from one to other is huge. My kids when they were in that age almost always brought back a bug home from cruises. All it will take is 4-5 of these kids testing positive (regardless of symptomatic or not) and cruise is over.

 

Just... factually wrong on so many counts.

Children under twelve have lower rates of Covid spread, the chance of them spreading it is not "huge." 

Children aren't going to be given tests for Covid-19 when they are completely asymptomatic. They will only be tested if there is a reason to, like elevated temperature... which again, most children don't have when they have Covid-19.

People who do test positive for Covid-19, but aren't showing symptoms, will just be quarantined, and won't result in the cruise being canceled.

And most importantly, everything you are claiming, would happen equally on a ship with unvaccinated adults, except you would also have the increased risk that adults being unvaccinated adds. Meaning the risk level would still be, objectively, higher.

 

Cruises are already happening with children in kids clubs. Have been for months, in Italy. And they aren't resulting in the cruises shutting down due to Covid. You are completely ignoring the facts that what you are claiming will happen has already been proven not to; everything every study tells us about Covid-19 in children; everything the CDC tells us about the requirements for testing on board when we return to cruising; and everything Royal tells us about what will happen if someone is diagnosed with Covid-19 on board after cruising restarts.

 

Your wild guesses and "the sky is falling" doom-saying is uneducated and unsupported by science. I don't know why you keep trying to pass it off as fact.

[coldflame]

1 hour ago, Tolkmit said:

 

Just... factually wrong on so many counts.

Children under twelve have lower rates of Covid spread, the chance of them spreading it is not "huge." 

Children aren't going to be given tests for Covid-19 when they are completely asymptomatic. They will only be tested if there is a reason to, like elevated temperature... which again, most children don't have when they have Covid-19.

People who do test positive for Covid-19, but aren't showing symptoms, will just be quarantined, and won't result in the cruise being canceled.

And most importantly, everything you are claiming, would happen equally on a ship with unvaccinated adults, except you would also have the increased risk that adults being unvaccinated adds. Meaning the risk level would still be, objectively, higher.

 

Cruises are already happening with children in kids clubs. Have been for months, in Italy. And they aren't resulting in the cruises shutting down due to Covid. You are completely ignoring the facts that what you are claiming will happen has already been proven not to; everything every study tells us about Covid-19 in children; everything the CDC tells us about the requirements for testing on board when we return to cruising; and everything Royal tells us about what will happen if someone is diagnosed with Covid-19 on board after cruising restarts.

 

Your wild guesses and "the sky is falling" doom-saying is uneducated and unsupported by science. I don't know why you keep trying to pass it off as fact.

 

Look man (or woman) you're being absolutely and purposefully dense. If you cannot grasp the fact how likely are kids to give each other any disease, let alone a very contagious disease, when in closed quarters on a daily basis, while unvaccinated, then I'm not going to waste my breath/time on you.

 

Also, please, provide evidence and sources for your claims above. Thanks.

Edited May 26, 2021 by coldflame

[coldflame]

1 minute ago, coldflame said:

 

Look man (or woman) you're being absolutely and purposefully dense. If you cannot grasp the fact how likely are kids to give each other any disease, let alone a very contagious disease, when in closed quarters on a daily basis, while unvaccinated, then I'm not going to waste my breath/time on you.

Dupe.

Edited May 26, 2021 by coldflame

[SherriZ366]

13 hours ago, ramja96 said:

I'm glad to see the Windjammer will remain.  The changes they will be making by having the food stations manned by attendants should have been done a LONG time ago, imo.

agree

[GTO-Girl]

1 hour ago, coldflame said:

 

Look man (or woman) you're being absolutely and purposefully dense. If you cannot grasp the fact how likely are kids to give each other any disease, let alone a very contagious disease, when in closed quarters on a daily basis, while unvaccinated, then I'm not going to waste my breath/time on you.

 

Also, please, provide evidence and sources for your claims above. Thanks.

My grandchildren have been in the classroom since last August and have had no issues.  My son teaches at a high school in the same county and they too have been in the classroom since last August with no issues.

 

And yet in the next County over they chose to lock down and do only virtual all year.  The difference decisions made by the different school boards is mind boggling.
 

I am just glad my grandchildren have been able to thrive by being in school.

The schools in their county are rated in the top 5% nationally.  There is a reason for that….

[ramja96]

7 hours ago, GTO-Girl said:

I am just glad my grandchildren have been able to thrive by being in school.

The schools in their county are rated in the top 5% nationally.  There is a reason for that….

 

GTO-Girl, it's now time for you to not waste your breath.  I've learned in the past year or so that factual evidence has no place in this world anymore.  Some people just can't hear (or accept) differing opinions.

[A&L_Ont]

7 hours ago, GTO-Girl said:

My grandchildren have been in the classroom since last August and have had no issues.  My son teaches at a high school in the same county and they too have been in the classroom since last August with no issues.

 

And yet in the next County over they chose to lock down and do only virtual all year.  The difference decisions made by the different school boards is mind boggling.
 

I am just glad my grandchildren have been able to thrive by being in school.

The schools in their county are rated in the top 5% nationally.  There is a reason for that….

Curiosity question, have they had a mask mandate, extra hygiene and cleaning protocols?   I remember when school started in the States news stories about no mask use etc. But press can be one sided.  
 

I only as as here in Ontario there seem to be two groups of thought, keep them out or get them back.  They have been doing on line schooling since early April but we are now exiting the third wave in our province. All teachers should have had their first shot in the last 2-8 weeks by either age brackets or essential considerations, there have been mask mandates since school started last fall, extra hygiene for kids and school cleaning protocols.  I can understand them continuing to go on-line learning for centre’s with high case counts, but in other communities with minimal makes no sense. Our son’s school only had one class with a case since September. He in fact has his shot scheduled for this Monday as it just opened to 12-18 year olds. 
 

Our school year ends late June and there is a chance to get them back in. Our son is excited to return and would go now if given the opportunity 

Edited May 26, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[exm]

16 hours ago, coldflame said:

 

Sigh. The majority of unvaccinated will be children under 12. Children who in kids' club will hang out and play together. The chance of some of them passing a disease from one to other is huge. My kids when they were in that age almost always brought back a bug home from cruises. All it will take is 4-5 of these kids testing positive (regardless of symptomatic or not) and cruise is over.

 

16 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

The COVID variant in South America is especially lethal to children.   What parent would risk exposing a child to COVID just to take a cruise.   Wait until your children are vaccinated.

 

14 hours ago, coldflame said:

 

Look man (or woman) you're being absolutely and purposefully dense. If you cannot grasp the fact how likely are kids to give each other any disease, let alone a very contagious disease, when in closed quarters on a daily basis, while unvaccinated, then I'm not going to waste my breath/time on you.

 

Also, please, provide evidence and sources for your claims above. Thanks.

 

So much misinformation here, not even funny. coldflame is asking for 'evidence and sources', I can ask you the exact same.

 

There is a TON of information on the internet that young children (under 12) do NOT get sick with Covid (unless there's an underlying health condition), and they get infected less. You want proof, here you go from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html

 

Younger children (<10 years of age) may be less likely to be infected than adolescents.^21,22,29 This possibility is supported by contact tracing studies;^29,31 test positivity data from children, adolescents, and adults;^16,17 and population screening studies using seroprevalence data.^18,21 Susceptibility to SARS-CoV-2 infection and the proportion among those infected experiencing symptoms both generally increase with age.⁵

 

When you read the CDC link posted above the target is mostly 5-17 years. You can't compare 16 year olds with 12 years - as we all know 16 years are much more (uh hum) 'social' with others among other things.

 

Now please provide your documentation from a reputable source, especially about the nonsense about the SA variant (you might refer to numbers for COVID in South Africa itself, where the quality of living, health care and hygiene is absolutely incomparable to the United States or Europe).