Is Holland America Getting Ready to Raise Cost of Gratuities?

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Personally I don’t see it as that much of a change. I would have tipped close to that anyway. Now that tip is included, I don’t need to bring cash with me to the PG to tip again. 

Difference is discretionary versus required.  With the former, I can reward great service.

[Mary229]

I realize I don’t cruise as much as most here but I haven’t paid gratuities in 5 years, at least, perhaps longer.  I always seem to have that as a perk.  My bar bill is negligible.   Regardless I consider gratuities the cost of the package.  I was raised that if you can’t afford the tip then you can’t afford the activity/meal or whatever 

[kevingastreich]

5 hours ago, strickerj said:

Agreed, it's like the BS resort fees prevalent in Vegas and spreading elsewhere...

Exactly!  I never figured out why the hotels don't just advertise  "$1 per night!!" and then make it up in the "resort fees".

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

I definitely have no problem paying more and feel the crew will more than deserve the additional

 

Neither do I.  When one begins to consider how that same per day charge is parceled out to so many of the crew and not just those with whom we come into daily contact, the amount is so small per day per crew member.  

 

That is a reason why I choose to provide an extra gratuity to my Cabin Stewards, my Dining Room Stewards, and once in awhile other crew members.

 

I will NEVER EVER forget the reaction of a particularly solicitous and friendly Deck Steward whom I regularly encountered on the Maiden Voyage of the Volendam's Asia Pacific Cruise.  As we approached Los Angeles on the last day at sea, I gave him a gratuity as I left my deck chair for the afternoon to dress for the last night's dinner.  Whatever amount I gave him was not enough for the joy that I witnessed in his receipt of that gratuity.  

[EnClair]

It is a matter of culture. I allmost never tip, except when in the US. I do not tip on a cruise, since I am allready paying gratuities. It is not part of the culture where I live, to tip. I expect, that the price I am given, includes salary to the staff, taxes, VAT, fuel for the ship, etc. As a customer, I should not have to have a calculator on hand in order to know, how much a cruise, meal, haircut etc. will cost me.

[mcrcruiser]

Has any one done the math yet of these increases, The `14 .50  raided to $15.60  is  is a . .0690 % increase ^ going from .15% to .18%  id as 30% increase  .T think most American workers would really enjoy such a increase in their pay checks .Then remember that these increases  & the base that there are figured on are tax free to those who directly benefit .

 

 People may say that all prices are increasing & that may be true  on a temporary basis because we are coming out of the pandemic  ,at least here in the USA   ,however that is a temporary blip ;as those price increases are not sustainable ;because if they were the interest rates paid to savers would increase dramatically  & that is not happening 

 

 Retired people ;which whom HAL gets most of their business   will at some point  resist not only  cruise price increases but the higher  tip practices mandated by them  .imo ,it is only a matter of time before HAL sees this resistance to those hefty price increases  .Remember ,the USA has been starved from cruises for going on 2 years now & yes the demand is up ;however ,at a tipping point prices do make the difference to every thing 

[Mary229]

4 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Has any one done the math yet of these increases, The `14 .50  raided to $15.60  is  is a . .0690 % increase ^ going from .15% to .18%  id as 30% increase  .T think most American workers would really enjoy such a increase in their pay checks .Then remember that these increases  & the base that there are figured on are tax free to those who directly benefit .

 

 People may say that all prices are increasing & that may be true  on a temporary basis because we are coming out of the pandemic  ,at least here in the USA   ,however that is a temporary blip ;as those price increases are not sustainable ;because if they were the interest rates paid to savers would increase dramatically  & that is not happening 

 

 Retired people ;which whom HAL gets most of their business   will at some point  resist not only  cruise price increases but the higher  tip practices mandated by them  .imo ,it is only a matter of time before HAL sees this resistance to those hefty price increases  .Remember ,the USA has been starved from cruises for going on 2 years now & yes the demand is up ;however ,at a tipping point prices do make the difference to every thing 

It is perhaps 30% but over what time.  It has been more than one year since they last raised the fee.  To be accurate you would have to determine when it last increased.  is it 30% over one year or over 5 years, that is different.

[DaveOKC]

4 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Has any one done the math yet of these increases, The `14 .50  raided to $15.60  is  is a . .0690 % increase ^ going from .15% to .18%  id as 30% increase  .T think most American workers would really enjoy such a increase in their pay checks .Then remember that these increases  & the base that there are figured on are tax free to those who directly benefit .

 

 People may say that all prices are increasing & that may be true  on a temporary basis because we are coming out of the pandemic  ,at least here in the USA   ,however that is a temporary blip ;as those price increases are not sustainable ;because if they were the interest rates paid to savers would increase dramatically  & that is not happening 

 

 Retired people ;which whom HAL gets most of their business   will at some point  resist not only  cruise price increases but the higher  tip practices mandated by them  .imo ,it is only a matter of time before HAL sees this resistance to those hefty price increases  .Remember ,the USA has been starved from cruises for going on 2 years now & yes the demand is up ;however ,at a tipping point prices do make the difference to every thing 

Agree.  It sometimes takes awhile, but things do rebalance as consumers explore other options.  I saw this in Vegas - was very hot so they increased prices across the board.  After awhile, people looked elsewhere to gamble and then Vegas was in trouble.  Thats when happens when 1) you have high debt loads and 2) you let the ben counters make operational decisions.  

 

[mcrcruiser]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

It is perhaps 30% but over what time.  It has been more than one year since they last raised the fee.  To be accurate you would have to determine when it last increased.  is it 30% over one year or over 5 years, that is different.

The point I am making is about price increase resistance ,especially with seniors on fixed incomes  .Their buying power is being eroded & seniors are the bulk of HAL's customer base  .Considering  alternative vacations ,HAL may soon find themselves priced out of the market  with regards too seniors 

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Agree.  It sometimes takes awhile, but things do rebalance as consumers explore other options.  I saw this in Vegas - was very hot so they increased prices across the board.  After awhile, people looked elsewhere to gamble and then Vegas was in trouble.  Thats when happens when 1) you have high debt loads and 2) you let the ben counters make operational decisions.  

 

Yes I have witnessed this in Las Vegas myself ;as I traveled there frequently selling to the hotels & casinos for over 30 years . People went to places like Laughlin  or to Indian Casinos in Calif & Arizona 

[mcrcruiser]

12 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Agree.  It sometimes takes awhile, but things do rebalance as consumers explore other options.  I saw this in Vegas - was very hot so they increased prices across the board.  After awhile, people looked elsewhere to gamble and then Vegas was in trouble.  Thats when happens when 1) you have high debt loads and 2) you let the ben counters make operational decisions.  

 

And another thing Vegas did to  help destroy their business were the ridiculous high  valet parking & do it yourself parking fees  .where you could go to Laughlin or Indian  Casinos & escape those fees  . For years Las Vegas would over build & then cut prices 

 

 The high  debt loads that all the cruise lines are now carrying will  have a very detrimental impact on them going forward 

Edited May 26, 2021 by mcrcruiser

[Mary229]

9 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

The point I am making is about price increase resistance ,especially with seniors on fixed incomes  .Their buying power is being eroded & seniors are the bulk of HAL's customer base  .Considering  alternative vacations ,HAL may soon find themselves priced out of the market  with regards too seniors 

But if it is 30% over 5 years it may be long overdue.  I think the cruise lines are using this moment to catch up on costs that have been building from years of competitive discounting.  There is also  general inflation in the economy, some of it is pretty high.    The last 20 years of cruising has been a bargain, that is not the historic norm.

 

As to seniors they are the absolute wealthiest demographic in the US.  

Edited May 26, 2021 by Mary229

[mcrcruiser]

2 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

But if it is 30% over 5 years it may be long overdue.  I think the cruise lines are using this moment to catch up on costs that have been building from years of competitive discounting.  There is also  general inflation in the economy, some of it is pretty high.    The last 20 years of cruising has been a bargain, that is not the historic norm.

 

As to seniors they are the absolute wealthiest demographic in the US.  

The reason you give is not true is because they never pay the income taxers that American workers pay .Thus ,if you calculated that into the  income you would soon find that the income is quite high vs what they could earn in their native countries  tax free & they can save most of that income because room & board isd is included .  There are additional factors that will get price resistance in the cruise industry & those are increased port fees & taxes  .There are  pricing  tipping points that can not be ignored by   the cruise lines ,They may test the waters but I predict prices will  be forced to come back   to more normal price points based upon future demand   .I for one will not pay  the new   price increases . We booked when prices were much lower  & we booked with ppd gratuities ,drink pkg & the special restaurant deal  .noot only with HSAL but Princess & Carnival  ,4 future cruises  at much lower entry pricing  than todays prices for the same cruises

[mcrcruiser]

 

As to seniors they are the absolute wealthiest demographic in the US.

 

 That is only  true for those seniors who saved in their  working years & invested wisely  .Not all seniors can make that claim 

[DaveOKC]

6 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

 

As to seniors they are the absolute wealthiest demographic in the US.

 

 That is only  true for those seniors who saved in their  working years & invested wisely  .Not all seniors can make that claim 

All so true!!

[mcrcruiser]

FWIW Carnival cruises the tip per day cost is still $27 .98  per couple in other than suites 

[Mary229]

18 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

The reason you give is not true is because they never pay the income taxers that American workers pay .Thus ,if you calculated that into the  income you would soon find that the income is quite high vs what they could earn in their native countries  tax free & they can save most of that income because room & board isd is included .  There are additional factors that will get price resistance in the cruise industry & those are increased port fees & taxes  .There are  pricing  tipping points that can not be ignored by   the cruise lines ,They may test the waters but I predict prices will  be forced to come back   to more normal price points based upon future demand   .I for one will not pay  the new   price increases . We booked when prices were much lower  & we booked with ppd gratuities ,drink pkg & the special restaurant deal  .noot only with HSAL but Princess & Carnival  ,4 future cruises  at much lower entry pricing  than todays prices for the same cruises

The prices may come back down but I don't think that will happen until 2024.  I think 2022 and 2023 are for those who are willing to pay the catch up costs.  I don't know what is not true about looking at the math correctly. 30% YOY is very different than 30% over 5 years.  

[Mary229]

15 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

 

As to seniors they are the absolute wealthiest demographic in the US.

 

 That is only  true for those seniors who saved in their  working years & invested wisely  .Not all seniors can make that claim 

I said demographic.  It is a curve.  But if you look at 65-80 that is the wealthiest demographic.  There are rich 20 year olds too but that doesn't make the demographic rich.  

[mcrcruiser]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

The prices may come back down but I don't think that will happen until 2024.  I think 2022 and 2023 are for those who are willing to pay the catch up costs.  I don't know what is not true about looking at the math correctly. 30% YOY is very different than 30% over 5 years.  

Look people know that there are No taxes paid  by  cruise line staff because they are working on foreign flag vessels  .That is a major factor in incomes   .imo  price resistance will happen long before 2024  

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, mcrcruiser said:

Look people know that there are No taxes paid  by  cruise line staff because they are working on foreign flag vessels  .That is a major factor in incomes   .imo  price resistance will happen long before 2024  

I don't understand your point.  Inflation doesn't stop for those who pay no taxes.  If your wage hasn't increased in 5 years whether you pay taxes or not it still hasn't gone up.

[Red Haired Lady]

43 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

But if it is 30% over 5 years it may be long overdue.  I think the cruise lines are using this moment to catch up on costs that have been building from years of competitive discounting.  There is also  general inflation in the economy, some of it is pretty high.    The last 20 years of cruising has been a bargain, that is not the historic norm.

 

As to seniors they are the absolute wealthiest demographic in the US.  

HAL just raised the gratuities from $13.50 to $14.50 in 2019.  See this link:

 

Holland America Line Raises Gratuities for 2019 (travelmarketreport.com)

 

[mcrcruiser]

11 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I don't understand your point.  Inflation doesn't stop for those who pay no taxes.  If your wage hasn't increased in 5 years whether you pay taxes or not it still hasn't gone up.

So let us just say  the avg  payroll tax is 20%  & that doesn't count Soc Sec tax  or state income tax or id=f there is a city income tax ;but ,for simplification let's stick to the 20% tax base divided by 5 years is 4% per year pay raise ;but ,in reality the cruise staff has never paid any rtaxes .further the past strength of the dollar to their foreign currency was also a substantial boost  to their ,at home income  levels  . 

 

 If we want to help people lets start with our own homeless people & many are Vets 

Edited May 26, 2021 by mcrcruiser

[Mary229]

7 minutes ago, Red Haired Lady said:

HAL just raised the gratuities from $13.50 to $14.50 in 2019.  See this link:

 

Holland America Line Raises Gratuities for 2019 (travelmarketreport.com)

 

Thanks for that.  I didn't remember and that helps judge the cost increase.  

[mcrcruiser]

8 minutes ago, Red Haired Lady said:

HAL just raised the gratuities from $13.50 to $14.50 in 2019.  See this link:

 

Holland America Line Raises Gratuities for 2019 (travelmarketreport.com)

 

Yes true so it seems to me that there is a  greed factor here with HAL 

[Laminator]

3 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

So let us just say  the avg  payroll tax is 20%  & that doesn't count Soc Sec tax  or state income tax or id=f there is a city income tax ;but ,for simplification let's stick to the 20% tax base divided by 5 years is 4% per year pay raise ;but ,in reality the cruise staff has never paid any rtaxes .further the past strength of the dollar to their foreign currency was also a substantial boost  to their ,at home income  levels  . 

 

 If we want to help people lets start with our own homeless people & many are Vets 

Are you recommending we stop cruising and simply donate those funds to the various Veteran's and Homeless organizations?