Edge sails on June 26?

[graphicguy]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

So how does this work for international guests?

Not sure.  I guess they fill out the information they have on their vaccine and see what happens?  I‘D send a message to the company and ask them.

[MacMarauder]

3 hours ago, cltnccruisers said:

Told my wife the other day that if anything goes wrong with these early cruises, regardless of severity, it will be game over. 

 

Well here is the silver lining to all this, lets just say the Florida law stands and cruises have to sail with unvaccinated PAX. If there are no problems than everyone wins and we can move on. If there is a COVID outbreak on a ship the media jumps on it but they put the blame on DeSantis instead of the cruise lines. 

 

DeSantis is setting himself up to be the fall guy, so his office must think one of two things - either they believe that there is no chance a ship with unvaccinated PAX will have a COVID outbreak, or that the law won't stand with regards to cruising and this is all political posturing to score points with his base.

[cscurlock]

Just now, MacMarauder said:

 

Well here is the silver lining to all this, lets just say the Florida law stands and cruises have to sail with unvaccinated PAX. If there are no problems than everyone wins and we can move on. If there is a COVID outbreak on a ship the media jumps on it but they put the blame on DeSantis instead of the cruise lines. 

 

DeSantis is setting himself up to be the fall guy, so his office must think one of two things - either they believe that there is no chance a ship with unvaccinated PAX will have a COVID outbreak, or that the law won't stand with regards to cruising and this is all political posturing to score points with his base.

Well again this only applies to Florida residents so unsure how much of an impact this will have. The lawyers for the cruise line must know what they are doing or they wouldn't be doing it.  

[ipeeinthepool]

23 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Ah, so who do you think is going to release the statement?

 

 A couple of days

[Jeremiah1212]

34 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Ah, so who do you think is going to release the statement?

 

 

I'll bite. 

 

Richard Fain, or maybe Lisa Lutoff-Perlo although she's been pretty quiet throughout this, would probably release anything that is materially significant like a decision they can or cannot proceed with vaccination verification. That may put a halt to Edge and Equinox as planned. Dondra Ritzenhalther is the SVP of Sales and Trade Support (travel agents). She typically announces the first granular details of new processes and protcols to travel agents. Once she makes her release, websites are updated and the details become public on Celebrity.com -  unless the details change between her announcements and publication, which has definitely happened more than a few times so far. 

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Well again this only applies to Florida residents so unsure how much of an impact this will have. The lawyers for the cruise line must know what they are doing or they wouldn't be doing it.  

Would you mind explaining why you believe this applies only to Florida residents. You've made this claim on several threads without providing any rationale.

[cscurlock]

1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

Would you mind explaining why you believe this applies only to Florida residents. You've made this claim on several threads without providing any rationale.

Sure,  If a company server is in New York and the person going on the cruise is in Michigan.  That is way outside Florida's state line.  Florida has no jurisdiction over NY and it has no jurisdiction over Michigan residents while in Michigan.  There authority ends at the state line Full Stop.  They do have authority if the person is in Florida accessing a NY server since its a resident of Florida.

[Travelexpert35]

3 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

The Governor's office and the cruise line executives are currently in working to finalize a statement that will indicate the vaccine passport regulation does not apply to cruise lines.

 

BTW   You will need to wear your mask in the terminal because it is a transportation facility, but you can remove it when you board the ship if you are vaccinated.

The masks will be mandatory onboard even if you are vaccinated. It mentions this in their booking terms. 

[Jeremiah1212]

3 minutes ago, Travelexpert35 said:

The masks will be mandatory onboard even if you are vaccinated. It mentions this in their booking terms. 

The CSO gives them an out for that but it’s dependent on vaccine verification. Just because it’s in the contract does not mean it will be enforced or changed before cruises resume. Their intent is to NOT require masks anywhere. 

[ipeeinthepool]

18 minutes ago, Travelexpert35 said:

The masks will be mandatory onboard even if you are vaccinated. It mentions this in their booking terms. 

 

Nope, that's not what it says and not Celebrity's intent.  The T&C says "may include".  Not will include.

Edited May 28, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Sure,  If a company server is in New York and the person going on the cruise is in Michigan.  That is way outside Florida's state line.  Florida has no jurisdiction over NY and it has no jurisdiction over Michigan residents while in Michigan.  There authority ends at the state line Full Stop.  They do have authority if the person is in Florida accessing a NY server since its a resident of Florida.

An interesting interpretation, but IMO the basic question to be asked is "Who is requesting the verification?" Not "How is the request being made?" The answer, of course, is Celebrity, HQ'd in Florida. Whether they request the verification in person at Port Everglades or over the internet via servers in NewYork, it it still Celebrity in Florida making the request.

 

On the other hand, if HAL, HQ'd in Seattle, was to make the request in the manner you describe, I'd agree with your contention that Florida would have no jurisdiction. 

 

That said, I'll sit back and watch things play out in the days and weeks to come.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

9 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Nope, that's not what it says and not Celebrity's intent.

Celebrity indicates. When it gets close to cruise time. Health mandates will be sent to the passengers. Currently NOTHING is a for sure.

[ipeeinthepool]

15 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Celebrity indicates. When it gets close to cruise time. Health mandates will be sent to the passengers. Currently NOTHING is a for sure.

 

My connections also say no masks.

[ArthurUSCG]

21 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

An interesting interpretation, but IMO the basic question to be asked is "Who is requesting the verification?" Not "How is the request being made?" The answer, of course, is Celebrity, HQ'd in Florida. Whether they request the verification in person at Port Everglades or over the internet via servers in NewYork, it it still Celebrity in Florida making the request.

 

On the other hand, if HAL, HQ'd in Seattle, was to make the request in the manner you describe, I'd agree with your contention that Florida would have no jurisdiction. 

 

That said, I'll sit back and watch things play out in the days and weeks to come.

Lets tweak the hypothetical a little3 bit. Lets say Celebrity Cruises contracts out to another company, "Celebrity Cruises Boarding", and CCB is incorporated in Deleware using AWS and requires all customers to complete the boarding online and with CCB. The part where your required to upload the vaccine card would then happen for everyone outside of Florida and only subject to Federal laws, nullifying Florida's laws.

[CruiseImage]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:41 AM, Jeremiah1212 said:

I didn't have much faith in this, but look who reposted. She's back on the Edge in a few days.

 

 

So why didn't you have any faith in the post from CruiseCelebrity, until Capt Kate reposted it? , and then its so happens you find the "original" post from the CEO post on Twitter ?? 

[cscurlock]

6 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

Lets tweak the hypothetical a little3 bit. Lets say Celebrity Cruises contracts out to another company, "Celebrity Cruises Boarding", and CCB is incorporated in Deleware using AWS and requires all customers to complete the boarding online and with CCB. The part where your required to upload the vaccine card would then happen for everyone outside of Florida and only subject to Federal laws, nullifying Florida's laws.

Knowing the cruise industry underneath the hood they already have had something like this for a very long time.  It could even be a company hosting the web site for them.  Trust me their lawyers are not stupid.

[Lunesse]

On 5/27/2021 at 9:14 AM, gotrichard said:

These are the terms you agree to when you book this exact sailing. They legally cannot change. 

 Passenger understands that Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures may or will include (but are not be limited to):  

 

That "may" statement allows for a lot of wiggle later, but yes, you are agreeing to the possibility of all these things being in place. 😃

[Fouremco]

51 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

Lets tweak the hypothetical a little3 bit. Lets say Celebrity Cruises contracts out to another company, "Celebrity Cruises Boarding", and CCB is incorporated in Deleware using AWS and requires all customers to complete the boarding online and with CCB. The part where your required to upload the vaccine card would then happen for everyone outside of Florida and only subject to Federal laws, nullifying Florida's laws.

I don't pretend to have a deep understanding of American jurisprudence, but it seems to me, from a logical perspective, that CCB is only an intermediary acting at the behest of Florida-based Celebrity. As soon as Celebrity provides the necessary details of a passenger to CCB and asks for vaccination verification, it runs afoul of this legislation. 

[ArthurUSCG]

Just now, Fouremco said:

I don't pretend to have a deep understanding of American jurisprudence, but it seems to me, from a logical perspective, that CCB is only an intermediary acting at the behest of Florida-based Celebrity. As soon as Celebrity provides the necessary details of a passenger to CCB and asks for vaccination verification, it runs afoul of this legislation. 

But CCB is the one asking for verification and they are not operating in Florida, thus outside Florida's laws. Celebrity doesn't have to ask CCB to pass vaccine status, just that the person is cleared to board. America laws are written by corporations with lots of money for lawyers and loop holes the size of a bus.

[cscurlock]

Just now, ArthurUSCG said:

But CCB is the one asking for verification and they are not operating in Florida, thus outside Florida's laws. Celebrity doesn't have to ask CCB to pass vaccine status, just that the person is cleared to board. America laws are written by corporations with lots of money for lawyers and loop holes the size of a bus.

You would  be correct.  Florida has no jurisdiction.  The request was made outside of Florida to an organization outside of Florida.  The only wrinkle if its a Florida citizen in Florida making the request.  Florida has a right to protect their citizens.   That's where the cruise contract comes in.

[Smmessineo]

1 hour ago, cscurlock said:

You would  be correct.  Florida has no jurisdiction.  The request was made outside of Florida to an organization outside of Florida.  The only wrinkle if its a Florida citizen in Florida making the request.  Florida has a right to protect their citizens.   That's where the cruise contract comes in.

I am a resident of Florida. If  a business outside of Florida , whether online or in person,  asks for my vaccination status, it's my choice to give it, and my right. Florida doesn't need to "protect" me. 

 

[cscurlock]

54 minutes ago, Smmessineo said:

I am a resident of Florida. If  a business outside of Florida , whether online or in person,  asks for my vaccination status, it's my choice to give it, and my right. Florida doesn't need to "protect" me. 

 

The law isn't written that way.  Its written so that any mandate of vaccine requirement is a $5000 penalty to the organization.  Your consent isn't written into the law.  

[Jeremiah1212]

3 hours ago, CruiseImage said:

So why didn't you have any faith in the post from CruiseCelebrity, until Capt Kate reposted it? , and then its so happens you find the "original" post from the CEO post on Twitter ?? 

Isn’t that your page? 

[Smmessineo]

43 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The law isn't written that way.  Its written so that any mandate of vaccine requirement is a $5000 penalty to the organization.  Your consent isn't written into the law.  

Exactly. The onus is on the Florida business. In fact, the residency of the person being asked would mean  nothing. But you agreed  in an earlier post  that the cruiselines could theoretically use an out of state business to collect vaccine info but you thought Florida residents might not be able to make use of that. How come? Once I am dealing with an out of Florida business, the Florida law has no power over my situation. 

[PaulMCO]

One easy way for the cruise lines to handle this is to institute a 2 step checkin with the vaccine check being made on board the ship which is non US/Florida territory. There are federal areas in the port where this could be done too.

 

DeSantis dug himself a hole and like a snake he will find a way out.

I agree with his law and the intent.  It was not made to stop cruise lines, it was designed to keep businesses (restaurants, movie theaters etc) and institutions from mandating vaccines to enter.