Carnival Requiring a Health Assement?

[tm_aw_love]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I find the statement in the box you must check that "penalties may apply to any individual who knowingly and willfully makes a false, fictitious or fraudulent statement of representation" interesting. I wonder what penalties they are referring to and who would enforce them.

I would imagine that if Carnival suffers 'losses' (ie. stopping a cruise early, refunds to other guests, etc., etc., etc.) they themselves could sue you... at a minimum. 

[dbrucern]

2 minutes ago, tm_aw_love said:

I would imagine that if Carnival suffers 'losses' (ie. stopping a cruise early, refunds to other guests, etc., etc., etc.) they themselves could sue you... at a minimum. 

Probably will not be allowed to sail Carnival again as well as above

 

[Pyrate13]

I don't see any issue with this except perhaps the first question. They should consider that folks with COPD, Asthma and similar lung diseases may often have the cough, breathing difficulty but they are certainly not a threat to anyone else on board. I would hope they don't deny them boarding for this.

[tm_aw_love]

5 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

I don't see any issue with this except perhaps the first question. They should consider that folks with COPD, Asthma and similar lung diseases may often have the cough, breathing difficulty but they are certainly not a threat to anyone else on board. I would hope they don't deny them boarding for this.

No way to tell for sure, but more than likely, a yes response would trigger 'secondary' screening by medical staff. 

[babygrljaz]

9 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

I don't see any issue with this except perhaps the first question. They should consider that folks with COPD, Asthma and similar lung diseases may often have the cough, breathing difficulty but they are certainly not a threat to anyone else on board. I would hope they don't deny them boarding for this.

Exactly it should say "on set" like it does at the hospital/Dr's office, well the ones I've been to. I have MANY of those symptoms on a daily basis...fatigue, headaches, body aches...

[kdr69]

29 minutes ago, evandbob said:

A waste of paper, just like the old questionaire. But I guess Carnival has to do something (anything) about COVID if it won't mandate vaccinated only to board.

No different than the questionnaire i have to fill out every morning prior to work, or the airlines questions prior to boarding.  These things are everywhere right now.  Regardless of vaccination status there will be a questionnaire so its not just a "Carnival" thing.

[kdr69]

25 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

I don't see any issue with this except perhaps the first question. They should consider that folks with COPD, Asthma and similar lung diseases may often have the cough, breathing difficulty but they are certainly not a threat to anyone else on board. I would hope they don't deny them boarding for this.

The question is asked in the context of COVID and is not about "normal" symptoms you may experience on an ongoing basis due to ongoing health issues.  Wearing a mask too long makes me cough but i wouldnt answer yes to that question because of it.

[40yearcruiser]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I think they must have planned on testing. Does your canceled cruise say anything about testing or masks or shore excursions, or...

Just to see what happened, I just went back to my login and filled out the form and submitted it. It just went to the next person's name in the cabin for them to complete, so no more questions or information about testing, etc.

Wish we really were cruising tomorrow!

Edited May 28, 2021 by 40yearcruiser

[lobster1313]

26 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

I don't see any issue with this except perhaps the first question. They should consider that folks with COPD, Asthma and similar lung diseases may often have the cough, breathing difficulty but they are certainly not a threat to anyone else on board. I would hope they don't deny them boarding for this.

It usually means only new symptoms. I made the mistake of not assuming that and I got a COVID test as a penalty.

[kdr69]

3 minutes ago, 40yearcruiser said:

I also am surprised that there was not a question about whether we had received the vaccine.

Every day i have to open a Fit for work App and I asked HR why they dont put this question on there too to guage how many employees have been protected and they actually said they couldnt ask that question for privacy purposes.

[40yearcruiser]

4 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Every day i have to open a Fit for work App and I asked HR why they dont put this question on there too to guage how many employees have been protected and they actually said they couldnt ask that question for privacy purposes.

Interesting. We are taking a Mississippi River cruise in August and the vaccine is required for that. I also see that the Alaska cruises will require the vaccine so I guess it can be asked in all the places where those cruises originate.

[kdr69]

I mean really folks?  Theyve been handing out some form or other like this for years at the Port.  So now its just modified for COVID and put online.  The more i can do online before i arrive that will make the embarkation process smoother and quicker im all for.  99.9% of businesses out there have COVID posters plastered all over their entrances that ask the exact same questions of you and tell you not to come in if you do have those symptoms.  In fact i do have to fill one similar out every single time i visit one of my clients.

[BlerkOne]

55 minutes ago, tm_aw_love said:

I would imagine that if Carnival suffers 'losses' (ie. stopping a cruise early, refunds to other guests, etc., etc., etc.) they themselves could sue you... at a minimum. 

Minimum might be an understatement. If anyone lies, I would think every other passenger could sue for any losses and win.

[kdr69]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Minimum might be an understatement. If anyone lies, I would think every other passenger could sue for any losses and win.

I agree

[ontheweb]

14 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Minimum might be an understatement. If anyone lies, I would think every other passenger could sue for any losses and win.

Everyone can always sue; it's the American way.

 

However, I do think it would be much easier for the affected cruise line to quantify economic losses than any individual passenger. Also, wouldn't you also have to prove it was the specific passenger you were suing who was the cause of the outbreak, not just speculation that it was him or her.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Everyone can always sue; it's the American way.

 

However, I do think it would be much easier for the affected cruise line to quantify economic losses than any individual passenger. Also, wouldn't you also have to prove it was the specific passenger you were suing who was the cause of the outbreak, not just speculation that it was him or her.

 

Anybody can sue anyone for anything, but winning is different (like fishing and catching). There could be consequences.

 

Carnival will be doing contact tracing (allegedly).  With civil lawsuits, it doesn't have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt as with criminal cases.

 

I would think individual passengers could quantify some losses better - like loss of vacation time, income, ?

 

I dunno. I'm not a lawyer and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[ontheweb]

11 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Anybody can sue anyone for anything, but winning is different (like fishing and catching). There could be consequences.

 

Carnival will be doing contact tracing (allegedly).  With civil lawsuits, it doesn't have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt as with criminal cases.

 

I would think individual passengers could quantify some losses better - like loss of vacation time, income, ?

 

I dunno. I'm not a lawyer and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

There are costs to initiating a law suit. Carnival I'm sure has many lawyers on retainer, so it would not be a real problem for them, but as for an individual passenger, he or she would have to weigh the costs in both money and time against the possible gain. And even if you win, that does not always mean you can collect the result of the verdict.

[Pyrate13]

1 hour ago, kdr69 said:

The question is asked in the context of COVID and is not about "normal" symptoms you may experience on an ongoing basis due to ongoing health issues.  Wearing a mask too long makes me cough but i wouldnt answer yes to that question because of it.

 

1 hour ago, regoodwinjr said:

It usually means only new symptoms. I made the mistake of not assuming that and I got a COVID test as a penalty.

 

I'm not willing to assume this to be the case. Stating it to be COVID, or new symptom related, on the questionnaire would be very easy for CCL to do and would make it very clear. Oh well.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

There are costs to initiating a law suit. Carnival I'm sure has many lawyers on retainer, so it would not be a real problem for them, but as for an individual passenger, he or she would have to weigh the costs in both money and time against the possible gain. And even if you win, that does not always mean you can collect the result of the verdict.

True. Small claims court might be an option. I might do it just because there should be a penalty for lying. I don't need the money.

[Top_of_the_Cube]

The first two questions on the the questionnaire provided by 40yearcruiser ask if you have the "following symptoms".  I consider a chronic condition, or a health issue that is associated with a non-contagious condition, much different than a symptom of COVID.  While I know it is wishful thinking, I would hope that someone with any symptom that recently manifests itself would declare that on the form, or that they cancel or at least get tested before embarkation.

 

As for suing, not a lawyer nor do I play one on Cruise Critic boards.  But I did a quick look at a legal site that states that a civil suit only requires a "preponderance of evidence", which is a much lower bar than a criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt."  So if you think you can prove that it seems reasonable that you suffered damages by someone's deliberate reckless behavior, even an individual has a good chance of prevailing in court.  But, as has already been mentioned in this thread, that does not guarantee that you will be compensated.

[Lee Cruiser]

Proving that someone lied on the form would be extremely difficult.  Even if they do get sick on the cruise, you would have to prove that they were actually experiencing the symptoms before they filled out the form.  Given the large number of people I know that experienced little to no symptoms with Covid, it would be hard to prove someone actually had symptoms and lied about it.

[Shih-tzu]

Now that I have seen the form (posted above) I do have a couple of concerns.

 

I know that we had these to fill out prior to embarkation over the years, however it was a paper copy where you could add "notes" or comments (which I did) and answer a question if they asked.

 

With this electronic version, unless the whole form isn't showing - there is just a "yes" or "no" answer with no room for any type of comment.   When we answer honestly (which we plan on doing), they are going to look at our forms and their red flags are going to pop up and wave . 

 

There is no place to add comments or clarification (i.e. allergies and therefore I have a runny nose and take this Rx, or he has arthritis, therefore body aches and pains and takes this, or I have had **insert whatever** ..for x number of years.   Perhaps it should have been worded  "in the last 14 days have you developed new or worsening......." or a clarification block so they will know whatever could be a chronic condition and not at all related to COVID.   Also notice it does not ask if a person is partly or fully vaccinated (although I understand that there is a law in some states that does not allow that).

 

People say they have to answer this type of question when reporting for work (as do I, with no issue), but to get to work I haven't spent over $2000 for two airfares and paid for a cruise. it's easy to explain to someone why you answered "yes" to a question but this is all electronic.   Is Carnival going to look at these and send an e-mail saying "Sorry, you can't sail" or will they come back for exxtra information?   Or wait until you've crossed the continent to say "Oh, you checked off "yes" to a question, we're sorry"?   If think some fine tuning/rewording may be necessary.

[Pyrate13]

8 minutes ago, Shih-tzu said:

Now that I have seen the form (posted above) I do have a couple of concerns.

 

I know that we had these to fill out prior to embarkation over the years, however it was a paper copy where you could add "notes" or comments (which I did) and answer a question if they asked.

 

With this electronic version, unless the whole form isn't showing - there is just a "yes" or "no" answer with no room for any type of comment.   When we answer honestly (which we plan on doing), they are going to look at our forms and their red flags are going to pop up and wave . 

 

There is no place to add comments or clarification (i.e. allergies and therefore I have a runny nose and take this Rx, or he has arthritis, therefore body aches and pains and takes this, or I have had **insert whatever** ..for x number of years.   Perhaps it should have been worded  "in the last 14 days have you developed new or worsening......." or a clarification block so they will know whatever could be a chronic condition and not at all related to COVID.   Also notice it does not ask if a person is partly or fully vaccinated (although I understand that there is a law in some states that does not allow that).

 

People say they have to answer this type of question when reporting for work (as do I, with no issue), but to get to work I haven't spent over $2000 for two airfares and paid for a cruise. it's easy to explain to someone why you answered "yes" to a question but this is all electronic.   Is Carnival going to look at these and send an e-mail saying "Sorry, you can't sail" or will they come back for exxtra information?   Or wait until you've crossed the continent to say "Oh, you checked off "yes" to a question, we're sorry"?   If think some fine tuning/rewording may be necessary.

Pretty much what I was saying. The form needs clarification.

[TNcruising02]

It sounds like if a person checks any of the symptoms that are similar to covid, they will simply be pulled aside for a health screening to make sure those symptoms aren't covid.  Maybe they will even have quick covid tests available.

[Lee Cruiser]

44 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

It sounds like if a person checks any of the symptoms that are similar to covid, they will simply be pulled aside for a health screening to make sure those symptoms aren't covid.  Maybe they will even have quick covid tests available.

That's what I'm thinking as well. May not test everyone, but most likely will test those showing any kind of symptoms.