Sail Safe update?

[coastcat]

Did NCL just update their Sail Safe page today? Since no one has mentioned this yet and I can’t imagine it passing without comment…

 

Benefits of 100% Vaccination Requirements

Cruise Mask-free 

Breathe freely and witness smiles everywhere you go!

 

No Capacity Restrictions

Appreciate the full Norwegian experience — all venues and experiences are entirely open.

 

No Social Distancing Required

Get up close and personal with confidence, everyone on board is vaccinated.

 

All Restaurants & Experiences Are Fully Open

Dine in any of our restaurants mask-free, including our self-service buffet. Plus enjoy all entertainment options

 

No Restrictions on Shore Excursions

Feel Free to take the shore excursion you’ve been dreaming of or explore on your own!

 

 

So:

• NO to masks, reduced numbers on board, and social distancing
• YES to self-service buffets, everything being available, and DIY shore excursions 

 

[JamieLogical]

Self-service buffet! I had briefly convinced myself that I preferred not having self-service after another thread made it clear how usuriously some people take hand hygiene. But I do think that I just prefer the self-service buffet experience if I can push the sanitation concerns out of my mind. To be clear, I am not worried about getting COVID from surfaces in the buffet, but there are a lot of illnesses that can be more easily spread on surfaces that I am not vaccinated against.

[roger001]

All sounds great to me.  

[coastcat]

16 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

Self-service buffet! I had briefly convinced myself that I preferred not having self-service after another thread made it clear how usuriously some people take hand hygiene. But I do think that I just prefer the self-service buffet experience if I can push the sanitation concerns out of my mind. To be clear, I am not worried about getting COVID from surfaces in the buffet, but there are a lot of illnesses that can be more easily spread on surfaces that I am not vaccinated against.

The page is light on details. I wonder if the buffet will be self-service as it was before or if the new definition really means that you select what you want but a crew member handles the serving utensils at some/most stations. I think self-serve will be pretty sanitary at first, before the hygiene complacency returns to pre-pandemic levels.
 

I may be quite wrong about the reduced numbers onboard as further down the page it states that capacity will be reduced. By how much, who knows. Block off a couple cabins and hey, that’s a reduction, right?

[CruisinCorey2525]

• No Capacity Restrictions

Reads as venues are not limited and any number of people can enter a section of the ship, but does not mean they aren't still restricting number of bookings or the total # of people on the ship. At least that's how I read it. 

[RocketMan275]

We have a Mar 22 cruse booked. 

We will be happy to board under these rules.

We will not board if masks, social distancing, capacity restrictions on restaurants, etc., are in effect.

[JamieLogical]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

We have a Mar 22 cruse booked. 

We will be happy to board under these rules.

We will not board if masks, social distancing, capacity restrictions on restaurants, etc., are in effect.

 

No reason to suspect that any of those requirements would be in place as long as passengers and crew are vaccinated. Even the current CDC framework for returning to sailing says that none of those things are required if 95% of crew and passengers are vaccinated.

[RaftingJeremy]

I think the only real question was the self serve buffet.   I don’t do buffets anyway so all is normal. 

[coastcat]

11 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

No reason to suspect that any of those requirements would be in place as long as passengers and crew are vaccinated. Even the current CDC framework for returning to sailing says that none of those things are required if 95% of crew and passengers are vaccinated.

And heck, many (most?) states have opened up fully. Okay, in theory that means opens up for vaccinated people but I am just a wee bit skeptical that every adult running around mask free right now is actually eligible to do so….  But I’d be surprised if there are any restrictions on anyone by the end of this year. 
 

I wonder if NCL’s crew will wear masks? I thought the CDC guidelines still required that even for crews on the 95% cruises, but that could change as well. Cruising guidelines over the last few months have been like a Coinstar machine, with change tumbling down and just when you think it’s done, some more dimes drop down.

[JamieLogical]

7 minutes ago, coastcat said:

And heck, many (most?) states have opened up fully. Okay, in theory that means opens up for vaccinated people but I am just a wee bit skeptical that every adult running around mask free right now is actually eligible to do so….  But I’d be surprised if there are any restrictions on anyone by the end of this year. 
 

I wonder if NCL’s crew will wear masks? I thought the CDC guidelines still required that even for crews on the 95% cruises, but that could change as well. Cruising guidelines over the last few months have been like a Coinstar machine, with change tumbling down and just when you think it’s done, some more dimes drop down.

 

As of right now, I believe the return to sailing guidelines say that vaccinated crew do not need to wear masks in crew-only areas, but my impression was they would still be expected to wear masks when interacting with passengers. I could definitely see that changing quickly, though.

[BermudaBound2014]

1 minute ago, JamieLogical said:

. I could definitely see that changing quickly, though.

 

I think things may tighten up more before they relax. 8 fully vaccinated crew members of Odysssey of the Seas just tested positive. They were 2 days away from being fully vetted with the vaccine. RCL has cancelled all Odyssey sailings through the end of July. 

[JamieLogical]

5 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

As of right now, I believe the return to sailing guidelines say that vaccinated crew do not need to wear masks in crew-only areas, but my impression was they would still be expected to wear masks when interacting with passengers. I could definitely see that changing quickly, though.

 

I was incorrect. Here is the latest CDC guidance about mask usage for both crew AND passengers:

 

Fully Vaccinated Travelers

• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that—if they are fully vaccinated—they may gather or conduct activities outdoors, including engaging in extended meal service or beverage consumption, without wearing a mask.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise crew who are fully vaccinated that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in areas of the ship that are inaccessible to passengers.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets).
• For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas.

[roger001]

They had only been in the US for 6 days and none had yet been vaccinated.  So they were probably infected already.  

In a statement sent to TPG, Royal Caribbean said eight crew members on Odyssey of the Seas had tested positive for COVID-19, all on June 10. That was six days after the ship arrived in the U.S. from Europe in advance of its first sailing, which was scheduled for July 3.

At the time the ship arrived in the U.S., none of its 1,400 crew members had been vaccinated for COVID-19. But they were vaccinated soon after the ship’s arrival.

 

And from CNN, we're still not out of the woods here in the US.

With concerns it could become the dominant strain soon, medical experts are underscoring the importance of full vaccination.

"I'm worried about those who are unvaccinated," US Surgeon General Vivek Murthy told CNN on Tuesday, noting the Delta variant "is rapidly increasing here in the United States."

 

 

 

CDC now calls coronavirus Delta variant a 'variant of concern'

The CDC has determined the Delta variant is a "variant of concern," a designation given to strains of the virus that scientists believe are more transmissible or can cause more severe disease.

 

[JamieLogical]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I think things may tighten up more before they relax. 8 fully vaccinated crew members of Odysssey of the Seas just tested positive. They were 2 days away from being fully vetted with the vaccine. RCL has cancelled all Odyssey sailings through the end of July. 

 

The CDC understands that COVID transmission on board can and will still happen with fully vaccinated passengers and crew. The vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing transmission. The question is, are the cruise lines going to be okay with these "outbreaks" on their ships and those landing them in the media spotlight? Do they go back to requiring transmission mitigation measures on board to try to keep case counts to zero, or do they allow for cruising as normal with vaccines and accept some number of cases frequently? The vaccine very effectively prevents hospitalization and death. When it comes down to it, that is what we are trying to prevent here, not positive cases. There are constantly circulating illnesses onboard cruise ships that have low fatality rates. With the vaccines, COVID becomes just another one of those. The CDC accepts that. Hopefully the cruise lines and the media can/will as well.

[JamieLogical]

4 minutes ago, roger001 said:

They had only been in the US for 6 days and none had yet been vaccinated.  So they were probably infected already.  

In a statement sent to TPG, Royal Caribbean said eight crew members on Odyssey of the Seas had tested positive for COVID-19, all on June 10. That was six days after the ship arrived in the U.S. from Europe in advance of its first sailing, which was scheduled for July 3.

At the time the ship arrived in the U.S., none of its 1,400 crew members had been vaccinated for COVID-19. But they were vaccinated soon after the ship’s arrival.

 

And from CNN, we're still not out of the woods here in the US.

With concerns it could become the dominant strain soon, medical experts are underscoring the importance of full vaccination.

"I'm worried about those who are unvaccinated," US Surgeon General Vivek Murthy told CNN on Tuesday, noting the Delta variant "is rapidly increasing here in the United States."

 

 

 

CDC now calls coronavirus Delta variant a 'variant of concern'

The CDC has determined the Delta variant is a "variant of concern," a designation given to strains of the virus that scientists believe are more transmissible or can cause more severe disease.

 

 

Oh, well then, this case proves nothing. They had only received their shots after arriving in the US, so they weren't even fully vaccinated when they contracted COVID. Why is anyone making a big deal out of this. The only people who should care are those on the canceled Odyssey sailings. And it seems like a bit of an overreaction on Royal's part to postpone sailings for so long in response.

[BermudaBound2014]

I absolutely hear you, but this is a big deal because anyone with cruises booked in the near future are subject to these requirements. Since rcl’s response was to cancel Odysseys test cruise and all revenue generating cruises through the end of July, That is a pretty heavy hand. I can’t remember off the top of my but I’m thinking according to conditions to sail, once a crew tests positive the entire ship loses the “green” status for 30 days. 

[Jamesatgsu]

Hearing that makes me sooooo excited for my Jade cruise next month.

[JamieLogical]

9 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 I can’t remember off the top of my but I’m thinking according to conditions to sail, once a crew tests positive the entire ship loses the “green” status for 30 days. 

 

Is that only prior to revenue cruises? Shutting down a ship for 30 days if one crew member tests positive once revenue sailings have begun would be completely insane.

[BermudaBound2014]

9 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Is that only prior to revenue cruises? Shutting down a ship for 30 days if one crew member tests positive once revenue sailings have begun would be completely insane.

 

Unfortunately, I think this falls in the insane category. On a more positive note, a quick glance, it looks to me like the CDC relaxed the guidelines form 30 days to 14 days. But, that doesn't explain why RCL cancelled all cruises for over 30 days?

 

We know that people/crew are going to test positive even if fully vaccinated; and I agree, the real question here is how cruise lines respond (and what they are required to do based on the CDC). It's so complicated. That's why I think this new information about RCL is applicable to NCL sailors. We know that both the gem and joy crew aren't even fully vaccinated yet.

 

My golf league is starting, I'm sure someone can dig up the CDC order and supply the exact requirements from the CDC to confirm/deny. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[zerooveride]

Personally, I was looking forward to not having self-serve buffets and having a crew member serve me. I got Noro on the Carnival Dream in 2010 (I didn't know it was Noro until I got home) and it was not fun. Luckily it only impacted the last two days of the cruise.

 

On the other hand, if anyone is going to spread the virus on board I feel it is the crew members. They will be interacting with 1000+ or more different people every week. Much bigger chance for exposure to them.

[casofilia]

 95% of crew and passengers are vaccinated.

 

Surely 100% should be in operation;' NO Vaccination No Boarding; both crew and passengers

[JamieLogical]

5 minutes ago, casofilia said:

 95% of crew and passengers are vaccinated.

 

Surely 100% should be in operation;' NO Vaccination No Boarding; both crew and passengers

 

95% is the threshold set by the CDC. Some cruise lines are using that 5% to allow for some children on board. NCL currently says they will be requiring 100% vaccination through at least October 31.

[aubreyc1988]

Imho, RCI has been really short sighted with the odyssey cases.  They just should have gotten those 8 crew members off the ship into some hotel, clean everything, test everyone again, and find 8 more vaccinated crew members and keep the July 3rd sailing going...but maybe there is something I am missing here. 

[Trimone]

Even after restrictions are lifted I shall stick wear a mask in certain conditions.

 

[JamieLogical]

2 minutes ago, Trimone said:

Even after restrictions are lifted I shall stick wear a mask in certain conditions.

 

 

That is certainly your prerogative. My husband and I have decided that we will wear masks when we are sick to try to prevent spreading our illness to others if we have to go out in public while sick. I remember one time I had to fly when I had a terrible cold and I felt SO BADLY for my seat-mates. Now I know that wearing a mask can help protect them from myself, I will definitely do so if ever in that situation in the future.