Always Included for Elite

[Oxo]

43 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes I definitely understand what you are saying and also what @the penguinsis saying. No disagreement from me.  So for your situation(s) then Celebrity is not a good value for you anymore with their AI pricing strategy.  OK then the ball is in your court.  No need to view this as unfair- just choose another cruise line that gives you the value you need and deserve for your money.  Just because you are Elite+ does not mean you need to give your future business to Celebrity.  Unless of course you are pretty close to Zenith and that means something to you.  

Your totally correct! Choose another cruise line. We do such as MSC. NCL, PRINCESS and RCI.

MSC much cheaper in cost and best value for your money. One of the fastest growing lines today with many new beautiful ships. NCL gives Elite+ (Platinum) 2 free specialty restaurant meals +,  PRINCESS value and excellent ports. RCI so far staying the same except drink coupons that may be used all day.    JMHO.

We are Elite+ on X, Diamond on MSC, Diamond + on RCI and Elite on PRINCESS.

Never obtain Z on X. TOOOOO MANY POINTS REQUIRED.

[Ken the cruiser]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you still get to take advantage of the current loyalty point perks if you book a Cruise Only Guarantee fare?

[Oxo]

7 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

The reason I cruise or travel for that matter, is to have a fun, relaxing, exciting vacation.  Good food, sights, people, drink etc.  if the options I see are not to my liking I simply find one that is.  I/we all have a choice on how we decide to spend our money.  If one does not like what a particular cruise is offering, there are plenty of other ships in the sea.

Yes, we choose other lines! No one line is the best for all. Your$, your choice.

[ipeeinthepool]

2 hours ago, the penguins said:

We are Elite +  and don't (for medical / social reasons) drink alcoholic. The new system is a disaster and grossly unfair. Compare 2 Transatlantics cruises on Silhouette with the same cabin each time. In 2019 for a 15 night including tips we paid £3110. In 2021 for an 11 night we will pay £4178 - where is the value in that?. For solo passengers it is even worse they pay 2 lots of tips, for 2 drink packages and 2 Internet packages - where is the fairness in that?

 

Celebrity understands that some people might not drink alcohol or drink very little and they develop an average price to charge the passengers.  There's a similar situation with the internet, some people use it very little and some people use it a lot.  Celebrity calculates an average cost that divided among all of the passengers.  I have several drinks every day and use wifi extensively, so I'd like to thank the rest of the passengers for subsidizing my drinking and wifi usage.

[Bruin Steve]

2 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

Perks blended into the price? I think not, the Ai some of it most definitely. Until now A person, who is Elite Plus pays exactly the same price as a person taking their first cruise. The Elite Plus gets 240 minutes of internet, free drinks everyday, except embarkation day and Captains Party, for two hours, two bags of laundry, free specialty coffee, and others. What does the newbie get?

 

I think you misread what I was saying a little bit...When they started marketing cruises with the perks attached in the deal, it was more beneficial to the newbie than the E or E+...We got drinks from 5-7 anyway--which is a bulk of the time most of us drink--assuming most don't drink early morning and are off the ship while in port.  So, if an Elite or E+ booked the deal with the perks, we were only adding those drinks we'd typically drink earlier in the day on at sea days and then, after 7...while newbies got ALL drinks free...So, the included drink package was far more beneficial to a newbie than an Elite.

 

But, yes, anything the cruise line gives you is blended into the overall price structure somewhere.  Nothing is really free.  Under a no perk format, though, yes, those not having the perk subsidize those who do...but the cruise line wins no matter what.

[Godblessourhome]

3 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I think Celebrity needs to offer two prices on all cruises- AI and no perks included.

That is a great idea!!  A win-win situation for both X and its loyal customers.  Only happy customers will be loyal repeating customers - other wise, they will go somewhere else.

Agreed: Celebrity needs to offer two prices on all cruises- AI and no perks included.

[LGW59]

3 minutes ago, Godblessourhome said:

That is a great idea!!  A win-win situation for both X and its loyal customers.  Only happy customers will be loyal repeating customers - other wise, they will go somewhere else.

Agreed: Celebrity needs to offer two prices on all cruises- AI and no perks included.

You post this saying I said 3 hours ago, hmmm, more like 3+ months ago when I posted this.  Godbless but just be more forthright when quoting someone.  Have fun with cut and paste!

[cantstopingcruising]

The  way I see it, there are two camps.

There are the old timers,(like us) who knew how great Celebrity  used to be and now along with all the cutbacks are seeing exorbitant pricing and there are the newbies who don't understand how disappointed we are.  Instead of being critical and even nasty, try to have a little empathy.  I find it very insulting when one poster tells another to "go elsewhere" or not to complain.

 

All I can say is that our winter cruises for 2022 , b2b, 21 days, booked pre-covid are under $9,000 Cad. and the same thing is almost $17,000 Cad. for 2023.  If you think this is normal pricing, good luck to you!

[Shadow9612]

4 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

As long as we each get 1 bag of laundry (up to 30 pieces) and 2 bags each once we make elite+, we're good! 😎

And don't forget the one scoop of gelato 🤪🤣

[Redtravel]

You probably haven’t been tuned into travel during the pandemic. Like many people, it hasn’t been a great time to think about cruising since cruises were not sailing since March 2020. Now that some cruises have started to sail,  you are looking at potential travel.  While we were all stuck at home, marketing marvels have been developing new strategies to improve sales and up profits. The new All In is a sales incentive to attract new people.  The down side is people who were formally loyal elites or higher are finding out that All In means less loyalty value.  Annoyed?  Yes. surprised?  No.  Most prices are up.  You have choices when booking travel.  Look at other options.  

[Shadow9612]

4 hours ago, LGW59 said:

The reason I cruise or travel for that matter, is to have a fun, relaxing, exciting vacation.  Good food, sights, people, drink etc.  if the options I see are not to my liking I simply find one that is.  I/we all have a choice on how we decide to spend our money.  If one does not like what a particular cruise is offering, there are plenty of other ships in the sea.

Although I agree with the point you and others have made about individuals having the choice on how to spend their money, I think there is still the related concept of the devaluation of a loyalty program.

 

I have sailed almost exclusively with Celebrity for the last decade because I love their product.  I still do.  I even understand and agree with having to pay more now to help keep Celebrity in business.  I don't want them to fail.

 

However, I have also made decisions about sailings with Celebrity (eg concierge cabin for more points instead of a verandah) to accrue loyalty points over time.

 

So it does bother me slightly if Celebrity is making marketing decisions that devalue the loyalty benefits that I have built up over the last 10 years. 

 

The whole point of a loyalty program should be to give benefits to loyal customers. The longer a person has been loyal to a brand, the greater their benefits should be.

 

I'm nowhere near Zenith, but this is why I believe the reductions in Zenith benefits are wrong or unfair.

 

So while the people who are saying it's our choice how we spend our money, and if we're not happy with celebrity, go elsewhere, they are correct.  But I think the people who are saying they're disappointed in the devaluation of the loyalty benefits, are also correct.

[the penguins]

4 hours ago, Godblessourhome said:

That is a great idea!!  A win-win situation for both X and its loyal customers.  Only happy customers will be loyal repeating customers - other wise, they will go somewhere else.

Agreed: Celebrity needs to offer two prices on all cruises- AI and no perks included.

A great idea and, until Celebrity launched it's current programme it's exactly what they offered. If it ain't broke don't fix it springs to mind. I would just tweak it to be basic including the tips and all inclusive. 

[4774Papa]

12 hours ago, mom says said:

Of course. There are still fares available that are base fares, without the AI features. You just have to look for them. Or have your TA look for them.

 

Or you can move to another line, where you may pay less, and have no loyalty perks.

 

So, there are choices for pricing. Choose what suits you best.

The cruises that offer just base fares are largely short cruises that we don't do and mostly in the Caribbean, which we don't do anymore.

[Oxo]

The main subject of concern is drinks. What about the perk we had previously of Dining with an Officer. There was another posting on this and it died. 

I considered that a very good perk.

Sometimes it was in the MDR and other times in a Specialty Restaurant.

 

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 I have several drinks every day and use wifi extensively, so I'd like to thank the rest of the passengers for subsidizing my drinking and wifi usage.

ipee- No problem.  Glad to do it!😀

[cruising teacher]

14 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you still get to take advantage of the current loyalty point perks if you book a Cruise Only Guarantee fare?

I really hope that is true! I really don’t think anyone knows for sure. 

[TeeRick]

9 hours ago, Redtravel said:

The new All In is a sales incentive to attract new people.  The down side is people who were formally loyal elites or higher are finding out that All In means less loyalty value.  Annoyed?  Yes. surprised?  No.  Most prices are up.  You have choices when booking travel.  Look at other options.  

Yes you definitely get it.  

Celebrity built EDGE and APEX to attract new customers.  And started AI to market to new customers.  The purpose is to attract young(er) customers and get them to consider cruising with them going forward as a primary vacation option.  Just like us more experienced cruisers when we started out years ago.  Loyalty programs and levels are an incentive that much of the travel industry uses to get customers established and to keep coming come back (early on).  But once you get to the top tiers, they already got your money previously so there is little incentive to keep you and give you more and more benefits ($cost).  Better for them to get you to go elsewhere.  Just why is there such a gap between E+ and Zenith?  They want to encourage us E+ cruisers to go elsewhere now.  Fill the expensive ships with eager to pay new customers.  Get them hooked on the expensive stuff like staying in suites and The Retreat.  E-class was designed just for this purpose.   Loyalty is a one way street going from you to Celebrity.  Not the other way-ever.  As an E+ I do enjoy their product and experience and that is why I still cruise with them.  Not because of free laundry or other minor perks.  I will just spend future vacation money on whatever cruise line or ship gives me the value and experience I am looking for.  If one focuses on loyalty perks as a reason to cruise then one is looking to be disappointed.  There is no reason to get offended by a marketing program and think it is unfair that others are getting the same as you after you "earned it" and they did not.  Just cruise elsewhere.

[Ken the cruiser]

44 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes you definitely get it.  

Celebrity built EDGE and APEX to attract new customers.  And started AI to market to new customers.  The purpose is to attract young(er) customers and get them to consider cruising with them going forward as a primary vacation option.  Just like us more experienced cruisers when we started out years ago.nd they did not.  Just cruise elsewhere.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Rick. Just look at this promotion of the Edge. There isn't one person I can see over 40! 😎

 

Video: Celebrity Edge Full Ship Tour | Celebrity Cruises

[NutsAboutGolf]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes you definitely get it.  

Celebrity built EDGE and APEX to attract new customers.  And started AI to market to new customers.  The purpose is to attract young(er) customers and get them to consider cruising with them going forward as a primary vacation option.  Just like us more experienced cruisers when we started out years ago.  Loyalty programs and levels are an incentive that much of the travel industry uses to get customers established and to keep coming come back (early on).  But once you get to the top tiers, they already got your money previously so there is little incentive to keep you and give you more and more benefits ($cost).  Better for them to get you to go elsewhere.  Just why is there such a gap between E+ and Zenith?  They want to encourage us E+ cruisers to go elsewhere now.  Fill the expensive ships with eager to pay new customers.  Get them hooked on the expensive stuff like staying in suites and The Retreat.  E-class was designed just for this purpose.   Loyalty is a one way street going from you to Celebrity.  Not the other way-ever.  As an E+ I do enjoy their product and experience and that is why I still cruise with them.  Not because of free laundry or other minor perks.  I will just spend future vacation money on whatever cruise line or ship gives me the value and experience I am looking for.  If one focuses on loyalty perks as a reason to cruise then one is looking to be disappointed.  There is no reason to get offended by a marketing program and think it is unfair that others are getting the same as you after you "earned it" and they did not.  Just cruise elsewhere.

 

There has been explosive growth with AI's in the Caribbean.  It's a lot easier to market the Always Included fare vs "book today and get 3 perks, but book tomorrow and only get 2 perks".

[NutsAboutGolf]

18 hours ago, Oxo said:

Your totally correct! Choose another cruise line. We do such as MSC. NCL, PRINCESS and RCI.

MSC much cheaper in cost and best value for your money. One of the fastest growing lines today with many new beautiful ships. NCL gives Elite+ (Platinum) 2 free specialty restaurant meals +,  PRINCESS value and excellent ports. RCI so far staying the same except drink coupons that may be used all day.    JMHO.

We are Elite+ on X, Diamond on MSC, Diamond + on RCI and Elite on PRINCESS.

Never obtain Z on X. TOOOOO MANY POINTS REQUIRED.

 

MSC will match your status to another cruise or even hotel status.

[Oxo]

46 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

MSC will match your status to another cruise or even hotel status.

Yes, previously MSC awarded Black Card status. Black card changed to Diamond which is tops. 

Now they award based on your cruise line status, thus not always Diamond like in the past.

[patty1955]

I like the “Always Included” pricing. I realize that nothing is really free but I like the convenience of having it built in. We’re almost to the Elite Plus level and while I miss some of the benefits, I’ll trade a drink package for a few drinks during happy hour anytime.

With all the complaining and marketing changes, I’m sure this won’t last long. When it ends, I hope they continue to include the gratuities in the price. Having them as a separate cost made sense when you were giving cash to crew members at the end of your cruise. Now that it’s a set price (that’s almost impossible to remove) it should be included in the cost of the cruise.

[Covepointcruiser]

Does anyone on the board know of a Loyalty Program anywhere that hasn’t decreased in value?   All of the airlines keep increasing the number of miles needed for travel while the hotel chains have increased the points needed for free stays.   Celebrity is doing fairly good at not decreasing their benefits.   Zenith members in the Retreat Lounge devalued the lounges value to suite guests by adding to the crowding.   Zenith members still get the perk of premium beverages anywhere on board.   Officers will probably start eating with guests once the COVID pandemic is over.

[Christine Frances]

On 7/3/2021 at 2:13 PM, 4774Papa said:

AI means higher prices and AI means most of our Elite benefits are history.   Now cruising with X means paying a lot more than with Royal C or Princess.

I don’t mind the AI and I just augment it with the Elite+ perks.  Never went to the 5-7  cocktail hour because 1)  we were not enamoured with the included drinks and 2) we do early seating for dinner so we only had about 45 min. 
 

so for years we booked cruises where the classic pkg was offered then upgraded to Premium.    Have the drink package let us have drinks at anytime of the day.  
 

we pretty much take advantage of all these perks 🙂

 

[jg51]

1 hour ago, patty1955 said:

I like the “Always Included” pricing. ... With all the complaining and marketing changes, I’m sure this won’t last long. When it ends, I hope they continue to include the gratuities in the price. ... Now that it’s a set price (that’s almost impossible to remove) it should be included in the cost of the cruise.

.

Hello, "patty1955."

We hope that you can you help us to understand something that you mentioned, above.

 

You said that the charge for what Celebrity calls "gratuities" is "a set price that's almost impossible to remove."  You used the words, "almost impossible."  Under what conditions is it possible "to remove" all or part of that charge -- and when can it be removed?  Here's why we're asking ...

 

For many years, some people (from some nations/cultures) did not follow the custom of allowing gratuities to be posted to their accounts automatically, during cruises.  So they [not us] would go to Guest Relations, on Embarkation Day, and would ask that gratuities not be charged -- and Celebrity complied with their wishes. 

 

Now, however, the so-called gratuities are being placed on a booking guest's invoice, months before the cruise (via the "Always Included" feature).  That is what caused us to ask you, above, "Under what conditions is it possible 'to remove' all or part of that charge -- and when?"  [PS:  We used the phrase, "so-called gratuities," because they are actually "service charges," not genuine "gratuities" [a word that means "free-will rewards/tips, given after a service has been rendered, not forcibly charged in advance."]

 

So, we wonder if you know ...

~~~ Could it be that it is actually impossible to remove forcibly prepaid "gratuities," regardless of whether it is (a) while booking, (b) on Embarkation Day, or (c) on some later day? 

~~~ If it really is possible to remove the forcibly prepaid "gratuities" -- can they be removed completely on Embarkation Day, as in the past, resulting in an On-Board Credit? 

~~~ Or if it really is possible to partially reduce the forcibly prepaid "gratuities" (in the midst of the cruise, due to dissatisfaction with services received), would that result in On-Board Credit?

 

Just to clarify something:  We certainly do not wish to do either of the above (remove all of the service charges on E-Day nor remove part of them during a cruise).  In over thirty cruises, we have never removed all the (daily-posted) service charges, and only once have we reduced them.  However, we (and probably some other members) would be interested to know what Celebrity's policy will be on this topic, now that "Always Included" has come into existence.

 

Thank you, if you (or someone else) are able to reply.

.

Edited July 4, 2021 by jg51