Always Included for Elite

[davekathy]

3 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I don't want to sail with folks that do this...unless the adjustment is upwards.  

I believe with gratuities being part of the AI the option to remove gratuities is no longer. 

[Ken the cruiser]

On 7/4/2021 at 7:58 PM, keesar said:

 

The deadline is noon of the last full day of the cruise to adjust the tips.

So, the stewards and waiters can provide great service the entire cruise and on the last day a passenger can remove the gratuities for all of the previous days sailed rather than just that day and any days to follow? That just doesn't seem right, especially if the stewards and waiters are under the assumption they are be getting paid for providing that service. Afterall, the gratuities pretty much make up most of the monies that go into paying the salaries of the stewards and waiters and, in the case of the suite guests, the butlers as well. Wow, that really is depressing.

[LGW59]

2 hours ago, davekathy said:

I believe with gratuities being part of the AI the option to remove gratuities is no longer. 

I hope so

[keesar]

2 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I don't want to sail with folks that do this...unless the adjustment is upwards.  

We pay the automatic gratuities which are posted daily.  During the cruise, we obtain  the envelopes from Guest Relations which we  use for exceptional service to select crew..

 

I also observed someone at Guest Relations asking that the gratuities be removed and the agent asking why didn't they notify staff earlier in the cruise.  Great question...

Edited July 6, 2021 by keesar

[patty1955]

28 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

So, the stewards and waiters can provide great service the entire cruise and on the last day a passenger can remove the gratuities for all of the previous days sailed rather than just that day and any days to follow? That just doesn't seem right, especially if the stewards and waiters are under the assumption they are be getting paid for providing that service. Afterall, the gratuities pretty much make up most of the monies that go into paying the salaries of the stewards and waiters and, in the case of the suite guests, the butlers as well. Wow, that really is depressing.

On one cruise, we watched a couple run the sommelier ragged every night. Every night except the last night, when they didn't come to the dining room

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, patty1955 said:

On one cruise, we watched a couple run the sommelier ragged every night. Every night except the last night, when they didn't come to the dining room

Because they were probably very busy removing gratuities

[Straughn]

I am now confused about Simply Sail. I know that you do not get the alcohol package or Wi-Fi. Are the gratuities not included and, instead, charged to your account daily?  
 

I am a firm believer in tipping, and tipping well. I always get on the ship with an envelope full of $5, $10, $20 bills. I always tip my butler, my cabin steward, server, and especially bartenders,  some extra $$ at the end of the cruise. I cannot understand how a passenger would not want to pay gratuities to those who treat them so well and do so with a smile.

[davekathy]

1 hour ago, Straughn said:

I am now confused about Simply Sail. I know that you do not get the alcohol package or Wi-Fi. Are the gratuities not included and, instead, charged to your account daily?  
 

I am a firm believer in tipping, and tipping well. I always get on the ship with an envelope full of $5, $10, $20 bills. I always tip my butler, my cabin steward, server, and especially bartenders,  some extra $$ at the end of the cruise. I cannot understand how a passenger would not want to pay gratuities to those who treat them so well and do so with a smile.

No AI, no CBP, WiFi or gratuities. Gratuities will be charged to your onboard account as they were before AI. Not worth concerning yourself with why or what others do. We like the AI part of gratuities and the CBP being part of the cruise price. WiFI, can do without it. Only use about 15 minutes of our CC internet perk on the last day/evening of the cruise. 

[Germancruiser]

Never, in my wildest dream would i remove tips. It´s part of their wages- as I understand it.

Also NEVER IN MY WILDEST DREAMS  would I  " Go Green" in the cabin department. I want my full service- I want to be spoiled on a cruise- I enjoy coming into my cabin and finding everything shipshape and Bristol fashion. I enjoy my towels changed every day.

By the way I am also a very neat person who let´s nothing laying about in the cabin.

In my point of view cleaning my cabin and such is not a burden - it ís a job. If said job is done well- i never miss to tip extra.

A burden would be if they did not have jobs.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Germancruiser

[SWFL Cruisers]

12 hours ago, patty1955 said:

On one cruise, we watched a couple run the sommelier ragged every night. Every night except the last night, when they didn't come to the dining room

That is so wrong! We just finished a B2B on Millennium and had amazing service in the main dining room however, on the last night we had a dinner in Tuscan, so right after dinner we went straight to the MDR and gave our waiter, assistant waiter and sommelier their "Thank You" envelopes.  I would have felt so bad had we of not let them know they went above and beyond.

Cheers!

[4774Papa]

We have done 20 ocean cruises and never had a major problem with service in the MDR or room stewards.   

[TeeRick]

I am not at all defending the "removal of gratuities" practice.  But on any tipping thread (now like this one) it is common to criticize others.  But it is also well known that tipping is cultural.  In the US we tip for everything and anything.  Used to be 15% now more like 20% or more.  In a number of countries tipping is not common and the amounts tipped are more typically 10% if at all.  The passengers from those countries are uncomfortable with tipping for certain services and the amounts automatically added.  But it is really the culture and necessity of tipping on cruise ships that should be followed and most do.  This part of AI with tips included is a good idea in general for the staff and removes the hesitancy of tipping factor for some.  But IMO it would be best to just build daily salary for the crew into the basic cruise fare and take away the option to remove tips.  People could still tip extra anytime they wanted to for exceptional service.

[hcat]

15 hours ago, patty1955 said:

On one cruise, we watched a couple run the sommelier ragged every night. Every night except the last night, when they didn't come to the dining room

I believe a svc chg for sommelier is added per glass or bottle so that should remain...of course most who use nightly  sommeler service tip extra at the end of the cruise. We do

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, hcat said:

I believe a svc chg for sommelier is added per glass or bottle so that should remain...of course most who use nightly  sommeler service tip extra at the end of the cruise. We do

hcat- yes a service charge is added.  Good Point.

[jg51]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I am not at all defending the "removal of gratuities" practice.  ... But it is also well known that tipping is cultural.  ...  In a number of countries tipping is not common and the amounts tipped are more typically 10% if at all.  The passengers from those countries are uncomfortable with tipping for certain services and the amounts automatically added.   But it is really the culture and necessity of tipping on cruise ships that should be followed and most do.  ... But IMO it would be best to just build daily salary for the crew into the basic cruise fare and take away the option to remove tips.  People could still tip extra anytime they wanted to for exceptional service.

.

Thank you, TeeRick.

Of all the (dozens/scores/hundreds?) of comments on this topic that we have seen at CruiseCritic, over the past decade, yours are probably the wisest -- particularly the phrases we have highlighted above.

 

In fact, we would re-phrase the "green" sentence above.  We would say that ALL fares should simply be increased by the amount of the service charge [$15 to $19 per day].  Then, the very subject of so-called "gratuities" can be totally dropped from the conversation!   This could/should be done for all fares -- both those falling under the "Always Included" concept and those falling under a "Simply Sail" (or similar) booking. 

 

You are right to say that "People could still tip extra, anytime they wanted to, for exceptional service" -- although we would not use the word, "extra," because such amounts given would be the only genuine "tips/gratuities."   Any amount that we have to pay from home, before a cruise -- and any amount forced on a guest (such as 20% for a beverage) -- is a "service charge," not a "tip/gratuity."

 

If anyone has doubts about the cultural differences that you mentioned -- or doubts that a tip/gratuity is a free-will act, done only after services have been rendered -- he/she should have a quick look at the Wikipedia page for "Gratuity."  It explains everything clearly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity.

 

PS:  Just to clarify, lest anyone jump to a wrong conclusion about us ...

We are not from a nation in which gratuities and service charges are against the custom.  On our 30+ cruises, we have allowed the daily charging of gratuities to our accounts [lowering them a bit, only once], and we have also given extra cash tips galore, because they have been deserved.

.

Edited July 7, 2021 by jg51

[4774Papa]

40 minutes ago, jg51 said:

.

Thank you, TeeRick.

Of all the (dozens/scores/hundreds?) of comments on this topic that we have seen at CruiseCritic, over the past decade, yours are probably the wisest -- particularly the phrases we have highlighted above.

 

In fact, we would re-phrase the "green" sentence above.  We would say that ALL fares should simply be increased by the amount of the service charge [$15 to $19 per day].  Then, the very subject of so-called "gratuities" can be totally dropped from the conversation!   This could/should be done for all fares -- both those falling under the "Always Included" concept and those falling under a "Simply Sail" (or similar) booking. 

 

You are right to say that "People could still tip extra, anytime they wanted to, for exceptional service" -- although we would not use the word, "extra," because such amounts given would be the only genuine "tips/gratuities."   Any amount that we have to pay from home, before a cruise -- and any amount forced on a guest (such as 20% for a beverage) -- is a "service charge," not a "tip/gratuity."

 

If anyone has doubts about the cultural differences that you mentioned -- or doubts that a tip/gratuity is a free-will act, done only after services have been rendered -- he/she should have a quick look at the Wikipedia page for "Gratuity."  It explains everything clearly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity.

 

PS:  Just to clarify, lest anyone jump to a wrong conclusion about us ...

We are not from a nation in which gratuities and service charges are against the custom.  On our 30+ cruises, we have allowed the daily charging of gratuities to our accounts [lowering them a bit, only once], and we have also given extra cash tips galore, because they have been deserved.

.

That link you provided was excellent, it is very accurate.   We didn't find tipping was customary in East Asia (Japan, Malaysia, Singapore or China).   Tipping in Scandinavia is not customary, Germany a modest round up of the bill, other European countries if service is not included, then perhaps 10%.

 

Tipping in the USA has been said by some to hurt the service employees, but I have two children that worked as wait staff while in college and made very well.   One cousin in the Atlanta area work at a nice restaurant about 25  hrs a week and made $35K a year (this was 7-8 years ago).

[Fouremco]

No discussion on gratuities should ignore the fact that some countries do not tax income from gratuities, while others tax such income but at a lower rate. Consequently, a cruise line that adds an additional amount in salary equivalent to the amount previously passed on as gratuities potentially disadvantages crew members. The passenger still pays the same amount, as cruise fare instead of gratuities; the cruise line still passes the money on under the rubric "salary"; and the crew member still receives the same amount, but may now be taxed on it. So no real change for passengers or cruise lines, but a potential loss for crew.  

[cantstopingcruising]

1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

No discussion on gratuities should ignore the fact that some countries do not tax income from gratuities, while others tax such income but at a lower rate. Consequently, a cruise line that adds an additional amount in salary equivalent to the amount previously passed on as gratuities potentially disadvantages crew members. The passenger still pays the same amount, as cruise fare instead of gratuities; the cruise line still passes the money on under the rubric "salary"; and the crew member still receives the same amount, but may now be taxed on it. So no real change for passengers or cruise lines, but a potential loss for crew.  

I don't think crew and staff are heavily taxed. Not like us!!!!

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, cantstopingcruising said:

I don't think crew and staff are heavily taxed. Not like us!!!!

I'm sure they'd be quite happy trading salaries received  and taxes paid with you! 

[4774Papa]

54 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I'm sure they'd be quite happy trading salaries received  and taxes paid with you! 

Agree, however, I know that the USA is one of the few countries in the World that taxes its citizens that live outside the USA.

I know most cruise  line workers are from the Philippines, Indonesia, Pakistan and India.  Not sure what they tax laws are regarding expatriates.   

[cantstopingcruising]

3 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Agree, however, I know that the USA is one of the few countries in the World that taxes its citizens that live outside the USA.

I know most cruise  line workers are from the Philippines, Indonesia, Pakistan and India.  Not sure what they tax laws are regarding expatriates.   

Probably that is why you will not find too many Americans working ion the ships. Lots of Canadians, though!

[4774Papa]

1 minute ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Probably that is why you will not find too many Americans working ion the ships. Lots of Canadians, though!

Never met a Canadian working on a cruise ship.  The Americans working are usually entertainers or ship's crew.   We  have met Europeans from Greece, Ukraine and Balkan countries.

[cantstopingcruising]

Just now, 4774Papa said:

Never met a Canadian working on a cruise ship.  The Americans working are usually entertainers or ship's crew.   We  have met Europeans from Greece, Ukraine and Balkan countries.

Met Canadians working in the shops and in activities and counselors

[Fouremco]

14 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Met Canadians working in the shops and in activities and counselors

And as Cruise Directors.

[TeeRick]

18 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

And as Cruise Directors.

I've met Canadians mostly drinking beer.😀