NCLH sues Florida over vaccine passport ban

[Needzavacation]

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings sues Florida over vaccine passport ban (thepointsguy.com)

[flossie009]

So Florida sues the CDC and NCLH sues Florida.

Not sure what positive outcomes all this litigation will achieve but it should keep a few lawyers busy for a while  🙄

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by flossie009

[pingpong1]

This is a big deal!  This is the only clear/legal/fast/definitive way (in our system) that a  ruling and resolution of this matter can be determined quickly enough that the cruise industry can "get on with its business" in an orderly and timely way; and obtain reasonable clarity on how they can quickly and efficiently run their industry in the next several critical months of "re-start".  I think this will be an important case to see which entity (federal or state)  has over-arching authority and jurisdiction for setting health policies, and related enforcement of those policies, for cruise lines doing business in the U.S.

[pingpong1]

6 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Marc (who is fully vaccinated but doesn't believe governments or companies can require proof)

Marc - Do you believe that government can require proof that children have been vaccinated for a number of communicable diseases (whooping cough, polio, chickenpox, etc) before they can attend school?

[pingpong1]

18 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Yes, and allow exemptions.  But Chuck E Cheese is not allowed to ask for proof of vaccination before attending a birthday party.

But apparently, they are allowed to refuse you service if you don't have shoes and a shirt on.  The only difference is they don't have to ask you if you're wearing shoes....they can clearly see whether you are or are not.  No one can just "look at you" and tell whether you've had the vaccine or not.

[Dolebludger]

I will not argue any legalities here, though I suppose I could. What I will say is that we will not board a cruise without 100% of guests and crew having proof of vaccination. We are far from alone in this. We are fully vaccinated (two jabs) and feel the vaccine is highly effective. We don't greatly fear catching the disease from the unvaccinated. The fear is an outbreak among the unvaccinated and the ship being quarantined and not allowed to dock anywhere -- as happened last year. Regardless of this issue in FL, I hope Regent requires proof of vaccination on all its cruises that do not touch FL. We know that proof of vaccination via CDC cards is not perfect, but is the only system we have, and it is better than nothing.

[Pcardad]

NCL will require proof. If they are not allowed to obtain proof, they will cancel the cruises out of Florida.

[forgap]

Curious what will happen if you booked a cruise because of the 100% vaccination policy, you have paid your final payment, the cancellation penalties are ticking away, and NCL looses the lawsuit and unvaccinated passengers can be on board.   Can you get a full refund as you booked BECAUSE of the 100% vaccination policy?  This can get messy very quickly.  

[Dolebludger]

I suspect Picardad is correct. If Regent can’t require vaccination proof, the cruises will be cancelled. Those booked and paid will be offered FCCs or refund. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Dolebludger

[GOARMY]

Just-posted reference to this instant situation on separate "15 Nov Miami-Miami" Thread. 

 

Again--how about Puerto Rico? 

 

Otherwise, unless some entity blinks--this will become our fifth canceled Regent cruise.  

 

GOARMY!

 

  

[mrlevin]

1 hour ago, Pcardad said:

NCL will require proof. If they are not allowed to obtain proof, they will cancel the cruises out of Florida.

But CCL and RCL are cruising out of Florida with almost all vaccinated.

[Pcardad]

Just my opinion...I think they will cancel before running with non-vax-pax.

[TomBeckCruise]

41 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

But CCL and RCL are cruising out of Florida with almost all vaccinated.

When I go to the grocery store the sign says "vaccinated customers do not need to wear masks, unvaccinated customers should still wear a mask"

Almost no one has one on. Tennessee has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country.

 

So does ccl and rcl have a sign that says, "show us proof of vaccination if you want to"?

 

How do they know?

 

[pingpong1]

50 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

But CCL and RCL are cruising out of Florida with almost all vaccinated.

Marc how do they "confirm" that (whether you "are" or "aren't" vaccinated), or even determine the percentage of passengers who are vaccinated, if they're not even allowed to ask for proof/documentation?

[pingpong1]

3 minutes ago, TomBeckCruise said:

When I go to the grocery store the sign says "vaccinated customers do not need to wear masks, unvaccinated customers should still wear a mask"

Almost no one has one on. Tennessee has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country.

 

So does ccl and rcl have a sign that says, "show us proof of vaccination if you want to"?

 

How do they know?

 

Tom, there's a bit of difference, but it's an important difference.  On CCL and RCL you "don't have to prove" that you've been vaccinated....but if you don't show any proof, you will be treated as if you're "un-vaccinated" and will be restricted from various venues and access, accordingly.  If you do/can voluntarily show proof of vaccination, you will be "treated" without restrictions and with full and open access to everything on the ship.  A "brilliant work-around" I think, under the circumstances.

[mrlevin]

12 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

Marc how do they "confirm" that (whether you "are" or "aren't" vaccinated), or even determine the percentage of passengers who are vaccinated, if they're not even allowed to ask for proof/documentation?

If you "voluntarily" provide proof of vaccination, you get free roam of ship.  If you do not "voluntarily" provide proof of vaccination you are limited and must get tested and retested and wear a mask and all other sorts of penalties.

 

This isn't rocket science.

[TomBeckCruise]

18 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

Tom, there's a bit of difference, but it's an important difference.  On CCL and RCL you "don't have to prove" that you've been vaccinated....but if you don't show any proof, you will be treated as if you're "un-vaccinated" and will be restricted from various venues and access, accordingly.  If you do/can voluntarily show proof of vaccination, you will be "treated" without restrictions and with full and open access to everything on the ship.  A "brilliant work-around" I think, under the circumstances.

Thanks, I still would not want to be on one of those ships.  Like my grocery store, I think many unvaccinated people feel they have the right to ignore rules. Maybe that's just true where I live.

[Grandmaanne7]

10 minutes ago, TomBeckCruise said:

Thanks, I still would not want to be on one of those ships.  Like my grocery store, I think many unvaccinated people feel they have the right to ignore rules. Maybe that's just true where I live.

Tom, I don't believe that it's true just where you live.  I believe it's true in most places that many people feel they have the right to ignore rules.  At this point, I would much rather be on a 100% vaccinated ship.  Much less chance of being stranded or other inconveniences.

 

I hope Regent chooses to move embarkation ports rather than cancel upcoming cruises out of Florida if the law suit is unsuccessful. I want to cruise!!!

[mrlevin]

4 minutes ago, Grandmaanne7 said:

 

I hope Regent chooses to move embarkation ports rather than cancel upcoming cruises out of Florida if the law suit is unsuccessful. I want to cruise!!!

 

You won't be able to cruise until the USA Canada border is open to Americans going north.  

[Grandmaanne7]

8 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

You won't be able to cruise until the USA Canada border is open to Americans going north.  

The border has always been open for flights as long as quarantine rules are followed.  It's really only been severely limited for driving across.  Also, the restrictions should be easing soon.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Grandmaanne7
clarification

[gcorgain]

49 minutes ago, Grandmaanne7 said:

Tom, I don't believe that it's true just where you live.  I believe it's true in most places that many people feel they have the right to ignore rules.  At this point, I would much rather be on a 100% vaccinated ship.  Much less chance of being stranded or other inconveniences.

 

I hope Regent chooses to move embarkation ports rather than cancel upcoming cruises out of Florida if the law suit is unsuccessful. I want to cruise!!!

One thing that is interesting. In Celebrity's case they have no unvaccinated adults this week and only had 2 last week. Those paid more money, couldn't go to several of the venues and had to wear masks everywhere. They also had an extra $178 to pay for testing. The only annoying thing is that vaccinated guests had to wear wristbands when there were even two unvaccinated adults. I prefer NCL's policy as well, but it seems that Celebrity's approach is effective.

[labonnevie]

Question...would Florida's ban on vaccination proof (if upheld) apply only to cruises leaving from Florida? Or would it also apply to a cruise ending in Florida, (e.g. January 19 Explorer San Diego to Miami)? Asking for a friend...

[Dolebludger]

All, where we live in CO, the vast majority of people obey public health rules. If NCLH can’t overturn the FL. Law, I agree that it should look for another “from and back” port like Puerto Rico or the Bahamas. I can’t answer the question about a cruise that only ends in FL., as I don’t know. I don’t know what the problem is. Vaccines are free.For a time, there were lines and crowds to get them, but no more. They are free and easy to get everywhere. 

[mrlevin]

Richard, I just spent three days in Durango.  Very few wore masks although La Plata County has only 45% fully vaccinated.   Most servers weren't wearing masks, either.  Bagel shop did limit to three customers inside at once but that was only establishment we saw with any protocols in place.  Lovely town and lovely mountains; but not the same as a cruise.

[Dolebludger]

mrlevin,  No, Durango is not like a cruise — especially not now. It’s been hot and overcrowded. All business are under-staffed. Actually the county’s fully vaccinated rate is about 55%, but the rate of new cases is very low, so masks are no longer required, indoors or out. But we carry masks and avoid crowds. When we can’t avoid (grocery stores) we mask up.