Consequence of getting cruise refund by disputing the credit card charge

[Jasalth]

So my experience is a little different situation but figured I would let people know because it shows how charge backs can affect not just being able to book in the future, but things about those bookings. 

 

I had a cruise we had on their monthly payments (though Carnival) that was scheduled for Sept 2020. Well we paid it off early. Then the month after it was paid off.. they charged my card again. Was a quick easy fix, got the $$ back on my card in 10 days. Then the NEXT month (2 months after the cruise was paid in full) they charged my card AGAIN. This happened 5 days after the first set of cancelations hit from Covid.... they told me that their mistake was going to fall into that refund range to fix... so I disputed. 

 

Well.. 1 month later my Sept 2020 cruise was canceled because it was in Italy. So I went to rebook a US 2020 cruise. Had no problem booking it.

 

The issue was.. I was like why is my $600 re-booking credit not showing up?!? Reason? Because I had disputed their mistake charge and wasn't okay with waiting 3-6 months for a refund for it. I had to cancel the dispute with my CC, and wait for the process to go through Carnival to be allowed that $600 OBC, for something that wasn't even related to the cancelation/rebooking. 

 

So I can only image that while they may let you sail, that doesn't mean you will get what is offered even in the future if you do a charge back of any type. 

[4hunters]

1 hour ago, Essiesmom said:

My three cruises - Celebrity, Carnival, Cunard - were refunded in parts from 6 weeks to 3 months.  Fourth cruise I moved to next year.  EM

Consider yourself fortunate. A lot of Carnival and Princess customers were still waiting for refunds at 8+ months. 

[peachhead19]

As a business owner I can assure you that what you did (it's called a chargeback) actually costs the merchant time and money.  So, I don't blame them one bit; if it were me, you would be blocked from paying with any type of card at all. 

[pjhootch]

31 minutes ago, peachhead19 said:

As a business owner I can assure you that what you did (it's called a chargeback) actually costs the merchant time and money.  So, I don't blame them one bit; if it were me, you would be blocked from paying with any type of card at all. 

Yes, absolutely.  Even when the process is theoretically automated, a chargeback is a problem for businesses.   People are sometimes quick on the draw to dispute a charge.  Technically, if the cruiseline doesn't respond in the required 90 days the credit to your account will stand.  However, the resulting chaos is rarely worth it when the merchant is working on a refund process but is slow.  Yes, none of us should have had to wait 6-8 months to receive a refund.  I was impatient too, and called and spoke with customer service more than once.   But Carnival was working on refunds and offering an incentive to rebook instead of receiving a refund.  This was not a merchant who simply did not ship an item and then refused to make it good by refunding your money.   I decided waiting for refunds was preferable to the company having to file bankruptcy.  From a business perspective I do not think a credit card dispute is a legitimate way to handle a slow refund process. Especially during the shut down last year from the pandemic.

 

As a business owner who provides a service- not an item- I am used to people complaining or wanting something for less, or more than is possible.  🙂   I do what I can do to make customers content.  However, when someone crosses a line, whether it is a formal dispute or not, that causes me financial hardship or is a huge time suck and throws a wrench into my business operation. I cut them loose as a customer and will never deal with them again.  Basic business practice.

 

I am glad Carnival is making it possible for those who created a charge off for them to get off their do not sail list.

[EngIceDave]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:49 AM, crooooze said:

Not sure if anyone experienced this....

Last year when it was taking forever to get refunds, I went the route of contacting my credit card to dispute the charge.

Everything worked out and I ended up getting my refund.

 

Fast forward a year, and I’m booking new reservations - Now Carnival is refusing to accept that credit card.

They said it is part of their “Fraud prevention”... I say it is spite.

Very annoying because that card gives me the most reward value.

It's not personal, it's business.

 

You disputed a charge with them with a CC company.

 

They will no longer accept your card, and likely anyone who disputes a charge with them, which is what I would do  as a business owner.

 

Before anyone says "well this is different," everyone thinks their issue is different and their problem is special....it's not. Carnival has millions of customers between all the properties, you're a grain of sand in the financial cog....you got spat out. 

 

They do not have the time to review each and every case, too many. You fought, you won, you're out.

 

Bye bye

[ray98]

I am surprised they did not block you instead of just the card.  I don't think it is worth the aggravation for the business.

[Alibaster McGillicutty]

36 minutes ago, ray98 said:

I am surprised they did not block you instead of just the card.  I don't think it is worth the aggravation for the business.

They may be.  As 4hunters stated, they were on a "Do not sail" list so it was tagged to them rather than just the card.

[EngIceDave]

Can you imagine all the CC disputes they must have?

 

"I didn't order all those drinks"

"The shore excursion was terrible"

"The steakhouse wasn't worth it"

 

and "I want the tips taken off."

 

Would not surprise me they have a blanket cut off for anyone who disputes any charges

[Alibaster McGillicutty]

Thanks to 4hunter and firefly on the explanations.  Those make sense and not unexpected with businesses trying to prevent fraud against them.

 

Now....for the OP's 7 months for a refund?  I would have been exploring my options too.  There are lots of excuses on why it would take so long but at some point it is just "too long to wait."  Every man has his breaking point.

 

Had I been in that boat and a cruise line is telling me I owe them, I would explain it was because of their inability to refund in a reasonable time and give them an opportunity to review that situation.  Doubt it would do any good but I would find other options before sending them any more $.

YMMV

 

Wonder if that applies to CCL or all the lines they own?

[crooooze]

Thank you to all who have showed me the ways to be a rightful person.  Here’s the invaluable lessons I have learned from this thread:

 

1) When the merchant says they will issue a refund credit in 90 days, I should indefinitely wait patiently for that to occur. My personal weakness is that I gave up after 7 months. Should have waited much longer.

 

2) When the merchant finally says they already issued the credit months ago, which I never received, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for a different outcome.  It was already month 7, so I was very impatient when Carnival said there’s not much more they can do and to see what happens in the next 30-60 days. My bad.

 

3) When the credit card company says they have no record of the merchant issuing a credit, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for the credit to magically appear.  Because everyone knows when you take no action, magical things happen.

 

4) I should never under any circumstances ask the credit card company for a temporary credit while this get worked out, especially if the “dispute a charge” process is the official mechanism to do so. Proceeding with this makes me a very bad impatient person who deserves to be disassociated from Carnival.

 

5) Never post anything surprising or negative about Carnival in this forum.

 

For the record, I do have 2 future Carnival cruises book - on another credit card.
 

But again, thank you to those who help me better myself to finance and support a multi-billion dollar corporation. I won’t let you down again.

 

 

 

 

 

[Joebucks]

22 hours ago, Cherries Jubilee said:

Uber does this too if that makes you feel any better. I don’t think it’s spite. I think it’s computerized. A new card number is all you need for them.

Years ago, I disputed an Uber charge as the pricing was hugely deceptive. I got it reversed. Uber would not let me do ANYTHING with that account until that balance was paid back. 

 

The moral of the story is that there are consequences for disputing. Merchants deal with this all of the time. Often fraudulent claims. They will have no issues banning people.

[jimbo5544]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:49 AM, crooooze said:

Not sure if anyone experienced this....

Last year when it was taking forever to get refunds, I went the route of contacting my credit card to dispute the charge.

Everything worked out and I ended up getting my refund.

 

Fast forward a year, and I’m booking new reservations - Now Carnival is refusing to accept that credit card.

They said it is part of their “Fraud prevention”... I say it is spite.

Very annoying because that card gives me the most reward value.

I think they are 100% right, they should deny you any passage.

[MrMarc]

3 hours ago, crooooze said:

Thank you to all who have showed me the ways to be a rightful person.  Here’s the invaluable lessons I have learned from this thread:

 

1) When the merchant says they will issue a refund credit in 90 days, I should indefinitely wait patiently for that to occur. My personal weakness is that I gave up after 7 months. Should have waited much longer.

 

2) When the merchant finally says they already issued the credit months ago, which I never received, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for a different outcome.  It was already month 7, so I was very impatient when Carnival said there’s not much more they can do and to see what happens in the next 30-60 days. My bad.

 

3) When the credit card company says they have no record of the merchant issuing a credit, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for the credit to magically appear.  Because everyone knows when you take no action, magical things happen.

 

4) I should never under any circumstances ask the credit card company for a temporary credit while this get worked out, especially if the “dispute a charge” process is the official mechanism to do so. Proceeding with this makes me a very bad impatient person who deserves to be disassociated from Carnival.

 

5) Never post anything surprising or negative about Carnival in this forum.

 

For the record, I do have 2 future Carnival cruises book - on another credit card.
 

But again, thank you to those who help me better myself to finance and support a multi-billion dollar corporation. I won’t let you down again.

 

 

 

 

 

So, apparently you posted this expecting everyone to rush to reply and tell you how right you were and how terrible Carnival was.  You might want to re-examine your expectations by reading a few threads on this board.  But more than that, I think most of us were saying we understood what you did, but pointed out how it may appear very different from the businesses point of view, and that, especially in the case of a very large businesses,  these processes are probably automated.  If you took the same attitude with Carnival, then I also may understand how you got into the situation in the first place.

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, crooooze said:

Thank you to all who have showed me the ways to be a rightful person.  Here’s the invaluable lessons I have learned from this thread:

 

1) When the merchant says they will issue a refund credit in 90 days, I should indefinitely wait patiently for that to occur. My personal weakness is that I gave up after 7 months. Should have waited much longer.

 

2) When the merchant finally says they already issued the credit months ago, which I never received, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for a different outcome.  It was already month 7, so I was very impatient when Carnival said there’s not much more they can do and to see what happens in the next 30-60 days. My bad.

 

3) When the credit card company says they have no record of the merchant issuing a credit, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for the credit to magically appear.  Because everyone knows when you take no action, magical things happen.

 

4) I should never under any circumstances ask the credit card company for a temporary credit while this get worked out, especially if the “dispute a charge” process is the official mechanism to do so. Proceeding with this makes me a very bad impatient person who deserves to be disassociated from Carnival.

 

5) Never post anything surprising or negative about Carnival in this forum.

 

For the record, I do have 2 future Carnival cruises book - on another credit card.
 

But again, thank you to those who help me better myself to finance and support a multi-billion dollar corporation. I won’t let you down again.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't expect the Carnival apologists to show you any sympathy. But I guess you have already seen that.

 

I don't know what I would have done if Princess had treated me that way for our cruise last summer since I received the refund just short of the 90 days. But 7 months is ridiculous.

 

I know at the very beginning of the pandemic we had a play on Broadway with a bus ride to NY booked with a local who did that sort of travel. When all Broadway plays were cancelled I asked for a refund. His reply was it said absolutely no refunds on his website. I replied that can't possibly apply if you can no longer provide the service, and I'm sure you will be refunded for the tickets. He only changed his mind when I said fine if that's the way you are going to be, I will just contact American Express and let them take care of it. He then begged me not to do that and my credit showed up within days.

 

We recently disputed a charge where my (art teacher) wife paid for art supplies and the PTA that was supposed to reimburse her instead also paid the company by check. The customer service rep my DW spoke to agreed she should be reimbursed, but accounting had to do that and there was no way she could communicate with them. When it dragged out with no refund by them, I contacted American Express and let them deal with them. And the credit went to our account. They were very helpful.

[pjhootch]

 

7 hours ago, crooooze said:

Thank you to all who have showed me the ways to be a rightful person.  Here’s the invaluable lessons I have learned from this thread:

 

1) When the merchant says they will issue a refund credit in 90 days, I should indefinitely wait patiently for that to occur. My personal weakness is that I gave up after 7 months. Should have waited much longer.

 

2) When the merchant finally says they already issued the credit months ago, which I never received, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for a different outcome.  It was already month 7, so I was very impatient when Carnival said there’s not much more they can do and to see what happens in the next 30-60 days. My bad.

 

3) When the credit card company says they have no record of the merchant issuing a credit, I should say “ok, thanks” and patiently wait indefinitely for the credit to magically appear.  Because everyone knows when you take no action, magical things happen.

 

4) I should never under any circumstances ask the credit card company for a temporary credit while this get worked out, especially if the “dispute a charge” process is the official mechanism to do so. Proceeding with this makes me a very bad impatient person who deserves to be disassociated from Carnival.

 

5) Never post anything surprising or negative about Carnival in this forum.

 

For the record, I do have 2 future Carnival cruises book - on another credit card.
 

But again, thank you to those who help me better myself to finance and support a multi-billion dollar corporation. I won’t let you down again.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly the opposite.  Many people understand how you felt.  You were not a bad person because you disputed the charge and certainly no one suggested Carnival handled refunds well.   

 

But when you dispute a charge and it results in a chargeback, the business will definitely flag that card. Any business may refuse to do business with you again.  It is not personal, and neither were most of the responses you received in this thread.  Definitely there is no spite involved.  

[K_e_short]

I remember many people on this forum encouraging people to dispute charges. This was in March - June of 2020.

 

Many 'experts' said this was the best way to get your money back.

 

No one mentioned any repercussions.

 

You can't be the only person to have that happen to. If I remember correctly ALOT of people went the route of disputing the charge with their credit card companies.

 

Hopefully others will learn from your experience.

[Shayhooper]

Personally I was glad to hear about this experience and other’s.  Just like many situations that the pandemic has presented us with, there really are no good choices here.  Waiting so long for a credit, especially during a time when so many people were out of work, is not acceptable.  From a business perspective, trying to retain cash so you can not go bankrupt at a time when you can’t generate revenue is essential.  

 

It is a bad situation for everyone.  

[BlerkOne]

41 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

 

No one mentioned any repercussions.

 

 

That's not my recollection.

[crooooze]

Carnival already said the refund was issued - but they would only talk to my TA, not me.

My credit card company said otherwise - but they would only talk to me and not Carnival.

At one time, I was able to get a 4-way conference call with all parties.

 

I requested a temporary credit from the CC while they worked this out with Carnival. I was advised to file a Dispute and provide all the background information. The temporary credit was issued. After the investigation period, the credit became permanent.  In following up afterwards, I found out that Carnival abandoned the follow-up on the initial refund once the charge was reversed. I was told this is normal practice.

 

I understand some of the other scenarios that were explained by others. This refund situation is not the same as disputing a charge because one is unhappy with the service. Carnival already agreed to a refund, so I was surprised that the card would be flagged as fraudulent. But I suppose, as someone mentioned, it was probably automatically done by a computer. 

 

(Incidentally,  learning that the card was blocked by Carnival was not easy either. When my payment was declined, Carnival told me to call my CC. The CC told me they did not decline it and had no record of the transaction. The back and forth went on for 2 days before getting the right person at Carnival to say that the card was blocked.)

Edited August 16, 2021 by crooooze

[Sam Ting]

14 minutes ago, crooooze said:

Carnival already said the refund was issued - but they would only talk to my TA, not me.

My credit card company said otherwise - but they would only talk to me and not Carnival.

At one time, I was able to get a 4-way conference call with all parties.

 

I requested a temporary credit from the CC while they worked this out with Carnival. I was advised to file a Dispute and provide all the background information. The temporary credit was issued. After the investigation period, the credit became permanent.  In following up afterwards, I found out that Carnival abandoned the follow-up on the initial refund once the charge was reversed. I was told this is normal practice.

 

I understand some of the other scenarios that were explained by others. This refund situation is not the same as disputing a charge because one is unhappy with the service. Carnival already agreed to a refund, so I was surprised that the card would be flagged as fraudulent. But I suppose, as someone mentioned, it was probably automatically done by a computer. 

 

(Incidentally,  learning that the card was blocked by Carnival was not easy either. When my payment was declined, Carnival told me to call my CC. The CC told me they did not decline it and had no record of the transaction. The back and forth went on for 2 days before getting the right person at Carnival to say that the card was blocked.)

Just let your spouse book it with their credit card.  If that’s not doable, perhaps consider rccl or msc. They are both better anyway 

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

That's not my recollection.

I agree there were a few who did say beware there may be consequences.

[EngIceDave]

I understand you were put in a bad situation and it was handled poorly. 

 

My earlier comment was basically to highlight that CCL likely has hundreds of disputes at any time for any number of reasons, and then multiply that with covid refunds, the automatic mode kicked in (evidenced by the case abandonment)

 

They argue a bit, put up resistance (who doesn't want to hold onto cash during a crisis?) and eventually relented and then blanket "they could do it again" red flag on the account.

 

When you look at the potential volume people who call and likely demand charge reversals, I'd cut them all off too at the end.

 

Nothing personal, just business.

 

And before you stomp off saying "Never again," there are only a couple players in this space and only one real bargain one, Carnival. There are far too many to deal with each individually. 

 

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Shayhooper said:

Personally I was glad to hear about this experience and other’s.  Just like many situations that the pandemic has presented us with, there really are no good choices here.  Waiting so long for a credit, especially during a time when so many people were out of work, is not acceptable.  From a business perspective, trying to retain cash so you can not go bankrupt at a time when you can’t generate revenue is essential.  

 

It is a bad situation for everyone.  

Trying to retain cash when you can no longer provide the service paid for is just WRONG. You call it essential, but it is just plain WRONG. And then to punish the person wanting you to do the right thing and return their money is again WRONG.

 

And of course it is nothing personal, you can just always blame it on the computer. BTW, who programmed the computer?

[gtalum]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:49 AM, crooooze said:

Not sure if anyone experienced this....

Last year when it was taking forever to get refunds, I went the route of contacting my credit card to dispute the charge.

Everything worked out and I ended up getting my refund.

 

Fast forward a year, and I’m booking new reservations - Now Carnival is refusing to accept that credit card.

They said it is part of their “Fraud prevention”... I say it is spite.

Very annoying because that card gives me the most reward value.

 

This is pretty standard.  In fact, many companies will just completely blacklist you for that.

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Trying to retain cash when you can no longer provide the service paid for is just WRONG. You call it essential, but it is just plain WRONG. And then to punish the person wanting you to do the right thing and return their money is again WRONG.

 

And of course it is nothing personal, you can just always blame it on the computer. BTW, who programmed the computer?

I don't think that Carnival (or any other cruise line for that matter) tried to hold on to any money longer than necessary. A number of factors led to refunds taking longer than normal to process- hundreds of thousands of refunds having to be processed manually by staff who had to suddenly perform the work from home (and potentially also with reduced staff). This wasn't a Carnival only issue, this affected them all.