Did you hear John Heald say you need medical documentation and a Dr Note if treated for covid-like illness that's not covid?

[nocl]

3 hours ago, sanger727 said:

What?? Yes, of course. Not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand…

 

If you get sick with Covid like symptoms and then test negative; if you doctor has to write a note to carnival it’s going to say that you tested negative and it’s not Covid. Because they don’t have any information to the contrary. Covid looks very much like a cold for most people. So doctor is just going to parrot the negative test you show carnival. If you have a negative test to show them, what’s the value of your doctor saying the same thing?

However, a Doctor, before writing such a note, would also examine, look at the symptoms, and mostly likely do their own test.

 

What the requirement is trying to address is someone having COVID like symptoms within two weeks before the cruise, never getting tested, never getting treated and hoping that their test immediately before the cruise is negative.

 

Unfortunately those same people are also just likely to lie on the health questionnaire as well.

 

The notification probably will be most useful in giving passengers notice that if they have symptoms prior to their cruise they better get it checked out.

[K_e_short]

Well there goes this thread with more incorrect information abou Covid 😞

 

I will repeat. This announcement was non covid related.

 

 

[AtSeaWithChris]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

According to several different studies with the earlier variants there is a high number of false negatives even with a PCR test.  A John Hopkins study found that even with symptomatic illness the rate of false negatives went from 80% pre-symptoms, down to 20% on day 4 after symptoms, then climbing again.  There is clear medical documentation on people in ICU that repeatedly tested negative to nose swabs, only to test positive to a deep lung sample.

 

Have not  seen any recent studies to see if this holds up to the same level with Delta and its higher viral load levels.

 

Tests are a good screening mechanism that will catch a number of cases, but it will not catch them all.  It is possible that somebody, even while infected, will test negative. At least 20% accoding to the John Hopkins study.

There are also a lot of false positives that add to the count and when backed up by a negative pcr test they do not remove the false positive. So that count only rises. 

[BlerkOne]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58346126

[nocl]

6 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

There are also a lot of false positives that add to the count and when backed up by a negative pcr test they do not remove the false positive. So that count only rises. 

There were a fairly consistent issue with false positives, with early antigen tests that were not as specific as they needed to be.  Have not seen any reports on the current versions.  PCR usually will not generate a false positive, unless there is a lab error.

 

That is why in Europe MSC did an antigen test at the pier (fast and low cost) and then restested any antigen positives with a PCR to confirm.

[AtSeaWithChris]

6 minutes ago, nocl said:

There were a fairly consistent issue with false positives, with early antigen tests that were not as specific as they needed to be.  Have not seen any reports on the current versions.  PCR usually will not generate a false positive, unless there is a lab error.

 

That is why in Europe MSC did an antigen test at the pier (fast and low cost) and then restested any antigen positives with a PCR to confirm.

That was my last 2 experiences. I had my pre surgery covid test and they gave me a rapid then a PCR. Which I got the results in 21 hours. 

[BoozinCroozin]

That is crossing the HIPAA line there. The only way they know if you had any illness is if you mark Yes on the thing. If you mark it, be prepared to discuss and have proof for it. However, they have no legal need to know your illness leading up to a cruise. They already have the covid test results. That is all they need. 

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Repeatedly inconclusive or invalid viral test results are those unable to register a positive or negative reading for COVID-19.

 

If you need more information, ask your healthcare provider.
 

I was not questioning that there are inconclusive tests. I was just noting that adding inconclusive to false results makes one question why one should rely on tests and why tests should be required.

 

 

[sanger727]

9 hours ago, nocl said:

What the requirement is trying to address is someone having COVID like symptoms within two weeks before the cruise, never getting tested, never getting treated and hoping that their test immediately before the cruise is negative.

 

Unfortunately those same people are also just likely to lie on the health questionnaire as well.

 

 

Yes, exactly. 

 

As far as doctor's requiring their own tests, not so sure about that one.

 

I got sick with covid like symptoms in June. Took a covid test and it was negative. A week later I was still sick so I saw my doctor. Told her my symptoms and she said "that sounds like covid". Then she asked if I was vaccinated? Yes and about my covid test which was negative. After that she decided I had only a cold. 

 

This may be a CYA only thing; but I just can't see someone going to a doctor for a diagnosis within 2 weeks of their trip; also getting a negative test; and also telling carnival about their illness. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

14 hours ago, cruiseracer said:

LOL! Do you have any idea what all would be included in "covid-like" illness?  Allergies, hangover, food poisoning, insomnia, lethargy, depression, fatigue, body aches, hunger, migraine, pulled muscle(s), over-exertion, stress... Please - stop the madness!  

As I said before:

 

John Heald said (and I quote exactly) "non-COVID illness", like a severe cold or the flu or some other crud.  He never said "COVID-like".

 

This is not necessarily about an illness that resembles COVID, symptomatically, but about being sick enough in general to need to see a doctor about it.

[ProgRockCruiser]

2 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

That is crossing the HIPAA line there.

No, it is not.  The ticket contract states you will answer health questionnaires and provide similar info as required truthfully.  So they can ask, and if you lie, you are breaking the contract.

 

2 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

However, they have no legal need to know your illness leading up to a cruise.

Yes, they do - to ensure the health and safety of the other passengers and crew, as well as ensuring your health is not put at risk.  Just because COVID has made this a very obvious issue, there has always been a need to ensure potentially pax are not putting other people at risk.  It just wasn't policed so obviously, probably because it wasn't in the media spotlight.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

No, it is not.  The ticket contract states you will answer health questionnaires and provide similar info as required truthfully.  So they can ask, and if you lie, you are breaking the contract.

 

Yes, they do - to ensure the health and safety of the other passengers and crew, as well as ensuring your health is not put at risk.  Just because COVID has made this a very obvious issue, there has always been a need to ensure potentially pax are not putting other people at risk.  It just wasn't policed so obviously, probably because it wasn't in the media spotlight.

What you wrote is so obvious that you wonder why anyone would doubt the validity of it.

 

HIPAA would only apply to a ship when they are providing medical care. And they obviously have both a need and a duty to protect the health of their customers.

[K_e_short]

[BlerkOne]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I was not questioning that there are inconclusive tests. I was just noting that adding inconclusive to false results makes one question why one should rely on tests and why tests should be required.

 

 

To reduce the spread of covid.

[AtSeaWithChris]

3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

To reduce the spread of covid.

like using a water gun to put out a house fire.

[Bases5]

Does anyone have a copy or picture of the medical questionnaire that CARNIVAL is using currently.  
 I can’t access mine at this time. 
Im interested what all is asked. 

[AtSeaWithChris]

17 minutes ago, Bases5 said:

Does anyone have a copy or picture of the medical questionnaire that CARNIVAL is using currently.  
 I can’t access mine at this time. 
Im interested what all is asked. 

Someone posted it in a thread here but I don’t remember who or what thread.