Oceania Marketing Vista as a Different Ship Class

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 minute ago, ORV said:

Maybe for a port stop, but we'll see. I'm having trouble remembering a whole lot of embarkations and disembarkations from SF. I did disembark from Regatta there from an Alaskan cruise. Our prebooked driver took forever to pick us up, would have been much better off getting in the cab line. 

O usually does its Panama Canal trips to/from L.A. or S.F.. IMO, there’s nothing quite like cruising out of the Golden Gate (particularly at sunset). In addition, over the past few years, O has been testing the waters of short one week California Coastal cruises from L.A., which can be extended both north to Canada and south to the Mexican Riviera. We’ve done one and it was a great quick getaway. 

[ORV]

There are quite a few retired 50 somethings. I retired at 53. My neighbor is in his early 50's and works for a major accounting firm, he gets 30 day or longer vacations. 

 

Oceania is a US centric cruise line. When you go to repeater parties they usually tell you what percentage of the repeaters are from where. No matter where we've been it's usually always USA, CA, and usually UK 3rd, and then it varies from there. My point is the whole cruise line already is designed to appeal to the US market. Getting the younger demographic is essential to all cruise lines, for a number of reasons new blood is always required. 

 

And yes, Oceania is having quite a few shorter itineraries, which I'm not a fan of at all. Obviously they are trying to appeal to that demographic. 

 

For a number of reasons though I don't see "home port" in the future for SF, maybe for a few short periods, but nothing long term. 

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

15 minutes ago, Robjame said:

If you agree that Vista is designed to appeal to the US market, 50 somethings, rather than the retired, "older"folks then:

don't these folks take shorter, closer to home cruises? 

It’s not just Vista that has to appeal to those who will replace us geezers. East Coasters and Europeans have the Caribbean for the short hops. West Coasters and other Pacific folks need more “local options” (which is why O has been experimenting with the California Coastal Cruises and increased use of Mexican Riviera ports.

[LGW59]

55 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

It’s not just Vista that has to appeal to those who will replace us geezers. East Coasters and Europeans have the Caribbean for the short hops. West Coasters and other Pacific folks need more “local options” (which is why O has been experimenting with the California Coastal Cruises and increased use of Mexican Riviera ports.

Mexican Riviera cruise out of San Diego is one of the best I’ve ever taken.

[Jancruz]

5 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The plans to build the two Allura class ships was/is based on O’s constantly growing “regular” and new customer base. Many O itineraries book full within days to weeks of announcement. Vista will help to satisfy that demand.

It is my understanding that the average of repeat customers on most O itineraries exceeds 70%. Unlike many mainstream lines, Oceania cruises are not “one and done.” And the missteps of some of those “premium wannabes” (in particular Celebrity whose prices have skyrocketed), will keep the flow of O newbies constant. And let’s not forget RCCL’s major goof in dumping Azamara. We shall see how Sycamore Partners maritime inexperience pans out. In fact, with O’s ever-increasing customer base, don’t be surprised if, after the two Allura Class ships are in service, O starts eyeing the bargain acquisition of at least one more R ship.

 

 

Flatbush Flyer while FDR is at the helm that will not happen..

Jancruz1

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

Flatbush Flyer while FDR is at the helm that will not happen..

Jancruz1

I trust that you agree that O will grow in the years to come(?). But, beyond the 2 Allura Class ships, what do you see as the O fleet ten years from now.

I’d hate to see the R ships disappear and I’m convinced I’m not the only O regular who feels that way.

Related to this, do you think O would ever build (or acquire) an “expedition” ship?

[Jancruz]

18 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I trust that you agree that O will grow in the years to come(?). But, beyond the 2 Allura Class ships, what do you see as the O fleet ten years from now.

I’d hate to see the R ships disappear and I’m convinced I’m not the only O regular who feels that way.

Related to this, do you think O would ever build (or acquire) an “expedition” ship?

We really never talked about it but I will ask...

Jancruz1

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, susiesan said:

Robjame: I compared almost identical 10 night Med itineraries that include the Canary Islands. I am currently booked on Riviera for April 4, 2022 in an outside at $290 pp. a day. Vista April 26, 2023 in a french veranda prices at $420 a day pp. Not worth 30%, $130 a day, more for the new ship for the same cabin doing the same itinerary.

 

Those of us who use insides and outsides on Oceania for the affordability will never sail on Vista.

 

Interesting. I compared couple itineraries in May 2023 and the difference was only around 10% for veranda cabins. But I just checked and difference between OV on Riviera/Marina and french veranda on Vista is indeed bigger. Typical OV is around $310-320 and french veranda $380-390. Still over 20%, so you are right, those who don't care about veranda, Vista is not really worth the extra money. 

[ak1004]

54 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I trust that you agree that O will grow in the years to come(?). But, beyond the 2 Allura Class ships, what do you see as the O fleet ten years from now.

I’d hate to see the R ships disappear and I’m convinced I’m not the only O regular who feels that way.

Related to this, do you think O would ever build (or acquire) an “expedition” ship?

 

I read that many people like the R ships. We took one cruise on Azamara, and while we liked it overall, in my opinion the ship experience cannot compare to Riviera/Marina. Smaller ship, no actual theater, tiny cabins, and the ship while still in a decent shape, starts to show it age.

 

I'm curious what people like in R ships?

[susiesan]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

I read that many people like the R ships. We took one cruise on Azamara, and while we liked it overall, in my opinion the ship experience cannot compare to Riviera/Marina. Smaller ship, no actual theater, tiny cabins, and the ship while still in a decent shape, starts to show it age.

 

I'm curious what people like in R ships?

Less passengers. For me, the smaller the ship the better.

[Robjame]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

'm curious what people like in R ships?

Does the same price differential that is between between Allura and Oceania ships; exist between Oceania and R ships?

[sunlover12]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

I read that many people like the R ships. We took one cruise on Azamara, and while we liked it overall, in my opinion the ship experience cannot compare to Riviera/Marina. Smaller ship, no actual theater, tiny cabins, and the ship while still in a decent shape, starts to show it age.

 

I'm curious what people like in R ships?

I've been on both R and O ships and they each have advantages and disadvantages.  The R ships may have better access to more ports.  As I said in my post above, starting in 2022 French Polynesia is favoring ships with a maximum of 700 passengers.  In some other ports, the smaller ship may be able to dock closer to the city.

 

We tend to choose a cruise based on ports, not the ship.  

[ak1004]

10 minutes ago, Robjame said:

Does the same price differential that is between between Allura and Oceania ships; exist between Oceania and R ships?

 

I checked veranda prices on few random European sailings, and it seems that the difference is very small, less than 10%. It's surprising considering that the cabins on the O ships are significantly larger. But I guess it reflects the fact that many people like smaller ships.

  

1 minute ago, sunlover12 said:

I've been on both R and O ships and they each have advantages and disadvantages.  The R ships may have better access to more ports.  As I said in my post above, starting in 2022 French Polynesia is favoring ships with a maximum of 700 passengers.  In some other ports, the smaller ship may be able to dock closer to the city.

 

We tend to choose a cruise based on ports, not the ship.  

 

Makes sense. I would still select the O class all other factors equal, but if I had a better itinerary on a R class ship, I would not hesitate to take it.

[pinotlover]

21 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

Interesting. I compared couple itineraries in May 2023 and the difference was only around 10% for veranda cabins. But I just checked and difference between OV on Riviera/Marina and french veranda on Vista is indeed bigger. Typical OV is around $310-320 and french veranda $380-390. Still over 20%, so you are right, those who don't care about veranda, Vista is not really worth the extra money. 

Anyone watching the current economic news will tell you that comparing cruise prices for a 2022 cruise priced 18 months ago, versus a 2023 cruise, recently priced, is comparing apples to oranges. Fuel Oil, food, and labor prices are increasing dramatically for those of you that obviously haven’t noticed. Oceania can hedge some of that out into 2022, but not 2023. Those price differentials you’re seeing are inflation hedges based upon the expectations of inflation. In 2023, if prices subside and Oceania needs to sell cabins,  they’ll have the flexibility to drop prices. However, if inflation starts swirling upward, those currently posted prices may look like a bargain in 18 months.

[susiesan]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

. In 2023, if prices subside and Oceania needs to sell cabins,  they’ll have the flexibility to drop prices. However, if inflation starts swirling upward, those currently posted prices may look like a bargain in 18 months.

When has Oceania ever dropped prices? I have been sailing with them since 2006 and have never seen sales or discounts. Even now with most cruises over the next 6 months lightly sold except for the upper priced suites the prices are staying the same as when originally announced. I have been monitoring constantly.

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, susiesan said:

When has Oceania ever dropped prices? I have been sailing with them since 2006 and have never seen sales or discounts. Even now with most cruises over the next 6 months lightly sold except for the upper priced suites the prices are staying the same as when originally announced. I have been monitoring constantly.

Though rare, I have seen occasional price drops on a booked cabin and have had the price adjusted.

One caveat though: Since one would be booking at a new rate, it would be subject to the current perks et al. For that booking. Doing the math of the proposed change is very important.

[Hlitner]

Higher prices do matter in terms of marketing.   We avoided booking "O" for many years because we did not thing the "R" ships were a good value (we knew the ships from R days).  We finally did book the Marina.....but only when we found a cruise that fit our schedule that was reasonably priced.  Lately we have been cruising primarily Seabourn because we found some decent deals that made SB a much better value that anything comparable on the mass market lines.  Even if we become big time "O" fans we will still compare the value of future "O" cruises with their competition.  Unlike some, we are not loyal to any cruise line ("O" will be our 17th cruise line).   To be honest, a ship being new does not by itself hold any attraction to us.  We still book for itinerary, value, and quality.  Some of our favorite ships (we have been on more then 65 different vessels) have been quite old such as the recently retired Prinsendam (HAL).  In the case of Celebrity we really love the design of their Solstice Class and have not had any desire to book the newer Edge Class (which are often priced higher then the older ships).  As to O, we think the cabin/bathroom sizes on the old Renaissance ships do not usually justify the higher per day costs charged by "O" vs some of its competition.  Consider when we go on Seabourn where a normal suite (all the cabins are suites) has a large bathroom with double vanities, a shower and also a separate bathtub.  And unlike "O" SB is truly an all-inclusive line (does not include tours).

 

Hank

 

[avalong]

49 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Higher prices do matter in terms of marketing.   We avoided booking "O" for many years because we did not thing the "R" ships were a good value (we knew the ships from R days).  We finally did book the Marina.....but only when we found a cruise that fit our schedule that was reasonably priced.  Lately we have been cruising primarily Seabourn because we found some decent deals that made SB a much better value that anything comparable on the mass market lines.  Even if we become big time "O" fans we will still compare the value of future "O" cruises with their competition.  Unlike some, we are not loyal to any cruise line ("O" will be our 17th cruise line).   To be honest, a ship being new does not by itself hold any attraction to us.  We still book for itinerary, value, and quality.  Some of our favorite ships (we have been on more then 65 different vessels) have been quite old such as the recently retired Prinsendam (HAL).  In the case of Celebrity we really love the design of their Solstice Class and have not had any desire to book the newer Edge Class (which are often priced higher then the older ships).  As to O, we think the cabin/bathroom sizes on the old Renaissance ships do not usually justify the higher per day costs charged by "O" vs some of its competition.  Consider when we go on Seabourn where a normal suite (all the cabins are suites) has a large bathroom with double vanities, a shower and also a separate bathtub.  And unlike "O" SB is truly an all-inclusive line (does not include tours).

 

Hank

 

I seem to recall that when I looked at the deck plans for Seabourn's vessels all the cabins were mid-ship and forward. There were no mid-aft cabins at all.  This was kind of a deal breaker for me as that's where I like to be.

[LuAnn]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:17 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Perhaps you’ve forgotten the past travels of Marina which often found it doing Pacific runs South to Pacific South America and West to Polynesia. 
Even common sense suggests that focusing all of the soon-to-be-three larger ships in one hemisphere makes zero sense- particularly with the growth of the cruising population in Eastern Asia and Oceania (NZ/OZ) and the increase of Pacific ports.

FWIW, Regatta already might be considered a primarily Pacific ship. Adding an O Class partner would allow for significant port and cabin availability.

Let’s revisit this in the second year after Vista starts cruising. I’m convinced we’ll look out our SF Bay windows and see Marina parked on the Embarcadero.

Any chance you think I could look out of my San Diego windows and see her instead? 🙂

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, LuAnn said:

Any chance you think I could look out of my San Diego windows and see her instead? 🙂

 

We are big San Diego fans but.......

[pinotlover]

Something has to give. The Marina pulled out of the S. Pacific ( Australia, N. Z., French Polynesia) because it couldn’t fill its ships, particularly on the intermediary cruises. In 2019, we were on a Marina 12 day F.P. Cruise with less than 800 aboard. Fabulous cruise, but most likely not a money maker for Oceania. We were in the sold out Marina for a Feb 2015 Sidney-Auckland cruise. We were told the Auckland-Papeete cruise was near empty. Now, only R ships go that route.

 

I know R ship lovers, and Oceania passengers that won’t sail them. The Alura Class is going to have to long term develop its itinerary and following. Oceania doesn’t need another winter Carribean cruiser. Something has to be developed in the median term.

[Flatbush Flyer]

14 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Something has to give. The Marina pulled out of the S. Pacific ( Australia, N. Z., French Polynesia) because it couldn’t fill its ships, particularly on the intermediary cruises. In 2019, we were on a Marina 12 day F.P. Cruise with less than 800 aboard. Fabulous cruise, but most likely not a money maker for Oceania. We were in the sold out Marina for a Feb 2015 Sidney-Auckland cruise. We were told the Auckland-Papeete cruise was near empty. Now, only R ships go that route.

 

I know R ship lovers, and Oceania passengers that won’t sail them. The Alura Class is going to have to long term develop its itinerary and following. Oceania doesn’t need another winter Carribean cruiser. Something has to be developed in the median term.

As I have predicted Marina will go back to the Pacific with many new island and Pacific South America ports (probably to be vetted on the upcoming ATW as OZ/NZ replacements). In fact, I could see Marina doing a  Pacific/Indian/Southern Ocean half-ATW.

[Mura]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:27 PM, Robjame said:

If you agree that Vista is designed to appeal to the US market, 50 somethings, rather than the retired, "older"folks then:

don't these folks take shorter, closer to home cruises? 

Speaking for myself, NO!  And I just had a birthday putting me on the higher end of the "older folks".

 

That being said (I was waiting until I hit the end of this thread to comment) we are are wait listed on a Vista TA cruise Southampton-NYC departing August 30, 2023 (I think that's the date).  I personally had NOT been interested in Vista because I felt it's "too glitzxy" for me from the photos and videos  I have seen.  If I were in my 50s, maybe I would have felt differently. (But truthfully, I don't think so,)

 

When I finally saw the Vista itinerary (after it was sold out with LONNNNGGG wait lists), I signed up.  I doubt we'll make the cut but if we do I am sure it will be a great cruise.

 

However, in general -- if we are talking about higher prices for the two new ships as compared to the older ships -- for a same or similar itinerary, I'm sure we'd opt for cheaper!  We have still sailed on the "R" ships after all ... (And maybe that price limit is because we tend to book suites.)

 

Having said that, a few years ago we took a downsell offer (which paid for our next cruise in a VS) from our suite on an "R" ship where we were sent to a B1 on Nautica.  I'd always remembered problems with the bathrooms in the veranda cabins, but this time we weren't bothered at all.  Maybe it was because the refund paid for that next cruise?  BUT, I don't think so!

 

Mura

 

[Mura]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:41 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

O usually does its Panama Canal trips to/from L.A. or S.F.. IMO, there’s nothing quite like cruising out of the Golden Gate (particularly at sunset). In addition, over the past few years, O has been testing the waters of short one week California Coastal cruises from L.A., which can be extended both north to Canada and south to the Mexican Riviera. We’ve done one and it was a great quick getaway. 

If I were still living in California I'd love to sail out of SF  ... but our first R1 (now Regatta) had a wonderful sail out of Lisbon ... There are plenty of ports where it's delightful to see the sunset ..

 

 

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, avalong said:

I seem to recall that when I looked at the deck plans for Seabourn's vessels all the cabins were mid-ship and forward. There were no mid-aft cabins at all.  This was kind of a deal breaker for me as that's where I like to be.

That is pretty accurate for both Seaborn and Silverseas (we cannot speak to other luxury lines).  We have no problems with that arrangement but do understand that some folks have issues.  We used to point out that the Captain and most senior officers of ships all have their cabins towards the bow.  But I do understand that some are not happy with anything but amid ship cabins and we do wish them well.  On the other hand have you ever been on an airplane with first class or business anywhere but towards to the front?

 

 

Hank