Why Can't Health Unit Tests Count

[K_e_short]

My question comes from a radio interview I listened to on the way home from work.

It was discussing cheap/free ways to get a Covid test (Antigen or PCR) in the states.

 

Someone on here said that the tests done at health unit clinics can't be used because the information needed is missing.

 

Could that person clarify please?

 

I"m thinking aloud and wondering what stops Canadians from using a PCR test taking for free at a health clinic as proof of a Covid test to enter the U.S.? (yes I know you only need an antigen test but PCR is also acceptable to enter the U.S.)

 

I'm also wondering what stops us from using that same test if we are driving across the border for less then 72 hours?

 

Perhaps I should have posted this in the ArriveCan app thread but since you don't have to load your test results whats the issue?

 

[mom says]

49 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

I"m thinking aloud and wondering what stops Canadians from using a PCR test taking for free at a health clinic as proof of a Covid test to enter the U.S.?

Disregarding for a moment the lack of specific information in the results given by health units, the first thing preventing Canadians from doing this is that regular clinics WILL NOT do free testing for travel purposes. You would have to lie your face off to get the test. 

 

The specific information needed for travel tests was mentioned on a thread quite a while back, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

[Fouremco]

10 hours ago, mom says said:

Disregarding for a moment the lack of specific information in the results given by health units, the first thing preventing Canadians from doing this is that regular clinics WILL NOT do free testing for travel purposes. You would have to lie your face off to get the test. 

 

The specific information needed for travel tests was mentioned on a thread quite a while back, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

I agree, public clinics will not provide tests for travel purposes. Nor should they IMO.

 

The test requirements are listed on the CDC website:

 

What information must be included on the test result?

A test result must be in the form of written documentation (paper or electronic copy). The documentation must include:

1. Type of test (indicating it is a NAAT or antigen test) 
2. Entity issuing the result (e.g. laboratory, healthcare entity, or telehealth service)
3. Specimen collection date. A negative test result must show the specimen was collected within the 3 days before the flight. A positive test result for documentation of recovery from COVID-19 must show the specimen was collected within the 3 months before the flight.
4. Information that identifies the person (full name plus at least one other identifier such as date of birth or passport number)
5. Test Result

I was tested back in July due to contact with a person with a suspected case of COVID. Both of us tested negative, but the information provided in the results, accessible online, meets the CDC requirements.

 

 

 

 

[Barwick Cruiser]

It is helpful that if you are planning to be in the US for less than 72 hours you can use the PCR test that you get in Canada to return home…saving the cost and hassle of getting another test across the border. No need to get two tests. 

[K_e_short]

I am not suggesting that I would do that.

 

Im just worried that now that there are companies out there, travel companies advertising how you can get a free test in the states, there will be questions about free testing in Canada.

 

[Fouremco]

26 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

I am not suggesting that I would do that.

 

Im just worried that now that there are companies out there, travel companies advertising how you can get a free test in the states, there will be questions about free testing in Canada.

 

As is the case for so many things, how the US and Canada handle testing is very different. I agree that some might ask why there are differences, but that just leads to a much broader discussion on all medical services provided in the US vs those provided in Canada, and more importantly, the comparative cost to the patient. Thanks, but I'll gladly pay my few dollars to SDM or Costco for a travel test when I can go for open heart surgery and not have to pay a penny. I think that the medical community has got it right with testing, free for legitimate medical reasons and user pay for leisure.

[gnome12]

6 hours ago, Barwick Cruiser said:

It is helpful that if you are planning to be in the US for less than 72 hours you can use the PCR test that you get in Canada to return home…saving the cost and hassle of getting another test across the border. No need to get two tests. 

It seems stupid that a test you take in Canada before you go the the US should be acceptable to return home. If you picked up covid while away (not likely in less than 72 hours) it couldn't possibly be picked up.

[DirtyDawg]

5 hours ago, Fouremco said:

As is the case for so many things, how the US and Canada handle testing is very different. I agree that some might ask why there are differences, but that just leads to a much broader discussion on all medical services provided in the US vs those provided in Canada, and more importantly, the comparative cost to the patient. Thanks, but I'll gladly pay my few dollars to SDM or Costco for a travel test when I can go for open heart surgery and not have to pay a penny. I think that the medical community has got it right with testing, free for legitimate medical reasons and user pay for leisure.

Look at your tax bill for the past 30 years. You have already paid more than a few pennies for that open heart surgery. 💲 (Assuming you have been paying your taxes of course. 😉)

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[Fouremco]

7 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Look at your tax bill for the past 30 years. You have paid more than a few pennies for that open heart surgery. 💲 (Assuming you have been paying your taxes of course. 😉)

Yeh, yeh, I knew someone would drag that into the conversation, but even taking into account our annual contribution, it is still far less costly for Canadians. And the poor unfortunate out of work and paying no taxes still gets that free open heart surgery.

[DirtyDawg]

2 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Yeh, yeh, I knew someone would drag that into the conversation, but even taking into account our annual contribution, it is still far less costly for Canadians. And the poor unfortunate out of work and paying no taxes still gets that free open heart surgery.

Also the working, paying no taxes folks. 😉

[lots-of-km2]

21 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

It seems stupid that a test you take in Canada before you go the the US should be acceptable to return home. If you picked up covid while away (not likely in less than 72 hours) it couldn't possibly be picked up.

 

Agreed. The current testing policy could result in this exact situation. Needs rethinking and refinement.  

 

Testing is important and should not be eliminated at this point, not even for day trippers, but are PCR tests the only way to go?   Hopefully there are other alternatives: quick and cheap antigen tests and sniffer dogs. (The working dogs have got a better track record than many antigen testing products.)

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-sniffer-dogs-1.6139254

 

 

 

 

[Fouremco]

7 hours ago, Barwick Cruiser said:

It is helpful that if you are planning to be in the US for less than 72 hours you can use the PCR test that you get in Canada to return home…saving the cost and hassle of getting another test across the border. No need to get two tests. 

 

49 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

It seems stupid that a test you take in Canada before you go the the US should be acceptable to return home. If you picked up covid while away (not likely in less than 72 hours) it couldn't possibly be picked up.

 

If you are tested when you first arrive in the US and contract it during the remainder of your 72 hour visit, it couldn't possibly be picked up.

 

If you are tested aboard a Celebrity ship and contract the virus between then and the arrival  of your flight in Canada, it couldn't possibly be picked up.

 

The reality is, the only guaranteed way of ensuring that someone isn't infected is to test them at the port of entry and hold them until the results are in. What a horrific mess that would be! 

 

[K_e_short]

29 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

 

 

If you are tested when you first arrive in the US and contract it during the remainder of your 72 hour visit, it couldn't possibly be picked up.

 

If you are tested aboard a Celebrity ship and contract the virus between then and the arrival  of your flight in Canada, it couldn't possibly be picked up.

 

The reality is, the only guaranteed way of ensuring that someone isn't infected is to test them at the port of entry and hold them until the results are in. What a horrific mess that would be! 

 

 

I'm not sure if all health units have the same "rules" but the Ottawa PHU says:

 

"If you have symptoms: you should get tested immediately. If you do not have symptoms: you should get tested at least 7 days after your last exposure to the person who tested positive for COVID-19; if you were tested before day 7 and the test result was negative, a repeat test is recommended."

 

So assuming you were in contact with someone on your cruise who is positive and you don't have symptoms a test right away wouldn't be helpful.

[gnome12]

Maybe you want to differentiate; less than 1 week away, a rapid antigen test only. More than that, a PCR test. BUT, if you think the rules are complicated now, that would be a nightmare.

[gnome12]

I think that we are confusing two different things here.

 

Requiring a PCR test for someone who has only been in the US for 1 to 3 days, and allowing that test to be done before leaving Canada is stupid.

 

Someone returning from a cruise obviously isn't getting their PCR test in Canada before they leave and using that SAME test to return.

[K_e_short]

4 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

I think that we are confusing two different things here.

 

Requiring a PCR test for someone who has only been in the US for 1 to 3 days, and allowing that test to be done before leaving Canada is stupid.

 

Someone returning from a cruise obviously isn't getting their PCR test in Canada before they leave and using that SAME test to return.

 

What I am saying is that if you are exposed to someone with Covid and have no symptoms you shouldn't test until 7 days after exposure.

Therefore any test prior to 7 days won't be accurate according to my health unit.

Even if you tested in the U.S., right before crossing over it wouldn't be accurate.

 

I'm just trying to point out that testing for travelling is not in line with testing in other social situations.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by K_e_short

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

I think that we are confusing two different things here.

 

Requiring a PCR test for someone who has only been in the US for 1 to 3 days, and allowing that test to be done before leaving Canada is stupid.

 

Someone returning from a cruise obviously isn't getting their PCR test in Canada before they leave and using that SAME test to return.

No, no confusion. You state that a person could pick up the virus in the US after a test in Canada and it wouldn't show. I agree, but I'm pointing out that the same thing would apply even if the test was taken in the US, whether during a 72 hour visit or at the end of a cruise.

[Fouremco]

18 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

 

I'm not sure if all health units have the same "rules" but the Ottawa PHU says:

 

"If you have symptoms: you should get tested immediately. If you do not have symptoms: you should get tested at least 7 days after your last exposure to the person who tested positive for COVID-19; if you were tested before day 7 and the test result was negative, a repeat test is recommended."

 

So assuming you were in contact with someone on your cruise who is positive and you don't have symptoms a test right away wouldn't be helpful.

I agree, there will always be that lag between exposure and a positive test should that exposure lead to you contracting the virus. When I said that "the only guaranteed way of ensuring that someone isn't infected is to test them at the port of entry and hold them until the results are in", I meant some who would be sufficiently advanced so as to test positive.

 

For example, you are exposed to the virus a week before you fly home. At the point where you are tested on the ship, you test negative as the virus hasn't incubated sufficiently to be detected. But when you arrive in Canada, up to 3 days later, a test at the border would probably pick it up.

 

The bottom line is that the system isn't perfect, which is why there are different levels of protection. The test protocols we are discussing, for example, apply to fully vaccinated people whose possibility of infection is already reduced significantly. There is no "perfect" time to test, because the time of the potential exposure to the virus is generally unknown.