Adjusting prepaid gratuities

[RWolver672]

4 hours ago, DAllenTCY said:

Getting back to the original post.......my question is "Why pre-pay?".

 

What advantage is that to you? 

David

 

 

 

For us, we figure it's part of the cost of the cruise so we just add it on.  Then it's one less thing to go on the onboard account.  We would never think of reducing the amount no matter how bad the service was though.  Report it, yes.  Reduce it, no.

[Computer Nerd]

5 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Because instead of get $1.50  for cleaning twice, they pocket $3 for once? 

While your numbers are incorrect (surprise, surprise), your analogy is correct. They were offered a job, they accepted. If they think the job is beneath them or the pay they receive is not good enough, they are free to leave. Pay for them has already increased over time as gratuities have increased. There is no need for another 100% pay increase (half the work for the same amount of money).

[Computer Nerd]

5 hours ago, DAllenTCY said:

Getting back to the original post.......my question is "Why pre-pay?".

 

What advantage is that to you?

 

You claim that you do it, yet wonder how you can change it?

 

Do you expect better service with pre-pay than you would get with out?

 

I don't get your point, maybe others do.

 

 

David

 

 

IMO there is no valid reason to pre-pay other than the possible peace of mind it may give the person knowing they can walk off the ship without paying anything. But by pre-paying the cruiser loses control of that money for the amount of time they pre-paid and interest earned on that money.

[Computer Nerd]

4 hours ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

 

While mandatory aren't they charged daily once onboard the ship?

Actually they are not charged until the second to last day of the cruise. 

[Computer Nerd]

1 hour ago, SNJCruisers said:

You do have options, either choose another vacationing methodology that has the service you desire or choose another cruise line further up the scale that also meets your expectations.  It's obvious that Carnival no longer reaches the bar that you were accustomed to so just pivot and spend your vacation dollars elsewhere.  Complaining about only getting once a day service on Carnival isn't going to change things, unless of course your name is Marty McFly and you can go back in time.

Another option is to pay for what you receive. That being said, I am moving more towards Royal and Princess myself though I will still sail Carnival once in awhile for a Guy's burger.

 

As for complaining, I'm done with that and therefore simply pay for what I receive. Not a penny more, not a penny less.

[Computer Nerd]

32 minutes ago, RWolver672 said:

 

For us, we figure it's part of the cost of the cruise so we just add it on.  Then it's one less thing to go on the onboard account.  We would never think of reducing the amount no matter how bad the service was though.  Report it, yes.  Reduce it, no.

If you believe like some here that GS just lies through their teeth on a daily basis, why report it?

[RWolver672]

7 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

If you believe like some here that GS just lies through their teeth on a daily basis, why report it?

 

I don't believe everything I see on here.  I report it because I'm not one to look the other way, then come on here and complain about it.  If I have a problem, I try to fix it myself by reporting it.  If nothing gets done, at least I can say I've tried.

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, ray98 said:

 

They are correct though no matter what guilt trip is used to discredit them, the service has been cut in half.  I thoroughly enjoyed twice daily service over the past 20 years, it is one of the things that made the cruise experience unique.  If the dining staff suddenly decided to no longer serve drinks I would probably also question what level of service they were now providing.

We have asked for, and received, twice a day service since Carnival made the change. 

[firefly333]

If you think you even MIGHT want to adjust tips, why would you complicate matters and prepay them. Makes no sense to me. If I even thought I might want to adjust them, I'd wait to pay them onboard.

 

Seems like a question easy to resolve.

 

 

[Guest BasicSailor]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

We have asked for, and received, twice a day service since Carnival made the change. 

What ships ?  

[sanger727]

On 11/4/2021 at 5:20 AM, Computer Nerd said:

Sometimes the problem isn't the person per say but with modifications to Carnival's policy. Such as now only cleaning the cabin once per day instead of twice but still charging the full gratuities as if they were cleaning it twice a day.

 

Ok. This is actually not ok. You can't actually think the room stewards are now getting half the work and double the free time. Clearly their hours are still filled with work. Would you be ok if your job duties changed and your boss cut half your pay because he didn't like it? Deducting gratuities due to bad service is arguable. Deducting gratuities because of a cruise line policy decision is not. It's not the employee's fault.

[sparks1093]

34 minutes ago, BasicSailor said:

What ships ?  

Pride and Glory (and maybe Fascination as well, can't remember when this change was made), but it was made clear that passengers still had this option and could choose twice a day service. Don't know if that will continue but that's the way it was rolled out.

Edited November 5, 2021 by sparks1093

[sparks1093]

19 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Ok. This is actually not ok. You can't actually think the room stewards are now getting half the work and double the free time. Clearly their hours are still filled with work. Would you be ok if your job duties changed and your boss cut half your pay because he didn't like it? Deducting gratuities due to bad service is arguable. Deducting gratuities because of a cruise line policy decision is not. It's not the employee's fault.

This is the way that I look at it. Even if we were only getting once a day service we'd likely keep the gratuities in place because I know that their workload wasn't reduced (although I'd probably not leave extra unless it was warranted). I have earned a living through tips and working on ships, although fortunately not both at the same time, so I know that they are earning their money.

Edited November 5, 2021 by sparks1093

[StolidCruiser]

To expand on the respondents in Post #67 and Post #69, here’s a summary from my perspective based on a boiled-down scenario that, in and of itself, has nuanced implications that cannot be accounted for in such a simplistic narrative and admittedly uses some a lot of assumptive data for demonstration purposes only:

 

CARNIVAL previously offered, as a part of its service, twice daily cabin attention for, lets say, $6 of the total daily service charge with that allocation assumptively earmarked for the cabin attendant for the performance of cabin attendance.  Each cabin attendant services each of 10 cabins twice a day (20 service performances) for that $6 a day – garnering $60 per day.

 

CARNVAL modifies its service offering to cabin attendance once per day for the same $6.  Cabin stewards are now expected to service 20 cabins once per day (20 service performances) at $6 per service – garnering $60 per day.

 

GUEST is unsatisfied with CARNIVAL modifying its service offering and feels they are getting half the service they previously received.  Fundamentally, that is true.  Practically, any company can modify its service and the corresponding price for that service at any time.  GUEST can either choose to pay that price for a diminished service or take their business elsewhere.

 

The wrinkle is that there is a loophole whereby CARNIVAL offers the guest the opportunity to adjust the daily service charge in the event the service performed as stipulated would be provided (the now once-a-day cabin attendance) was deficient.  GUEST chooses to adjust the daily service charge because they are not getting the services previously provided under an outdated/changed policy under the justification that CARNIVAL allows them to adjust the daily service charge.   Further assuming there was no actual deficiency in the services performed, a GUEST doing so is making a financial statement of disagreement to the fee associated with the current service based on a change in the construct of services currently offered that affects the cabin attendant.

 

The issue is further clouded by the inconsistent but continued use of “gratuity” to be synonymous with “daily service charge” (both by the GUEST and CARNIVAL) for the GUEST to justify adjustment under the argument that a gratuity is “at the discretion of the GUEST”.    

It is a wildly convoluted and fiercely defended belief – which is undeniably the right of each person to have. 

 

Reasonable people understand the bigger picture and realize the implication of adjusting the daily service charge simply out of objection to a change in CARNIVAL’s service offering.

 

A loose and imperfect analogy (again making assumptions):

RESTAURANT offers an entrée with, among other items, a side of free bread (valued at let’s say $1) for $13.99.  RESTAURANT chooses to no longer offer a side of free bread but leaves the price of the entrée at $13.99.  GUEST, dissatisfied that the free bread is no longer offered, feels the value of the entrée is now $12.99.   Instead of paying RESTAURANT only $12.99, GUEST chooses to reduce the customary gratuity to their server by $1.00 to “get back at RESTAURANT” for no longer offering free bread.  Assuming no shortcoming in service provided by the server, server now gets $1 less for performing their service because of a change in offering made by the RESTAURANT.

 

I doubt anyone would dispute that whether considered a daily service charge or a gratuity (whose amount is either predefined by the provider or completely discretionary by the guest), adjusting such for reasons outside the control of the individual providing the service (again, assuming the service was performed satisfactorily) is a back-handed approach.  Such action is often done after the service is actually provided giving the company and/or service provider no opportunity to adjust their own behavior for someone who wants to “eat the steak but not pay for it by complaining afterwards it wasn’t as big a steak as before”.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

Ok. This is actually not ok. You can't actually think the room stewards are now getting half the work and double the free time. Clearly their hours are still filled with work. Would you be ok if your job duties changed and your boss cut half your pay because he didn't like it? Deducting gratuities due to bad service is arguable. Deducting gratuities because of a cruise line policy decision is not. It's not the employee's fault.

Great point.  The stewards now have more rooms to service, not the same number as PreVid.  That also means they have more guests calling them for items and service requests.  I empathize because for the past 18 months, my "essentialness" earned me the responsibilities of my job and of  those folks who "worked" from home in my profession.  Same pay, 4 times the work but ""Thanks for that yard sign".  

[Elaine5715]

58 minutes ago, StolidCruiser said:

To expand on the respondents in Post #67 and Post #69, here’s a summary from my perspective based on a boiled-down scenario that, in and of itself, has nuanced implications that cannot be accounted for in such a simplistic narrative and admittedly uses some a lot of assumptive data for demonstration purposes only:

 

CARNIVAL previously offered, as a part of its service, twice daily cabin attention for, lets say, $6 of the total daily service charge with that allocation assumptively earmarked for the cabin attendant for the performance of cabin attendance.  Each cabin attendant services each of 10 cabins twice a day (20 service performances) for that $6 a day – garnering $60 per day.

 

CARNVAL modifies its service offering to cabin attendance once per day for the same $6.  Cabin stewards are now expected to service 20 cabins once per day (20 service performances) at $6 per service – garnering $60 per day.

 

GUEST is unsatisfied with CARNIVAL modifying its service offering and feels they are getting half the service they previously received.  Fundamentally, that is true.  Practically, any company can modify its service and the corresponding price for that service at any time.  GUEST can either choose to pay that price for a diminished service or take their business elsewhere.

 

The wrinkle is that there is a loophole whereby CARNIVAL offers the guest the opportunity to adjust the daily service charge in the event the service performed as stipulated would be provided (the now once-a-day cabin attendance) was deficient.  GUEST chooses to adjust the daily service charge because they are not getting the services previously provided under an outdated/changed policy under the justification that CARNIVAL allows them to adjust the daily service charge.   Further assuming there was no actual deficiency in the services performed, a GUEST doing so is making a financial statement of disagreement to the fee associated with the current service based on a change in the construct of services currently offered that affects the cabin attendant.

 

The issue is further clouded by the inconsistent but continued use of “gratuity” to be synonymous with “daily service charge” (both by the GUEST and CARNIVAL) for the GUEST to justify adjustment under the argument that a gratuity is “at the discretion of the GUEST”.    

It is a wildly convoluted and fiercely defended belief – which is undeniably the right of each person to have. 

 

Reasonable people understand the bigger picture and realize the implication of adjusting the daily service charge simply out of objection to a change in CARNIVAL’s service offering.

 

A loose and imperfect analogy (again making assumptions):

RESTAURANT offers an entrée with, among other items, a side of free bread (valued at let’s say $1) for $13.99.  RESTAURANT chooses to no longer offer a side of free bread but leaves the price of the entrée at $13.99.  GUEST, dissatisfied that the free bread is no longer offered, feels the value of the entrée is now $12.99.   Instead of paying RESTAURANT only $12.99, GUEST chooses to reduce the customary gratuity to their server by $1.00 to “get back at RESTAURANT” for no longer offering free bread.  Assuming no shortcoming in service provided by the server, server now gets $1 less for performing their service because of a change in offering made by the RESTAURANT.

 

I doubt anyone would dispute that whether considered a daily service charge or a gratuity (whose amount is either predefined by the provider or completely discretionary by the guest), adjusting such for reasons outside the control of the individual providing the service (again, assuming the service was performed satisfactorily) is a back-handed approach.  Such action is often done after the service is actually provided giving the company and/or service provider no opportunity to adjust their own behavior for someone who wants to “eat the steak but not pay for it by complaining afterwards it wasn’t as big a steak as before”.

Excellent summary. just add in that the cabin steward grats are shared by two crew members.  When a famous Floridan theme park offers "free dining", there is a significant number of guests who feign outrage over the suggested tip amount included on the receipt that shows the cost of the meal  but is zeroed out.  "20% of zero", they announce gleefully is "zero".

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

Pride and Glory (and maybe Fascination as well, can't remember when this change was made), but it was made clear that passengers still had this option and could choose twice a day service. Don't know if that will continue but that's the way it was rolled out.

Right now, the Carnival's COVID policy is meant to restrict the number of times crew enters each room so they are only supposed to service once.  That is why P/D guests are instructed to pick up their water and free gifts themselves so no crew is entering their cabin.   Before the shutdown, I also always requested and received twice a day service.  

[sparks1093]

4 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Right now, the Carnival's COVID policy is meant to restrict the number of times crew enters each room so they are only supposed to service once.  That is why P/D guests are instructed to pick up their water and free gifts themselves so no crew is entering their cabin.   Before the shutdown, I also always requested and received twice a day service.  

Makes sense, the hotels we've stayed in recently haven't offered any maid service during your stay for this reason. I still left the same amount that I would have normally.

[Roscoe13]

10 hours ago, DAllenTCY said:

Getting back to the original post.......my question is "Why pre-pay?".

 

What advantage is that to you?

 

You claim that you do it, yet wonder how you can change it?

 

Do you expect better service with pre-pay than you would get with out?

 

I don't get your point, maybe others do.

 

 

David

 

 

@DAllenTCY  I have often wondered the same thing until I discovered the awesomeness of discounted Carnival gift cards.  So now, unless like on my next cruise this January where I have $800 of OBC, I always prepay gratuities after purchasing gift cards at 10% discount.  I pay for everything that way.  Cruise fare, gratuities, any excursions through Carnival, Cheers package, etc.

[Roscoe13]

38 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Makes sense, the hotels we've stayed in recently haven't offered any maid service during your stay for this reason. I still left the same amount that I would have normally.

You are tipping for no service?

[sparks1093]

12 minutes ago, Roscoe13 said:

You are tipping for no service?

They clean before we get there and after we leave. We typically spend less than two nights in any given hotel. But even if we spent a week I wouldn't take it out on them by not leaving a tip. 

[mondello]

12 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

They clean before we get there and after we leave. We typically spend less than two nights in any given hotel. But even if we spent a week I wouldn't take it out on them by not leaving a tip. 

I spent a week in Orlando and they were only cleaning after 4 nights. They missed that and I had to request service the fifth night. I'd rather have tipped them daily if they tidied up/towels.

[Roscoe13]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

They clean before we get there and after we leave. We typically spend less than two nights in any given hotel. But even if we spent a week I wouldn't take it out on them by not leaving a tip. 

That sounds like charity rather than tipping to me. Obviously, you treat the scenario differently but I don't see the work/incentive/reward relationships. 

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, Roscoe13 said:

That sounds like charity rather than tipping to me. Obviously, you treat the scenario differently but I don't see the work/incentive/reward relationships. 

They aren't doing what they normally do because of a management policy decision in response to COVID. I'll not punish them for that. Might I feel differently if we spent more than a night somewhere? Possibly. But if someone can withhold tips because it's their money certainly I can provide tips for the same reason.🙂

[auburn77]

7 hours ago, Computer Nerd said:

IMO there is no valid reason to pre-pay other than the possible peace of mind it may give the person knowing they can walk off the ship without paying anything. But by pre-paying the cruiser loses control of that money for the amount of time they pre-paid and interest earned on that money.

The current 'interest' on, say , $200 , is about half a percent per year ($1). For a few months, it is about a quarter.