Woe With O ---Marina 12/1 Changes

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, edgee said:

Crystal is in a different league...not necessarily a better league...has its problems big time with older ships and financial issues but their product is different than O in that it is all inclusive and focuses on entertainment and enrichment to a level O chooses not to even come close to matching. O focuses more on the food and gorgeous ships IMHO. 

 

I agree  they have better entertainment  in some of the venues

 all inclusive ... NO

They do not offer classic cocktails on their inclusive menu  only pina Colada  & Grasshopper  & forget about asking the bartender to make something  different  unless you print off the recipe & give it to them

JME

[edgee]

11 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I agree  they have better entertainment  in some of the venues

 all inclusive ... NO

They do not offer classic cocktails on their inclusive menu  only pina Colada  & Grasshopper  & forget about asking the bartender to make something  different  unless you print off the recipe & give it to them

JME

I have had no trouble getting any drink I wish on Crystal, Lyn, but let's not divert from Hlitner's concern which is the topic of this thread. I am very glad I cancelled my reservation on Marina's Jan. 8 Antarctic cruise..I do not like uncertainty, although I certainly hope things do work out so that all Marina's S.A. cruises can occur as planned or at least nearly so. And, yes, I can speak highly of a large New Mexico cruise agency.

[LHT28]

With the pandemic still in full swing in some Countries I am not surprised  S.A. is a problem

it is not someplace I would book a cruise to  this year  or maybe even early 2022

Still too much uncertainty still

I hope those  that booked will get to sail 

[pinotlover]

11 hours ago, LHT28 said:

With the pandemic still in full swing in some Countries I am not surprised  S.A. is a problem

it is not someplace I would book a cruise to  this year  or maybe even early 2022

Still too much uncertainty still

I hope those  that booked will get to sail 

So thus the cruise industry is in perilous straights. A significant number of posters on this board have made it exceedingly clear that, for a multitude of personal reasons, they are not sailing until at least 2023. Some are not going again until late 2022. Their money, their decision to hunker.

 

We sailed in Europe this past summer and had a wonderful time. Low passenger counts equals incredible personal service aboard ship! Levels not to be expected when normalcy returns. We are also booked on one of those S.A. Oceania cruises in January and looking forward to it. Our personal decision is to not stay hunkered.

 

As reported on a different thread, Oceania missed it quarterly earnings projections quite badly. They are missing those projections not because of imposed capacity limits, but because they underestimated the number of ( past or ex) cruisers that have opted to stay hunkered. Our ship has availability in most all categories. 
 

Oceania is willing and bringing ships on line, strike up the band. Not enough people are wanting to dance. Missed earnings, missed cash flows, and subsequent increases in debt can’t continue indefinitely. People will either have to stop hunkering or they soon will have less to hunker from. It takes two to tango.

[Hlitner]

The last poster raised some good points about the cruise industry including the very disappointing report on NCLH cash flow (they continue to bleed cash at an alarming rate).  And we also noticed on this board (and many other CC boards) numerous posts from cruisers who have simply adopted an attitude to wait until at least 2023 to return to cruising/international travel.   We have actually been traveling and cruising and it has been both interesting and truly a once in a lifetime experience.  In late July we spent two weeks on the wonderful Seabourn Ovation cruising the Greek Islands.  That is a 600 passenger luxury vessel and we had slightly fewer then 300 passengers aboard with a crew of over 300 (better then 1 crew member for each passenger).  Needless to say the already fantastic Seabourn service was even more fantastic and the cruise was delightful.  SB did not have an imposed capacity limit but it was self-limiting because not many folks are willing to cruise.  In October we flew to Barbados where we boarded the smaller Seabourn Odyssey which normally carries about 450 passenger.  But on our cruise there were about 130 passengers (the most they have had since restarting in July) or about 30 percent of capacity.  We had a full crew of 360 so we had nearly 3 crew members for every passenger and it felt like we were cruising on our own yacht.  Truly amazing and lots of fun.

 

So now we are trying to cruise on the Marina (Dec 1) and I am sure that the ship is nowhere close to capacity.  But then this week O made everyone's life miserable (booked on that and the subsequent cruise) by suddenly changing the itinerary and moving the debarkation port about 1500 miles South to another country and a port that is located over 50 miles from the nearest airport.  This was done with no prior notice only 4 weeks before the Dec 1 cruise.  Folks that had taken this cruise (to or from Lima Peru which was the original debarkation/embarkation port) were left in a tough spot as were those of us simply planning to debark or disembark in Lima.  Then, less then 24 hours later (after many of us had cancelled and rebooked air) O announced essentially "ignore the previous e-mail, don't do anything, wait until at least Nov 8 when we might make another major change."  

 

So lets look at how all this will impact the cruise industry.  Many folks are going to look at what is happening with the Marina and say "I am not going to cruise until at least 2023 or later at a time when things are not in turmoil."  So not only has "O" caused lots of grief for those of us booked on the Marina but also driven one more nail into the coffin of the cruise industry by further discouraging anyone from booking a cruise.  

 

While the cruise industry is a victim of COVID just like all of us they are also a victim of their own incompetence.  Perhaps they can make the case that it is not their (cruise industry) fault but that will not help them convince folks to quickly return to cruising despite the continuing chaos.  

 

Hank

[ak1004]

I think those of us who decided to return to cruising knew exactly what we are signing up for. We knew that changes are possible, in some cases last minute changes. I'm sure nobody is enjoying this, especially not O. We don't know the whole story (especially not why the flip flop in less than 24 hours), but there are things beyond their control. 

 

I believe that people who are willing to get back to travel and take the risk will not be impacted by those developments (I know that we are still booked for 5 cruises in 2022-2023 and have no intentions to cancel them - in fact, we intend to book more). After 2 years of staying at home, some people just decided "enough is enough". We just need to adjust to the new normal.

 

So yes, this is an unpleasant situation, but I wouldn't rush and blame O (or any other cruise line). They are in impossible situation at this point. 

[Hlitner]

11 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

I think those of us who decided to return to cruising knew exactly what we are signing up for. We knew that changes are possible, in some cases last minute changes. I'm sure nobody is enjoying this, especially not O. We don't know the whole story (especially not why the flip flop in less than 24 hours), but there are things beyond their control. 

 

I believe that people who are willing to get back to travel and take the risk will not be impacted by those developments (I know that we are still booked for 5 cruises in 2022-2023 and have no intentions to cancel them - in fact, we intend to book more). After 2 years of staying at home, some people just decided "enough is enough". We just need to adjust to the new normal.

 

So yes, this is an unpleasant situation, but I wouldn't rush and blame O (or any other cruise line). They are in impossible situation at this point. 

I was not thinking of those of us who have already returned to cruising/travel but about the many fence sitters who keep delaying their own return to cruising/travel.  Each additional "issue" just drives folks back into their caves where they continue to watch and wait.  Not my style or yours but we represent a minority of folks that are willing to deal with all these challenges.   Just this morning we read about another hassle/road block being implemented in France (the 4th change in their already notorious Health Pass).  None of this helps the fence sitters regain their travel confidence.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

The latest development on this 12/1 cruise is that it has completely disappeared from our "O" account.  We assume that this is one of those software issues or that "O" is doing some kind of upgrade.  But then again, who knows.

 

Hank

[Hunding]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

The latest development on this 12/1 cruise is that it has completely disappeared from our "O" account.  We assume that this is one of those software issues or that "O" is doing some kind of upgrade.  But then again, who knows.

 

Hank

 

I'm sure that the three Marina cruises scheduled for December 1st and 19th departures will return to Oceania's web site sometime on Monday, once a [please God] final determination is made about Ecuador and Peru.

[1985rz1]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

The latest development on this 12/1 cruise is that it has completely disappeared from our "O" account.  We assume that this is one of those software issues or that "O" is doing some kind of upgrade.  But then again, who knows.

 

Hank

Oceania performs system maintenance Saturdays, and missing cruises are often a consequence.  They are usually restored sometime on Sunday.

[Hlitner]

22 minutes ago, Hunding said:

 

I'm sure that the three Marina cruises scheduled for December 1st and 19th departures will return to Oceania's web site sometime on Monday, once a [please God] final determination is made about Ecuador and Peru.

We have finally made some of our own decisions about the 12/1 sailing.  If O is able to restore the original debarkation port to Lima we will deal with our air issue and happily take the cruise.  But if O decides to skip Lima and take the ship about 1500 miles south to Chile we will do our best to cancel our booking.....somehow!  Bottom line is that we booked an 18 day cruise from Miami to Lima and that is still what we would book.  We have no interest in going to Chile and dealing with awful airport transfer situation (more then 50 miles) or ridiculous pricing on air not to mention lots of schedule hassles.  While we can be somewhat understanding that COVID requires changes, a movement of a debarkation port over 1500 miles (more then the distance from Maine to Florida) and to a different country is a bridge too far....especially when the change is made with 3 weeks notice.  And there is also the minor issue that changing to Santiago would add more then $2000 onto our air cost (just for economy)  not to mention many more hours in the air.

 

Hank

[LGW59]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:50 PM, Hlitner said:

Am well aware :(.  When we booked this cruise it was done through what had previously been a decent cruise agency.  But it appears that COVID has taken its toll and this particular agency got rid of a few folks and now wants several business days to even return calls.  I guess the good news is that they are still in business :).  Those of us who have done travel during COVID are getting very used to dealing with "challenges."   But "O" laid out two options today, which is within a month of the cruise.  Option 1 is to keep the booking in which case we must rearrange our air.  No problem dealing with Delta as they quickly refunded all of our miles plus the taxes.  But getting air home from Santiago is a pain (but doable) although not as good a deal as we had from Lima.  

 

But the question here is that "O" not only eliminated two countries (and 4 ports) but then changed the final port.  This actually will be a bigger problem for those on that cruise that intended to go to Machu Picu either post cruise or those who made their own plans to go to Machu Picu before the cruise departing from Lima.  So with less then an month's notice "O" has really messed up the plans of many folks.    As to us, we could still take the cruise and book air from Santigo.  or....we could cancel the cruise in which case "O" is saying we would only get a FCC with no additional compensation.  

 

But the plot thickens.  Compared to many we are in pretty good shape because we have a few options.  Those with plans to Machu Pico are royally screwed.  And since "O" has made so many darn changes I guess we could simply file a "charge back" request with our credit card company  claiming we are not getting the cruise for which we paid  (this would be our last resort).  

 

The issue we have with "O" is that they waited until today (less then one month before the cruise) to notify their customers of all these changes.  And "O" is not offering a full refund to folks who want to cancel.  So here is my dilemma.  I could book air from Santiago tonight...but should I have any faith in "O" that they will not completely change this cruise itinerary tomorrow, next week, or even cancel!  When I talked to "O" 4 days ago (I called about another issue) they assured me that there were no indications of any changes (which now appears to be a big laugh).  

 

In our cruise experience (with 16 cruise other cruise lines) we have never dealt with such a situation and awful customer service.  In "O's" e-mail about the changes they clearly said if we had questions to contact either your cruise agent or Oceania's Customer Service.  Since O is a "Premium Line" (or so some say) we expected that customer service to be helpful.  They were not!  In fact, even MSC's Customer Service is a lot more responsive and they are considered one of the worst.  

 

My issue with "O" is quite simple.  Since they have made such a massive change to this cruise itinerary (including changing the final disembarkation country!) they should offer a refund of the cruise fare.  Offering a FCC that is limited by time (only one year to book another cruise) on a line where many of their future cruises are sold out...is not a particularly good option.  Perhaps O is a Premium Cruise Line but their policies and customer service are bush league.  I would be remiss in not giving a real complement to Delta and their customer service.  When we called them about the problem with our return air from Lima the Delta folks could not have been nicer and more helpful (unlike O).  Delta tried to find a way to change our Lima booking to a Santiago booking but could not come up with any reasonable option.  Unlike "O" Delta quickly agreed to refund all our miles and taxes.  These days few folks have anything good to say about our airlines but now I must admit that Delta's Customer Service makes O look very bad.

 

Hank

Sounds like you are blaming O for the pandemic caused changes in various countries, it is what it is, make a decision but stop blaming O, I see this on so many other line boards on here.  It is not easy, but nothing in the past 19 months has been.  Good luck.

[Homerody]

As I have a vested interest in the Marina's travels (8 Jan sailing) I have been reading this thread with much interest and anxiety (no foreboding yet.  I'll wait till Monday for that or Sunday after the teams I root for end with another loss).

 

I checked O website yesterday evening, and the 1 Dec and 19 Dec were gone from website then.  I guess they'll be back for Monday.  Hopefully.

 

As for NCLH earnings etc...the Street did not pummel then too badly for their earnings miss.  And on Friday,  the stock had nice bounce of 7.83% on positive covid pill news.  So I'm thinking investors are well aware of challenges NCLH is facing and hanging in there for now.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Homerody
typos

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have finally made some of our own decisions about the 12/1 sailing.  If O is able to restore the original debarkation port to Lima we will deal with our air issue and happily take the cruise.  But if O decides to skip Lima and take the ship about 1500 miles south to Chile we will do our best to cancel our booking.....somehow!  Bottom line is that we booked an 18 day cruise from Miami to Lima and that is still what we would book.  We have no interest in going to Chile and dealing with awful airport transfer situation (more then 50 miles) or ridiculous pricing on air not to mention lots of schedule hassles.  While we can be somewhat understanding that COVID requires changes, a movement of a debarkation port over 1500 miles (more then the distance from Maine to Florida) and to a different country is a bridge too far....especially when the change is made with 3 weeks notice.  And there is also the minor issue that changing to Santiago would add more then $2000 onto our air cost (just for economy)  not to mention many more hours in the air.

 

Hank

 

We will probably do the same. Spending 5 days at sea just to go to a country that we will not actually see just to add more time and money to fly from doesn't really make sense. Peru and Ecuador were among the highlights of this cruise, without them we can just book a similar cruise that starts and ends in Miami (which is what we will probably do if the original itinerary is not restored).

[cptxcpl]

17 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

We will probably do the same. Spending 5 days at sea just to go to a country that we will not actually see just to add more time and money to fly from doesn't really make sense. Peru and Ecuador were among the highlights of this cruise, without them we can just book a similar cruise that starts and ends in Miami (which is what we will probably do if the original itinerary is not restored).

We are in the same boat (pun intended). Dec 1 to Jan 8, but have no intention of canceling whatever happens on Monday. Peru, with a sidetrip to Machu Picchu, was to be the highlight of the trip but we will take whatever the cruise ends up to be. Looking forward to getting away and meeting all those who will be on board.

[KirkNC]

20 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Sounds like you are blaming O for the pandemic caused changes in various countries, it is what it is, make a decision but stop blaming O, I see this on so many other line boards on here.  It is not easy, but nothing in the past 19 months has been.  Good luck.

I agree, if you choose to travel now, things can happen to disrupt your best laid plans.  Given the OP’s frequent comments on how extensively they have traveled during the pandemic I would think this would be understood. 

[susiesan]

For those of you who have Macchu Pichu as the highlight of your trip/cruise, just cancel the cruise and do a land trip in Peru. There are many other interesting places there to visit. I did a 10 day land trip there in 2016 and went to 5 different locales on a private tour put together by Peru Best Tours. it was one of the top 5 vacations I have ever been on in having travelled to over 90 countries over the last 45 years.

[Guppy99]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:50 PM, Hlitner said:

l  These days few folks have anything good to say about our airlines but now I must admit that Delta's Customer Service makes O look very bad.

 

Hank

If you have been traveling during Covid, then you are aware that last minutes changes (even dramatic ones) can occur.  Once you go through a TA, you simply can not go back to the cruise line. You know that, yet you complain about it anyway.   I just read my contact with Celebrity for my cruise coming up next month.  They are very clear about last minutes changes.   So then I re-read the contract with my scheduled Oceania cruise as well.  Also very clear.  Since you opted to do your air yourself, you simply can't hold them responsible for any of the problems it causes you for your pre/post-cruise travel  During this pandemic the likelihood of change is very high.  If you are not prepared to be very flexible, then you should not travel at this juncture. Did you avail yourself of the travel insurance? 

[Homerody]

Reading through this thread I am reminded of the tendency that if something happens to me is is a travesty and a huge problem if it happens to someone else it is their misfortune.

 

While it is true that pandemic has created many problems and uncertainty, and using a TA one surrenders a lot of control including direct contact with cruiseline.  Yet, a tiny bit of empathy and compassion goes a long way.  Because next week something may change on your sailing  (or even the awaited Monday O update) and the shoe may be on the other foot.

 

 

 

 

[Guppy99]

8 minutes ago, Homerody said:

Reading through this thread I am reminded of the tendency that if something happens to me is is a travesty and a huge problem if it happens to someone else it is their misfortune.

 

While it is true that pandemic has created many problems and uncertainty, and using a TA one surrenders a lot of control including direct contact with cruiseline.  Yet, a tiny bit of empathy and compassion goes a long way.  Because next week something may change on your sailing  (or even the awaited Monday O update) and the shoe may be on the other foot.

 

 

 

 

I am sorry for anyone who is disappointed or inconvenienced with changes. However, when someone blames other parties and denigrates them without understanding or acknowledging the circumstances, then my sympathy wanes. 

[Homerody]

6 hours ago, susiesan said:

For those of you who have Macchu Pichu as the highlight of your trip/cruise, just cancel the cruise and do a land trip in Peru. There are many other interesting places there to visit. I did a 10 day land trip there in 2016 and went to 5 different locales on a private tour put together by Peru Best Tours. it was one of the top 5 vacations I have ever been on in having travelled to over 90 countries over the last 45 years.

That is our plan b for the 8 Jan sailing.  A land private Argentina and Chile vacation. But I would venture to guess that most folks here on CC are avid cruisers and prefer that mode of vacation.  I, on the other hand, am a DIY land vacation person with an occasional cruise thrown in.

 

I would venture to guess @susiesanyou mix up your vacations too between land and sea, as I know you are active on TripAdvsior and FT too.

 

And thanks for the Peru recommendation.  I will be contacting them as I plan my future Peru trip. 

[khh - explorer]

Also had a recommendation for a Peru land trip if you don't do a private tour.  We did a small group tour with Odysseys Unlimited called Treasures of Peru that went to Machu Picchu, Cuzco et al and was fantastic.  Added their extension to the Amazon which was also great.

[dszrew]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:43 PM, LGW59 said:

Sounds like you are blaming O for the pandemic caused changes in various countries, it is what it is, make a decision but stop blaming O, I see this on so many other line boards on here.  It is not easy, but nothing in the past 19 months has been.  Good luck.

IMHO, if O were to grant a full cash refund for this cruise that is drastically changing at the last minute, it would solve the problem. I don't see people blaming O for Covid-related changes, but O is completely capable of allowing full cash refunds but chooses not to. They could restore good will by allowing the OP a full refund for the modified cruise. Not FCC, but full cash refund. 

 

When it comes our turn next summer, if our cruise is drastically changed, I would expect nothing less. I really have no use for a $30,000 FCC. I am watching this case, and if refunds are not allowed, then I'm less inclined to make final payment and risk O leaving me in a similar situation.

Edited November 8, 2021 by dszrew

[Mura]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:55 AM, sunlover12 said:

On our first Oceania cruise, the port of embarkation was changed from London to Dover.  O emailed the passengers about 15 hours prior to embarkation.  There was no offer to arrange transportation. We had to scramble to hire a private car which was quite costly. I wish I had known about this at that time.  I know it now and will keep it in mind if it happens again.  Thanks.

I'm seeing this late but thought I would comment anyway.  One of our Renaissance cruises back in the day -- we flew in to LHR but knew the port of departure was Dover.  We also came in a day or two early.

 

Please do note that we KNEW the departure port.  But we found the bus from -- hmm, I forget where it left from but it was easy to get to from the airport by public transport.  And it took us to very close to our hotel in Dover.

 

Would we want to do this today, 30 years later?  Maybe not!  But the bus IS an alternative ... although, I admit that it could be difficult to book at the last minute.

 

Can't blame you for being unhappy at all!

[Hlitner]

54 minutes ago, dszrew said:

IMHO, if O were to grant a full cash refund for this cruise that is drastically changing at the last minute, it would solve the problem. I don't see people blaming O for Covid-related changes, but O is completely capable of allowing full cash refunds but chooses not to. They could restore good will by allowing the OP a full refund for the modified cruise. Not FCC, but full cash refund. 

 

When it comes our turn next summer, if our cruise is drastically changed, I would expect nothing less. I really have no use for a $30,000 FCC. I am watching this case, and if refunds are not allowed, then I'm less inclined to make final payment and risk O leaving me in a similar situation.

Yep, you have most of it right :).  As to the blame game, we do understand that O is also a victim of all the COVID stuff.  But where we do blame them is that they they reversed their decision within 24 hours...or did they?  Nobody really knows and we are to get an update tomorrow so perhaps this will all get resolved.  But based on Os advice we (and others) quickly made changes to existing air arrangements and land tours only to be told (within 24 hours) that they (O) may have again changed their mind.  It is interesting that on Friday O not only deleted the entire cruise booking from our account (and we believe the others who are booked) but also took the 12/1 and 12/19 cruises off their web site.  At this moment if you look on the O web site it is as if those two cruises do not even exist!  Just adds to the mystery and anxiety but perhaps O will explain all tomorrow (Nov 8).   If not, customer patience might be running a bit thin given there will only be 3 weeks until the 12/1 cruise.   As to the FCC vs full refund issue we shall have to see how that plays out.  But those that are critical of cruisers wanting a full refund might compare this to a person who purchases and fully pays for a Ford and then is given a Chevy and told to take it or leave it and we will give you a time limited credit for a car next year.  We booked a cruise from Miami to Lima!  Yes, we understand that itineraries change but debarkation ports do not change 1500 miles to another country!  In such as a case it is no longer the same cruise (not even close).   My goodness, imagine booking a cruise that ends in Seattle and being told you will be taken to Los Cabos, Mexico and it is your problem to deal with the airline changes!  That is similar to what we have here with a change from Lima to Santiago.

 

Hank