Move cruise to later date,

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Your TA can request the FCC as an actual doc which’s/he can share with you. It will have dates/T&Cs/etc.

Ohhh...if only we had a Crystal Ball (is likely the refrain in cruise line executive suites).  I am a huge fan of the cruise industry and have never been a cheerleader for any one particular cruise line (we have cruised on 16 different lines).  The cruise corporations all did planning to get them through 2021 and at least part of 2022.  Things were slowly improving until Omicron caused a new worldwide panic (mostly of governments).   The reality is that we have a new worldwide variant which likely has a lower death rate then even the flu but time will tell.  Much of the info/statistics being pumped out by certain governments has proved to be so ridiculously wrong that it boggles this little mind.  In just a little over a week our own CDC went from saying that over 72% of cases were due to Omicron...and then quickly retrenched to as little as 22% when their own statistics simply made no sense.  Were their numbers based on extensive testing to determine variant types?  No.  They relied on a relatively small number of tests and a huge amount of speculation.

 

Why do I say this?  Because we now have that same CDC telling folks "DO NOT CRUISE."  While some cruise lovers (including moi) are simply ignoring the CDC many other folks will be scared away from the cruise industry.  So while we all speculate about excess FCCs skewing the market, future itineraries, etc.  the cruise industry keeps bleeding cash at an alarming rate.  And the truth is that 3 of the major cruise lines (RCI, CCL and NCLH) have not built in enough contingency to deal with many more set-backs like we are seeing with Omicron.  Of all the major cruise corporations only MSC is in a position to weather a long range storm of COVID.

 

So if folks want to speculate about FCCs they might want to wonder what happens to all those FCCs if the cruise lines fail (financially).  The cruise lines now have to deal with a combination of negative factors that work against their future, i.e. long term debt, rising interest rates, lack of open ports, inflation that impacts just about everything including fuel and food, and finally the worst blow of all....the continuing worldwide fear of COVID!  

 

Unfortunately, the cruise industry is not in a position to control their own future.  They must try to ride along the many waves of COVID hoping for the best.  But I truly fear for the future of the industry.  Yesterday I flew into Puerto Vallarta (our winter home) and drove past the big beautiful Majestic Princess (here for a port day) with its vastly reduced occupancy rate. It is likely that the Majestic Princess is losing money because of that low occupancy. 

 

 When I got into town I was happy to see the city absolutely packed with visitors.  Soon after reaching our Condo, DW and I went out to nearby beach bar/restaurant for a snack.  The manager (a very old Mexican friend) came over to our table with a big smile and told me that business had been good since October!  Last evening I went to one my favorite restaurants where last year, there were often no more then 5 or 6 tables of customers and found the place packed and the owner (a friend) walking around with a smile.  But when I thought of our beloved cruise industry I doubted if there were any smiles in the executive suites.  Today we went to buy lots of food and supplies at COSTCO and found the place packed.  It took us more than 45 min just to get through the check-out line. Business was obviously booming.  While resorts in places like Mexico and Greece have started to recover with nearly boom times, other places around the world (and the cruise industry) continue in a long "funk" with no end in sight.  There will be new COVID variants and new viruses...as that is just the way nature works.  But how we react to those viruses will have a much bigger impact on our future then the actual virus.   Folks are flocking here to PV well aware that we are in the midst of a nasty pandemic.  But they are coming here despite COVID and obviously living the life!   If only cruisers would have the same attitude.

 

Hank

[suejerrytx]

22 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Interesting. Both Marriott and Intercontinental have extended the “book by” deadline to keep your points intact.

I scrambled to use Marriott timeshare options this year as i thought they would expire at the end of this year.  Then after I used them they extended them again.  Oh well - I had two great trip tp Hawaii - April and August

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

On 1/1/2022 at 9:47 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

This should put your mind at ease.😉

IF it helps, I've been following the adventures of another cruise line as sent a ship around the Horn recently.  Cruisers on both trips reported the sea was fairly cooperative. 

 

[Hinda]

Well we are in Miami ready to get on the ship.  Oceania refused to let us move to a later date or give us FCC.  Oceania shame on you.  We will try to be careful and do our best to enjoy the cruise. Today is my 80th Birthday

 

Hinda and Bill

[Queen of DaNile]

1 hour ago, Hinda said:

Well we are in Miami ready to get on the ship.  Oceania refused to let us move to a later date or give us FCC.  Oceania shame on you.  We will try to be careful and do our best to enjoy the cruise. Today is my 80th Birthday

 

Hinda and Bill

Happy Birthday. Relax and enjoy your cruise!

[RCD1952]

1 hour ago, Hinda said:

Well we are in Miami ready to get on the ship.  Oceania refused to let us move to a later date or give us FCC.  Oceania shame on you.  We will try to be careful and do our best to enjoy the cruise. Today is my 80th Birthday

 

Hinda and Bill

Oceania is trashing goodwill with their customer base by not allowing flexibility.  Yes, shame on them!

[ak1004]

Honestly, I'm not sure why people expect Oceania (or any cruise line) to provide any refunds of FCCs. They are running a business, and if someone decides they are too scared to cruise right now, it's their decision.

[susiesan]

14 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Honestly, I'm not sure why people expect Oceania (or any cruise line) to provide any refunds of FCCs. They are running a business, and if someone decides they are too scared to cruise right now, it's their decision.

A lot of people wanting to change dates are not afraid to cruise but are unhappy with all of the port changes and new regulations put in place. They are not getting the cruise they signed up for. 

[Jayne E]

20 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Honestly, I'm not sure why people expect Oceania (or any cruise line) to provide any refunds of FCCs. They are running a business, and if someone decides they are too scared to cruise right now, it's their decision.

Those who wish to cancel are not all doing so only due to fear but due to a cruise filled with closed ports and additional sea days that in no way resembles what was booked. Add to that the outbreaks on most recent cruises.  A very boring and expensive experience being quarantined in a ship cabin. 
Apparently Viking, Celebrity, Royal Carib, Carnival and others agree as they were quick to adjust the cancellation policy in response to the new Omicron variant. Not Oceania or Regent.  Oceania Riviera lost 3 ports and added 3 sea days and opened the bar for 2 days. I guess they figure if you get boozed up enough you won’t realize you’re really on an inexpensive “crossing” cruise 🤣

[ak1004]

1 minute ago, Jayne E said:

Those who wish to cancel are not all doing so only due to fear but due to a cruise filled with closed ports and additional sea days that in no way resembles what was booked. Add to that the outbreaks on most recent cruises.  A very boring and expensive experience being quarantined in a ship cabin. 
Apparently Viking, Celebrity, Royal Carib, Carnival and others agree as they were quick to adjust the cancellation policy in response to the new Omicron variant. Not Oceania or Regent.  Oceania Riviera lost 3 ports and added 3 sea days and opened the bar for 2 days. I guess they figure if you get boozed up enough you won’t realize you’re really on an inexpensive “crossing” cruise 🤣

 

When our Dec.1 cruise from Miami to Lima was significantly modified, they allowed an option to cancel and get an FCC (and some people actually got a refund). So I guess they still do it in some cases, but the question is where you put the line between "modified itinerary" and "completely different cruise". Sometimes they might not even know in advance.

 

As for outbreaks - the positivity rate is still significantly less than 1%, much less than in many cities. I really don't see what has changed, except for the media hysteria.

[Jayne E]

2 hours ago, Hinda said:

Well we are in Miami ready to get on the ship.  Oceania refused to let us move to a later date or give us FCC.  Oceania shame on you.  We will try to be careful and do our best to enjoy the cruise. Today is my 80th Birthday

 

Hinda and Bill

Happy Birthday and wishing you a good time.  
Very disappointed in Oceania. Guess the NCL passengers are more important for retention. 

[AlexCherie]

1 minute ago, ak1004 said:

 

When our Dec.1 cruise from Miami to Lima was significantly modified, they allowed an option to cancel and get an FCC (and some people actually got a refund). So I guess they still do it in some cases, but the question is where you put the line between "modified itinerary" and "completely different cruise". Sometimes they might not even know in advance.

 

As for outbreaks - the positivity rate is still significantly less than 1%, much less than in many cities. I really don't see what has changed, except for the media hysteria.

It remains to be seen if this tour de force of COVID will become standard OP. 

But the change in itinerary for the January 4 sailing of Riveria should be call to anyone as regards ports. Smaller villages and locales simply are not well equipped to handle this pandemic. 

Trips like the one on April 4 (same ship) will require you to be very open to the changes of the day. Recommendation remains: be a potter, not a steelworker.

[Redtravel]

2 hours ago, Hinda said:

Well we are in Miami ready to get on the ship.  Oceania refused to let us move to a later date or give us FCC.  Oceania shame on you.  We will try to be careful and do our best to enjoy the cruise. Today is my 80th Birthday

 

Hinda and Bill

Happy Birthday!  It's sad that you couldn't get fcc or rebooked.  Did you use a travel agent or did you book directly?  Have a good time.  Hope that your cruise isn't too impacted by covid.  Please post how things are on the ship. 

[ohmark]

3 hours ago, Hinda said:

Well we are in Miami ready to get on the ship.  Oceania refused to let us move to a later date or give us FCC.  Oceania shame on you.  We will try to be careful and do our best to enjoy the cruise. Today is my 80th Birthday

 

Hinda and Bill

Hope your cruise resembles the typically wonderful cruise on Oceania.

If you have a chance, if you could report back on your cruise, I'm sure many folks here would be appreciative.  Many of us are wondering about to what extent  and where the masking policy is enforced, whether the entertainment, music venues, and restaurants are as normal, and whether you stop at and are able to enjoy the various ports.

Good luck, and enjoy!

Mark

[RCD1952]

1 hour ago, susiesan said:

A lot of people wanting to change dates are not afraid to cruise but are unhappy with all of the port changes and new regulations put in place. They are not getting the cruise they signed up for. 

EXACTLY.  Assuming there was a cruise exchange marketplace, what do you think the market value of the Jan-Feb cruises would be right now?  Probably closer to zero rather than what was paid.

Edited January 4, 2022 by RCD1952

[ORV]

Maybe it's just the way I look at things but it seems to me that anyone booking a cruise in the last 20 months or so should realize the risks being taken in the current environment. Changed ports, testing, extra expense, chance of quarantine, etc. is nothing new since cruising has started back. You take a chance, it doesn't always work out the way we would like it. That is why some of us haven't gone on a cruise yet. Not fear, but uncertainty of what the product will be. I'm not sure all this blaming of the Cruise Line is justified. There's something to be said for personal responsibility.  Having said that I have a cruise coming up in May that I strongly felt would be close to normal when I booked it. At this point who knows. If it goes I'll be onboard. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Honestly, I'm not sure why people expect Oceania (or any cruise line) to provide any refunds of FCCs. They are running a business, and if someone decides they are too scared to cruise right now, it's their decision.

Amen!

 

[DC225]

14 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Amen!

 

 

I think the expectation comes because future credit flexibility has gone mainstream in much the travel industry.  Every airline is offering flexibility, many tour operators are, and here we have a cruise line where the "lower end" brand is again offering flexibility but the "high end" brand is not - which is frankly odd because there's a general expectation of better service at the higher end of the market.

 

 

My partner and I have our first ever cruise set to depart in February.  He just tested positive for COVID and I'm sick as a dog though still testing negative.  Since the pandemic began, we've moved countless flights with no issues.  We had zero problem getting flexible terms with tour operators in Africa (which fortunately we never needed, but it was tremendous peace of mind).  A big selling point for us was the flexibility Oceania was offering at the time of booking, which we knew would only get us through the date of final payment, but at the time we thought we'd have a good sense as to the COVID world by that point. Of course nobody has a crystal ball, and nobody could have predicted the rise of omicron.  I mistakenly assumed that Oceania would recognize that the latest surge would cause tremendous stress and anxiety with its passengers.  If their downmarket parent can be flexible, why can't they?  Had I known that Oceania would throw a big "tough luck" at us in another COVID surge, I probably would have never booked.  

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, DC225 said:

 

I think the expectation comes because future credit flexibility has gone mainstream in much the travel industry.  Every airline is offering flexibility, many tour operators are, and here we have a cruise line where the "lower end" brand is again offering flexibility but the "high end" brand is not - which is frankly odd because there's a general expectation of better service at the higher end of the market.

 

 

My partner and I have our first ever cruise set to depart in February.  He just tested positive for COVID and I'm sick as a dog though still testing negative.  Since the pandemic began, we've moved countless flights with no issues.  We had zero problem getting flexible terms with tour operators in Africa (which fortunately we never needed, but it was tremendous peace of mind).  A big selling point for us was the flexibility Oceania was offering at the time of booking, which we knew would only get us through the date of final payment, but at the time we thought we'd have a good sense as to the COVID world by that point. Of course nobody has a crystal ball, and nobody could have predicted the rise of omicron.  I mistakenly assumed that Oceania would recognize that the latest surge would cause tremendous stress and anxiety with its passengers.  If their downmarket parent can be flexible, why can't they?  Had I known that Oceania would throw a big "tough luck" at us in another COVID surge, I probably would have never booked.  

 

if one of you tests positive within 2 weeks of embarkation, you can receive a full refund. Other than that, read the numerous posts explaining how reasonable requests for cruise transfers (rather than FCCs) often are granted by O.

FWIW: It’s amazing how many folks either don’t read their Ticket Contract or follow the O website SailSafe updates.

[susiesan]

11 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

FWIW: It’s amazing how many folks either don’t read their Ticket Contract or follow the O website SailSafe updates.

Sail Safe has not been updated since Dec. 20, 2021. it's like the staff at Oceania HQ went on a Christmas break then and have not returned to work yet.

[Jayne E]

10 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

if one of you tests positive within 2 weeks of embarkation, you can receive a full refund. Other than that, read the numerous posts explaining how reasonable requests for cruise transfers (rather than FCCs) often are granted by O.

FWIW: It’s amazing how many folks either don’t read their Ticket Contract or follow the O website SailSafe updates.

Obviously they will not have Covid in two weeks as they have it now. Neither will I unfortunately.  You’ve posted several times about people not reading the Ticket Contract and/or Oceania SailSafe updates.  We read it….our TA makes mention of it before making deposit. We’re a pretty savvy group!  That does nothing to explain why NCL Ticket Contract and Peace of Mind policy is being amended with cancellation allowed and O’s has not. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

7 minutes ago, Jayne E said:

  That does nothing to explain why NCL Ticket Contract and Peace of Mind policy is being amended with cancellation allowed and O’s has not. 

The three cruise lines (Regent, NCL and Oceania) comprising the partnership in NCL Holding are mostly independent entities, particularly when it comes to their maritime operations decisions.

[Jayne E]

1 minute ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The three cruise lines (Regent, NCL and Oceania) comprising the partnership in NCL Holding are mostly independent entities, particularly when it comes to their maritime operations decisions.

A lesson in the corporate structure is meaningless …… most are aware NCLH comprises independent corporate entities ….. what we’re discussing is extremely poor customer service by one of the entities….nothing more. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, Jayne E said:

A lesson in the corporate structure is meaningless …… most are aware NCLH comprises independent corporate entities ….. what we’re discussing is extremely poor customer service by one of the entities….nothing more. 

It’s a bit more complicated. 
NCL is a huge operation that includes megaships and significantly more Covid related challenges.  Oceania is smaller and their SailSafe protocols are working (particularly as regards dealing with positive Covid cases).

As for Regent: Despite requests for a link to the supposed policy change on cancellation, no one has provided proof that the cancellation allowance mentioned in a CC post was anything more than the same kind of TA group cancel OK that O has also done (e.g., with the 1/4 Riviera cruise).

[DC225]

31 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

It’s a bit more complicated. 
NCL is a huge operation that includes megaships and significantly more Covid related challenges.  Oceania is smaller and their SailSafe protocols are working (particularly as regards dealing with positive Covid cases).

As for Regent: Despite requests for a link to the supposed policy change on cancellation, no one has provided proof that the cancellation allowance mentioned in a CC post was anything more than the same kind of TA group cancel OK that O has also done (e.g., with the 1/4 Riviera cruise).

 

Do you have data or evidence to support your statement that Oceania's SailSafe protocol is working better than NCL's approach?