Rhine water levels 2022 and similar topics

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, Jjg34219 said:

We are boarding Viking Hervor in 2 hours.

Then you are now on the ship and "my" river. Have a great sailing out of Basel and a beautiful first sunset over the valley.

 

It is a great day today for sightseeing, not too hot. Hope the next few days will be as pleasant.

 

By the way, Kaub river level has risen a bit after all the rain, stands at 175cm. Outlook is good. If you want to have a look when you are in the Gorge: Kaub gauge is at 546.3 km.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

22 hours ago, Techno123 said:

view through the vineyards down to the Rhine which we took on our hike up to the Niederwald monument in Rudesheim

Lovely spot above Rüdesheim. At the touristy small town I find the best thing to do is get off the ship, dash through Drosselgasse, take your breath and then leisurely walk away from it all up the hill or take the Seilbahn to the Niederwald Monument. I say that because I do not like crowds.

 

The Monument is huge and the view is great from up there.

 

Now, onto different vistas. Flowers.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Keukenhof is one of the favourite places to go to in Springtime on the Rhine and in the Netherlands/Belgium (which arguably is not on the Rhine, but it is the Rhine itinerary section of brochures, so I will leave it at that). This year the famous Floriade takes place in the Netherlands. Splendid flowers, this year lasting into Summer, not just tulips, etc. are on the agenda for river cruisers. Great, but what about some more at the other end (of your cruise)? Basel is probably not the best place to look for that, but not far from Basel, past the bend of the river and travelling a little upstream on land, you get to Lake Constance. It is the natural reservoir of the Rhine, huge and in my opinion a great area to explore.

 

Now, I understand that the hills/mountains of Switzerland are a great lure but there is something else that I see as a potential great pre or post cruise experience. Logistics may pose a little challenge but it is rewarding to sort that out.

 

In Lake Constance is an island called Mainau. It is famous for its flowers and vistas over the Lake. This is not a place for a quick two hour stop I find and is not just great in Spring. Here is an older article that explains what it is about: https://www.travelawaits.com/2479395/mainau-germanys-enchanting-flower-island/

 

Over the decades, the noble family have created a haven for flower enthusiasts and garden lovers. A short video: https://www.dw.com/en/mainau-the-flower-island/av-57757013

 

If you would like to plan a visit, here is the website: https://www.mainau.de/en/welcome.html

 

I would like to see a river cruise on the Rhine focus on gardens and nature, perhaps in May or June. For me Mainau island with a boat trip on the Lake would be a great pre-cruise starting point.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by notamermaid

[notamermaid]

The Rhine's natural reservoir also has a level gauge (I have mentioned it briefly before). And that looks good. Recently replenished, and due to the lake's size just a few centimetres is a lot of water in cubic metres. There has been a continuous rise of over 50 centimetres, now seemingly levelling off:

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

"Ships, more ships, no space! What are we going to do?" Imagine a local authority contemplating...

 

Koblenz is such a busy port and there have been measures looked at and taken - or not. On a busy river you cannot just build and have done with it. Traffic, current, low water, high water, other infrastructure, locals, nature - all have to be taken into account when giving new space to ships. One thing Koblenz tried was limited triple docking on the Moselle. River cruise ships - is my impression - also increasingly dock on the Rhine, where Viking is docking anyway but there is another landing stage along that left bank of the Rhine as well. Viking applied for docking at Winningen on the Moselle (which is in close proximity to Koblenz), meaning have another landing stage built, which would have been their own. There is one that is already in use for all companies. The local council did not give permission.

 

AmaWaterways had the in my opinion brilliant idea a few years ago to move out to Lahnstein. A very successful endeavour for both town and company.

 

So, what about Koblenz, problem still not solved. A couple of weeks ago I saw an article in the local newspaper online, hiding behind a paywall, but with enough information available in the three free sentences for me to figure out that a new landing stage has just been opened "Im Dahl", meaning in the suburb of Ehrenbreitstein on the right bank!

 

First I thought it was Viking who where responsible but from the planning permission of the administration in Trier I have gathered it must be the endeavour by Gilles, a local excursion boat company. If I am correct, they have established a docking facility for both their excursion boats and river cruise ships. How this works in practice I am not sure.

 

Why Viking? Let us just say that they have a record of trying to establish docking facilities for their many ships on the Rhine and the fact that the first ship I spotted on vesselfinder was a Viking ship there on 27 May. Here is the screenshot to give you an idea of where it is:

Look to the right bank where the green dot marks the Viking Hild.

 

I will try and find out a bit more about the new place at Ehrenbreitstein and will post additional info and corrections if necessary.

 

The Rhine is a very busy river and three river cruise ships signalling at Koblenz is actually not much at all. I have seen six before...

 

This is also to give you an idea that some towns and cities on the Rhine are busy with river cruise ships. We have talked about this elsewhere before, but I will repeat that I think that there is at least one town that has reached capacity of what it should have: Rüdesheim.

 

It is the reason that I like companies looking for other towns and docking areas. And adding different itineraries, which can also be fun for river cruisers that come a second time.

 

There is so much to see along the Rhine with dozens of ports that may not be picture perfect but have enough going for them to warrant attention, sometimes for those with special interests. Like railways, history beyond castles, technical stuff, botanical and flowers, etc.

 

Zons has come more into focus recently, due to its proximity to Cologne; Neuwied may be an alternative for Koblenz docking. But such details will be put in another thread at some point.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[loriva]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:47 PM, notamermaid said:

AmaWaterways had the in my opinion brilliant idea a few years ago to move out to Lahnstein. A very successful endeavour for both town and company.

It looks like the Scenic Pearl is docked in Lahnstein now--by the indoor swimming pool.  The location is a 35-minute tram ride into the Old Town of Koblenz.  Instead of a quick stroll from the docking locations I see on the Moselle.  (The Pearl docked there when I was following its trip up the Rhine from Amsterdam.)  Guess it will give us a chance to see how that 9 Euro for all public transportation in Germany during the summer offer works!

[worldtraveller99]

Just an aside - I am looking at cruises for 2023 onwards. Scenic appears to charge £7,000 per person for a week's cruise? Do they give large discounts and how do you get this? Or do people pay that sort of money?

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, loriva said:

The location is a 35-minute tram ride into the Old Town of Koblenz. 

Interesting. It is Niederlahnstein KD landing stage, indeed near the indoor swimming pool. Small restaurant there. There is no tram in the area, that time would be the town bus. By train it is only 11 minutes.

 

Unusual stop really. It is not where AmaWaterways docks, those ships dock at Oberlahnstein which is close to the old town centre.

 

Cannot imagine it is a standard stop for Scenic. For that stop they should provide a shuttle into Koblenz.

 

There are many excursion boat landing stages that are suitable for large river cruise ships, most are designed for 110m ships, but some also allow the 135m ships.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Canal archive]

They could have driven in the Scenic tour coaches (buses). They used to have quite few along the Rhine.

[loriva]

14 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Interesting. It is Niederlahnstein KD landing stage, indeed near the indoor swimming pool. Small restaurant there. There is no tram in the area, that time would be the town bus. By train it is only 11 minutes.

 

Unusual stop really. It is not where AmaWaterways docks, those ships dock at Oberlahnstein which is close to the old town centre.

 

Cannot imagine it is a standard stop for Scenic. For that stop they should provide a shuttle into Koblenz.

 

There are many excursion boat landing stages that are suitable for large river cruise ships, most are designed for 110m ships, but some also allow the 135m ships.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

From the position of the Pearl now, it looks like the swimming pool stop may have just been for a quick dip and rest overnight.  Now the tracker is showing the ship docked at Rheinfähre Koblenz-Ehrenbreitstein.  That looks like a potential quick ferry ride across the Rhine.  Or the cable car from the Deutsches Eck to the fortress in Ehrenbreitstein and a walk through the fortress grounds back to the pier.  Could be fun!  (Just hope there is an under- or over-pass over the highway and the train tracks.  Google maps show a lot of small piers along the river there, so should be some way to access them.)

 

Maybe the story will change once on board, but when I asked about Scenic running shuttles using their coaches outside of set tour times they said there were none.  Not sure if that means they no longer have their own buses.  Since we cannot obtain definitive information, we need to plan to be on our own for transportation back to the ship.  (Plan for the worse, hope for the best!)

 

[notamermaid]

Ah, so Scenic is also already using the new landing stage at Ehrenbreitstein. I think it is a good new spot.

1 hour ago, loriva said:

That looks like a potential quick ferry ride across the Rhine. 

Yes, quick ferry across the river. Easy access via an underpass.

1 hour ago, loriva said:

Or the cable car from the Deutsches Eck to the fortress in Ehrenbreitstein and a walk through the fortress grounds back to the pier. 

Very steep, so not easy on the knees going down the hill, but manageable. Alternative is an inclined lift.

 

I highly recommend Ehrenbreitstein for the view.

 

4 hours ago, Canal archive said:

They could have driven in the Scenic tour coaches (buses). They used to have quite few along the Rhine.

As I understand it, companies may use their own coaches or locally sourced ones, meaning they use them short term or on a kind of cooperation basis. Which can mean they even have the company logo on them. It will vary.

 

The dock situation at Koblenz also shows that it is not straight forward, even on the Rhine with its towns being right there at the river bank. You can walk into town basically but the actual landing stage may be away from the sights. Two opposites are: Strasbourg and Koblenz.

 

Strasbourg - no dock in town, dock in general harbour or across the river in Germany (!) at Kehl,  the latter being definitely too far to walk unless you are into urban hiking.

 

Koblenz - dock on the Rhine and dock on the Moselle, step off the boat and you are in the old town.

 

By the way, it is interesting to look at the river cruise brochures. You will never see a photo of a river cruise ship docked in Strasbourg's old town (see above) and likewise never one docked at Nuremberg in the old town (Danube itinerary or Grand tour of Europe) as the town is not on the Danube but is served by the modern Canal and river cruise ships are out there at the industrial harbour.

 

But back to the good and the lovely. Where was I? Was it ferries? Or moated castles? I will pick up either subject again soon.  For now, the river levels:

Maxau 441cm

Kaub 156cm

Koblenz 150cm

 

A bit on the low side for commercial barges, but all good for river cruise ships.

 

notamermaid

 

[Second seating]

Zucchini noodles tossed in vinegar from Doktorenhof in Germany and grilled chicken for dinner tonight!

[notamermaid]

Thanks for the photos. Good souvenir and good use of it. And it brings images back from memory, doesn't it? I see you have plenty left for more dinners. @sbjornda Can you remember what the Casanova connection is?

 

notamermaid

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by notamermaid

[sbjornda]

On 5/29/2022 at 3:09 PM, worldtraveller99 said:

Do they give large discounts and how do you get this? Or do people pay that sort of money?

Those are the prices. There are incentives to book early and pay the full amount early, e.g. they will cover the cost of flights (coach class, up to a certain limit), and once you're on board you really can leave your wallet behind except for any local souvenirs you might want. Beverages, tipping, minibar, snacks are all covered. You pay extra for massages, haircuts, and some laundry (depending on cabin class), settling your on-board tab at the end of the cruise.

 

(One of the things that I find amusing is that according to the brochure, if you take the Salamanca excursion (on the Douro cruise) they even give you back 20 of your own Euros to buy your own lunch at your leisure, rather than making everyone sit down for a restaurant meal at the same time.) 

 

But yes, it is expensive and does require some budgeting for most of us. And given how expensive it is, the poor communication and customer care in the days/weeks leading up to the departure flight can be quite frustrating - though that all melts away once you're on board, I find. Once I'm on the sun deck with camera in one hand and martini in the other, watching the castles and vineyards and picturesque villages roll by, and the waiter says "Would you like another martini, sir?" - I'm in heaven. 

[sbjornda]

4 hours ago, notamermaid said:

 @sbjornda Can you remember what the Casanova connection is?

I vaguely recall that according to legend, Casanova created the recipe for this spiced vinegar to give him more stamina, to offer more of himself to his lovers. Apparently he had some medical training (18th century) and was not merely a pretty face. 🙂

 

But don't quote me; I may be wrong.

[worldtraveller99]

Thank you sbjornda. It sounds lovely, but I don't think my husband will pay those amounts, when other and perfectly lovely lines are cheaper. I am interested in Ama waterways, does anyone have experience of that?

[notamermaid]

35 minutes ago, sbjornda said:

Apparently he had some medical training (18th century)

Thank you. I have read about something like that. He was actually an intelligent person, beyond intelligence with the ladies. That fact is easily forgotten.

 

It is one of the more unusual excursions along the Rhine. Before I read about it hear on CC I would never have thought to go to such a place. There is so much more to vinegar than the small selection in a standard shop.

 

notamermaid

 

[sbjornda]

1 hour ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Thank you sbjornda. It sounds lovely, but I don't think my husband will pay those amounts, when other and perfectly lovely lines are cheaper.

Fair enough. Three things to keep an eye on, cost-wise, are: a) drinks, b) shore excursions, and c) tipping (including tipping your guide & bus driver on each shore excursion). If you go high-end on the drinks, take all the offered shore excursions, and give the recommended tips, the cost gap with the "all inclusive" lines narrows considerably. Additionally, for those of us traveling from farther away, Scenic offers some great air fare options when booking early. But I do understand the economics of reducing the up-front sticker shock and spreading out the rest of the costs in a more controlled fashion. 

 

And if you choose all-inclusive and don't take advantage of the inclusions, particularly the excursions (e.g. you want to do your own thing in a particular town, maybe you've been there before and have a favourite place) you're throwing money away. So you're doing the right thing by figuring out what's best for you and your traveling companion.

[Techno123]

6 hours ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Thank you sbjornda. It sounds lovely, but I don't think my husband will pay those amounts, when other and perfectly lovely lines are cheaper. I am interested in Ama waterways, does anyone have experience of that?

Try Avalon - we have just returned from a Rhine cruise and the prices were very reasonable. One included excursion each day, wine beer and soft drinks with lunch and dinner, tips included (at least for the Brits), tea, coffee and cookies all day, half price drinks from 5:45 to 6:45 in the bar and you can take your own drinks onboard and store in the minibar. We used EasyJet to Basel free public transport into the city from the airport and stayed in a hotel for a couple of nights and back from Amsterdam 11 euros on the train for both of us. We usually sail Seabourn/Regent and whilst it is not the same, I found it very good overall and thoroughly enjoyed it.

[worldtraveller99]

Thank you Techno123. Yes we have had a lovely River Main cruise with Avalon and would certainly use them again. I was just seeing what other lines may be like.

[Techno123]

4 minutes ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Thank you Techno123. Yes we have had a lovely River Main cruise with Avalon and would certainly use them again. I was just seeing what other lines may be like.

I would have a look at this year's pricing - it might just tempt you back 😜😜

[notamermaid]

Kaub gauge has gone down to 137cm, so again a bit too low for tankers and barges from a commercial standpoint.

 

But the weather is not hot and rain is in the air, so the trend is upwards towards the weekend and next week Kaub should reach 150cm again.

 

Lake Constance has not lost any centimetres of note of its level yet.

 

Now, ferries! Crossing the Lake is a bit of a longer journey than on the typical Rhine ferries, as you can imagine. But the ferry Konstanz to Meersburg crosses the smaller part of the Lake and is a fast reasonably large car ferry. It takes 15 minutes. This is also the area where Mainau island is located and the pile dwellings museum.

 

That museum is very special and for me another reason to explore the area some time.

 

This is the ferry: https://www.bodensee.eu/en/what-to-do/travelling-around-lake-constance/boat-trip/scheduled-boat-trips/lake-constance-car-ferry-constance---meersburg_poi2582

 

and here is a short drone flight to give you an impression what the pile dwellings are about:

https://www.dw.com/en/prehistoric-pile-dwellings/av-54103901

 

notamermaid

 

[LWFM]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:28 AM, notamermaid said:

Kaub gauge has gone down to 137cm, so again a bit too low for tankers and barges from a commercial standpoint.

 

But the weather is not hot and rain is in the air, so the trend is upwards towards the weekend and next week Kaub should reach 150cm again.

 

Lake Constance has not lost any centimetres of note of its level yet.

 

Now, ferries! Crossing the Lake is a bit of a longer journey than on the typical Rhine ferries, as you can imagine. But the ferry Konstanz to Meersburg crosses the smaller part of the Lake and is a fast reasonably large car ferry. It takes 15 minutes. This is also the area where Mainau island is located and the pile dwellings museum.

 

That museum is very special and for me another reason to explore the area some time.

 

This is the ferry: https://www.bodensee.eu/en/what-to-do/travelling-around-lake-constance/boat-trip/scheduled-boat-trips/lake-constance-car-ferry-constance---meersburg_poi2582

 

and here is a short drone flight to give you an impression what the pile dwellings are about:

https://www.dw.com/en/prehistoric-pile-dwellings/av-54103901

 

notamermaid

 

Thank you for taking the time to keep us updated regarding water levels and informed about interesting things to see and do in the Rhine Valley. We are leaving from Basel on 6/13 traveling to Amsterdam on AMAMora. Could you provide some insight regarding water levels for our trip? Hoping we will be able to sail all the way...

 

[notamermaid]

17 hours ago, LWFM said:

Thank you for taking the time to keep us updated regarding water levels and informed about interesting things to see and do in the Rhine Valley.

My pleasure. And always great to see posts from familiar names and new "faces" joining in. First of all, we have not had a single problematic day on the Rhine this year yet. It came close, though. By that I mean only as regards docking at a certain landing stage or being a bit slow negotiating the shallows. It needs to be way lower for a river cruise ship not to be able to sail.

 

Leaving 13 June - that is actually the day up to which we have a probability forecast for Kaub. 10 days brings us from 4 June 00.00 hours to 14 June 00.00 hours. As it is probability, there is no figure but a figure range. That most likely figure range is above 150cm. So, fine for sailing. It also means that the least likely figure is still above 100cm. Even if the probability is off and adjusted accordingly, we will still see no official low water. Overall, the level was low for May and is low for June now, which gives me just this slight feeling of unease about July, but I could be wrong if the overall weather pattern over the British Isles and beyond them to the West changes.

 

But for now, let me just give you the current figure: 132cm and

 

wish you a great river cruise.

 

notamermaid

 

[Jjg34219]

We just returned from our first river cruise, Basel to Amsterdam

Loved it!

Just wanted to say how much we appreciated the info we have gotten from this board