Tipping now more important than ever

[DirtyDawg]

42 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Luckily VAT is usually 20%. I have to work it out to add to prices where I am employed. Bit of a ball ache when it was 17.5%🤨

Dear KB's mum,

Great to know the 20% is easier for you and for all my fellow Brits.

That will make my change to 25% a breeze!

Yours, 

Boris.  

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by DirtyDawg

[LGW59]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:18 AM, glojo said:

Tipping is now more important than ever!!

 

A topic raised by one of the editors of Cruise Critic

 

I accept that tipping is a hot chesnut with both sides of the debate feeling they are right but..

 

Surely an editor should really be trying to improve the standard wage of those employees hired by agencies that treat their workers like cattle!!!  Why should tipping be more important now??

 

I say this because I have personal experience of knowing an excellent stewardess who had served on Cunard ships for thirty years and she was about to retire.

 

What pension will you get I naïvely asked?  We are all aware of the extraordinarily long hours they work and whether we agree or not with tipping, they do rely on tips\gratuities to make up their wage.  But what about a pension or even a farewell gift from the agency??

 

"There's the door close it on the way out!!!!"  Nothing... Zilch.  Not even a thank you and even though they work for a specific cruise line, that counts for nothing.

 

My point to this editor is should they not be vigorously campaigning for better pay for these agency workers??  Let's all try to shame the cruise industry into paying a fair days pay for a fair days work.  Campaign for the cruise industry to register with countries that support a minimum wage and employee protection legislation.  Disregard the rubbish about registering with certain countries so that a captain can perform weddings!!  Poppycock.

 

Let's see and hear the staff of this site getting vocal about the pay of the extremely hardworking members of the crew. do NOT put the onus on passengers to subsidise their poor pay, NO........  Let us see Carnival and EVERY other cruise line take on their books every crew member serving on their ships.

 

Let us put the onus on the cruise line to pay these workers a decent wage instead of relying on passengers to subsidise the wages of these dedicated, hard working agency workers.

 

Suffice it to say I disagree with the point raised by CruiseCritic

 

regards

John     

They are not treated like cattle.  They knowingly take a job as to what the wages are, that there will be long hours, she stayed for 30 years so must of been something she liked about it.  Yes they should be tipped, I know a hot topic, but I still believe they should, personal decision of course.

[KBs mum]

1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

Dear KB's mum,

Great to know the 20% is easier for you and for all my fellow Brits.

That will make my change to 25% a breeze!

Yours, 

Boris.  

 

Sorry to dissapoint, but I don't get involved in political discussions with randoms on social media 

[DirtyDawg]

31 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Sorry to dissapoint, but I don't get involved in political discussions with randoms on social media 

No worries.

It was just a joke. 

 

I thought 'Yours, Boris' would negate the need for a 😁 or a 😉.

😉😁😇

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Which conveniently obscures the amount the government takes out of your pocket.  Oh, people know it is there, but that is not like seeing how much it is on every single purchase.

 

VAT is not hidden it is clearly listed on the receipt. And even if you don't take your receipts it is pretty easy to calculate as it one standard rate. What is with the conspiracy thinking 😳? 

[Peter Lanky]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

Mr Joe Public is responsible for the entire amount.  It is just how it gets into the employee's pocket that seems to be your issue.  

Threat of violence?  Come on now.  

 

I have felt under threat on a couple of occasions. I have spoken to others who have experienced similar.

 

As longs as it's the employer that puts the money in the employee's pocket, I'm happy.

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, Mike981 said:

You can't even go by state taxes. Every municipality in my state can set there own tax rates. Cross the street it can be higher or lower.

 

I kind of suspected that. I thought I could calculate the tax rate from our receipt and of course that rate didn't work on our next shopping trip. It turned all our shopping had different rates so I figured it must be more convoluted than I first thought. 

[CPT Trips]

46 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

VAT is not hidden it is clearly listed on the receipt. And even if you don't take your receipts it is pretty easy to calculate as it one standard rate. What is with the conspiracy thinking 😳? 

Conspiracy thinking is quite prevalent amongst certain of my countrymen, particularly those tax opponents. 
At times it seems they want to go back before the days of paved roads, interstate highways, and the dams that assure the electricity and the water needed to live a modern comfortable life in a hot arid climate. 

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, KBs mum said:

...

 

What is really nonsensical to us is that US people will pre pay the gratuities and then hand out cash on board, so tipping twice for the same thing. Can understand a one off gift of cash to an individual in these circumstances, but some seem to tip everyone on top of the gratuities

You ignore the point: the automatically added  "gratuities" are intended to pay for the EXPECTED good service -- that is why a passenger can reduce/remove them if service falls below the EXPECTED level.  Any additional cash handed out is intended to reward for service above and beyond the EXPECTED level.

 

Of course, folks from an economy/society which does not believe in the concept of incentive pay (the better the job performance -- the better the pay) will have a hard time understanding the concept of tipping.

Edited February 14, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[LGW59]

12 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

 

Of all the people who do unskilled work, which despite being unskilled is also important, I don't understand why you believe waiters and similar occupations are worth so much more. There are so many vital jobs that simply do not have the opportunity to increase their earnings beyond minimum wage, as they have no public contact. So yes, waiters etc can earn good money, but personally they are not worth any more than any other minimum wage job. Just because a few people like a certain practice doesn't mean it's right, especially as I and others have said before, it completely distorts the economy of a country, and when I visit such countries, I don't want a rabble of porters trying to tear my suitcase out of my hand and then demanding money with menaces for me to get it back. Thankfully at home, we only tend to have porters in very expensive hotels that I don't use.

Pretty easy to follow the customs in any country we visit, I know I do.  You come to the US follow the customs as I do whenever I visit any country in Europe.  Cruise crew depend on tips, cash tips, over and above the pre-paid, do you remove them once on board?  Can't imagine a porter trying to tear a suitcase out of ones hands, way to much drama from you.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, LGW59 said:

Pretty easy to follow the customs in any country we visit, I know I do.  You come to the US follow the customs as I do whenever I visit any country in Europe.  Cruise crew depend on tips, cash tips, over and above the pre-paid, do you remove them once on board?  Can't imagine a porter trying to tear a suitcase out of ones hands, way to much drama from you.

If you review previous posts, plus the fact that he does not like "posh places" or Michelin-recognized establishments, or many other things which he describes as pretentious, you will realize that he has problems which go far beyond a simple dislike of tipping.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I kind of suspected that. I thought I could calculate the tax rate from our receipt and of course that rate didn't work on our next shopping trip. It turned all our shopping had different rates so I figured it must be more convoluted than I first thought. 

Yes, in addition to state taxes, there are county taxes. And in some counties in my state, there is an additional tax for the MTA (Metropolitan Transit Authority). And then in my state, clothing is taxed by the counties, but not the state unless over a certain amount. Though in general you can see the tax on a receipt. Where I live, you will see the tax at 8% (state and county) and 4%, just county listed separately.

[LGW59]

4 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

 

I have felt under threat on a couple of occasions. I have spoken to others who have experienced similar.

 

As longs as it's the employer that puts the money in the employee's pocket, I'm happy.

Under "threat" from whom?

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course, folks from an economy/society which does not believe in the concept of incentive pay (the better the job performance -- the better the pay) will have a hard time understanding the concept of tipping.

 

I think you're misunderstanding the objection. No one is saying that better performance should not get better pay, it is just that for most countries the incentivising comes from the employer not the customer. The USA is unique in that it places such huge responsibility of financial incentivising on the customer rather than the employer.

 

When I get above and beyond service I like tell whoever is in charge about their great employee so they know exactly who and why I appreciated their service as I want the employer to value the staff that made the experience so great. When ever I leave a tip I'm always wondering does the employer know how good their staff is or why I'm leaving this tip🤔. 

[Peter Lanky]

8 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Pretty easy to follow the customs in any country we visit, I know I do.  You come to the US follow the customs as I do whenever I visit any country in Europe.  Cruise crew depend on tips, cash tips, over and above the pre-paid, do you remove them once on board?  Can't imagine a porter trying to tear a suitcase out of ones hands, way to much drama from you.

 

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

If you review previous posts, plus the fact that he does not like "posh places" or Michelin-recognized establishments, or many other things which he describes as pretentious, you will realize that he has problems which go far beyond a simple dislike of tipping.

 

5 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Under "threat" from whom?

 

Please do not pretend that you know anything about me, or what I have experienced on travels. It seems many people are only able to judge a situation from their own experience of it in a 'I've never seen it so it doesn't happen' attitude. I also think I am quite justified in considering being served a meal like this as being pretentious (The image is copied and pasted, but I have been served similar silly dishes).

Edited February 14, 2022 by Peter Lanky

[Peter Lanky]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

You ignore the point: the automatically added  "gratuities" are intended to pay for the EXPECTED good service -- that is why a passenger can reduce/remove them if service falls below the EXPECTED level.  Any additional cash handed out is intended to reward for service above and beyond the EXPECTED level.

 

Of course, folks from an economy/society which does not believe in the concept of incentive pay (the better the job performance -- the better the pay) will have a hard time understanding the concept of tipping.

If it's EXPECTED, then why does the cost need to be separated from the rest of the cruise cost? I EXPECT the officers not to sink the ship, or EXPECT port staff to ensure they load enough fuel for the journey, but I don't see a supplement for these added onto the price, because it's a standard part of being on a cruise just like serving food and cleaning rooms is.

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

You ignore the point: the automatically added  "gratuities" are intended to pay for the EXPECTED good service -- that is why a passenger can reduce/remove them if service falls below the EXPECTED level.  Any additional cash handed out is intended to reward for service above and beyond the EXPECTED level.

 

Of course, folks from an economy/society which does not believe in the concept of incentive pay (the better the job performance -- the better the pay) will have a hard time understanding the concept of tipping.

Exactly this. It isn't complicated and involves no math at all. The cruise line has a recommended amount that is added to ones account, including an automatic gratuity for drinks. That covers all of the tipped staff. People are motivated by money (including, evidently, choosing a non-skilled career over a skilled one in some cases). As for the auto-gratuities charged by a cruise line- that is the result of too many people failing to tip the staff. So if someone thinks that they will change the system because they aren't leaving a tip they will- just not in the way they expected.

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think you're misunderstanding the objection. No one is saying that better performance should not get better pay, it is just that for most countries the incentivising comes from the employer not the customer. The USA is unique in that it places such huge responsibility of financial incentivising on the customer rather than the employer.

 

When I get above and beyond service I like tell whoever is in charge about their great employee so they know exactly who and why I appreciated their service as I want the employer to value the staff that made the experience so great. When ever I leave a tip I'm always wondering does the employer know how good their staff is or why I'm leaving this tip🤔. 

There is nothing saying that one can't do both.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Peter Lanky said:

If it's EXPECTED, then why does the cost need to be separated from the rest of the cruise cost? I EXPECT the officers not to sink the ship, or EXPECT port staff to ensure they load enough fuel for the journey, but I don't see a supplement for these added onto the price, because it's a standard part of being on a cruise just like serving food and cleaning rooms is.

Sometimes we just have to accept what is because it is outside of our control. You chose to cruise on cruise lines that include the tip so you have already done what you can, you are voting with your cruise dollar. Why does every company have to do things the exact same way? That limits consumer choice. 

[Peter Lanky]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

Exactly this. It isn't complicated and involves no math at all. The cruise line has a recommended amount that is added to ones account, including an automatic gratuity for drinks. That covers all of the tipped staff. People are motivated by money (including, evidently, choosing a non-skilled career over a skilled one in some cases). As for the auto-gratuities charged by a cruise line- that is the result of too many people failing to tip the staff. So if someone thinks that they will change the system because they aren't leaving a tip they will- just not in the way they expected.

 

[sparks1093]

23 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

 

Indeed. It applies both ways.

Edited February 14, 2022 by sparks1093

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

There is nothing saying that one can't do both.

 

I never suggested it can't be. My response was more about the implication that if a place has no tipping culture it means workers have no financial incentive to improve. I just wanted to point out that in those no or less reliant tipping cultures that financial incentives do exist but it comes from a different source; the employer. The idea that tips are the only financial incentive that leads to good service in my experience is erroneous because for me the consistant quality of services in tipping countries and non tipping are pretty much comparable. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, Peter Lanky said:

 

 

 

Unfortunately Peter many people from the States think that their tipping culture is the only correct way and the rest of the world is incorrect. Arguing about it is akin to banging your head on a brick wall, painful and nothing is achieved. Best let the argument go.

[sparks1093]

25 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

Unfortunately Peter many people from the States think that their tipping culture is the only correct way and the rest of the world is incorrect. Arguing about it is akin to banging your head on a brick wall, painful and nothing is achieved. Best let the argument go.

 I can only speak for myself but tipping obviously isn't the only correct way to compensate employees but where it is in use as long as it is working for the employer and the employee who am I to say different? I do my part, regardless of what my personal feeling are in the matter. One way or another what the employee receives comes out of my pocket and I'm not overly concerned with the way it gets there.

[Peter Lanky]

1 hour ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

Unfortunately Peter many people from the States think that their tipping culture is the only correct way and the rest of the world is incorrect. Arguing about it is akin to banging your head on a brick wall, painful and nothing is achieved. Best let the argument go.

 

I've finally conceded that. I put in a good case but the jury couldn't agree 😇