CDC adjusts warnings

[mfs2k]

7 hours ago, Virginia100 said:

The problem with tests, especially the PCR is they don’t accurately verity that the level of virus present is sufficient for easy transmission. Several medical experts actually think the rapid antigen test is the best as when you are positive they are fairly sure your level is high enough to transmit the virus. The PCR test can be very sensitive and result in a positive test but where there is not enough virus to be transmitted. Just because you are positive doesn’t mean you can transmit. It isn’t that simple though people like simple answers. The PCR test is not the end all.

I agree with this post 100%. Until PCR indicates viral load, a positive test isn’t very helpful in an asymptotic person. 

[RichYak]

12 hours ago, sippican said:

Degree of sickness equates to how contagious you are?

Of course. Here are various quotes from the CDC's quarantine guidance web page:

 

"If you have no symptoms or your symptoms are resolving after 5 days, you can leave your house."

"If you have a fever, continue to stay home until your fever resolves."

"If you develop symptoms get a test and stay home."

[RichYak]

22 hours ago, TeeRick said:

If we have to have testing continue, switch back to the 3 day test window to allow the timing for PCR tests.  

If the point of the pre-cruise test is to reduce spread, then I disagree. The rapid antigen test is a better indicator of being contagious than the PCR test. I mean, you can even board now with a positive PCR test if you have a certificate of recovery.

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, RichYak said:

If the point of the pre-cruise test is to reduce spread, then I disagree. The rapid antigen test is a better indicator of being contagious than the PCR test. I mean, you can even board now with a positive PCR test if you have a certificate of recovery.

@RichYak the spread from infected,  asymptomatic individuals is well known and highly documented.   It has happened on cruises from the Quarantine/ Isolation and contact tracing reports here on CC, particularly with highly infectious versions like Omicron  and its sub-variant around.    So I am saying that Antigen tests are effective but they sometimes miss the early and/or asymptomatic infections on a cruise.  I would actually prefer no pre-cruise testing in the future as the virus becomes endemic.  Just live and cruise with it if we are Up To Date with our vaccines.  That should be enough.   

[WonderMan3]

16 hours ago, Virginia100 said:

The problem with tests, especially the PCR is they don’t accurately verity that the level of virus present is sufficient for easy transmission. Several medical experts actually think the rapid antigen test is the best as when you are positive they are fairly sure your level is high enough to transmit the virus. The PCR test can be very sensitive and result in a positive test but where there is not enough virus to be transmitted. Just because you are positive doesn’t mean you can transmit. It isn’t that simple though people like simple answers. The PCR test is not the end all.

If you're positive through a PCR test you shouldn't be going anywhere, cruise or otherwise. End of.

[WonderMan3]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

@RichYak the spread from infected,  asymptomatic individuals is well known and highly documented.   It has happened on cruises from the Quarantine/ Isolation and contact tracing reports here on CC, particularly with highly infectious versions like Omicron  and its sub-variant around.    So I am saying that Antigen tests are effective but they sometimes miss the early and/or asymptomatic infections on a cruise.  I would actually prefer no pre-cruise testing in the future as the virus becomes endemic.  Just live and cruise with it if we are Up To Date with our vaccines.  That should be enough.   

We're not there yet though despite what the self-anointed medical professionals in this thread say. The virus continues to mutate into new variants that remain highly contagious and  are often still a bear to deal with if you get it (deadly possibly if you're not vaccinated). New outbreak waves are still possible especially by this summer as we see booster effectiveness and immunity from having had the virus start to wane. Until we reach a point that this thing truly turns into something more manageable like a standard flu or even better the common cold (which could possibly happen within the next year) we need to remain cautious. And when I say that I don't mean life needs to stop as some here like to imply that those of expressing caution are saying. What I mean is that we need to be prepared at any moment to implement masking, social distance, vaccine mandates and testing requirements when we see an outbreak starting again but that doesn't mean any or all of those things need to be applied ongoing all the time everywhere.

[Guppy99]

9 hours ago, mfs2k said:

I agree with this post 100%. Until PCR indicates viral load, a positive test isn’t very helpful in an asymptotic person. 

A positive test should be assumed to be able to be transmitted whether your symptoms are mild, moderate, or severe. You may be spreading this to another person who will not react as well to the infection. such incredibly short memories. 

[RichYak]

2 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

If you're positive through a PCR test you shouldn't be going anywhere, cruise or otherwise. End of.

Sorry, this is a completely misinformed statement that completely ignores any science or common sense.

[D C]

4 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

If you're positive through a PCR test you shouldn't be going anywhere, cruise or otherwise. End of.

We know far better than that. Even celebrity agrees that a positive pcr isn't sufficient to prevent you from cruising. 

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

We're not there yet though despite what the self-anointed medical professionals in this thread say. The virus continues to mutate into new variants that remain highly contagious and  are often still a bear to deal with if you get it (deadly possibly if you're not vaccinated). New outbreak waves are still possible especially by this summer as we see booster effectiveness and immunity from having had the virus start to wane. Until we reach a point that this thing truly turns into something more manageable like a standard flu or even better the common cold (which could possibly happen within the next year) we need to remain cautious. And when I say that I don't mean life needs to stop as some here like to imply that those of expressing caution are saying. What I mean is that we need to be prepared at any moment to implement masking, social distance, vaccine mandates and testing requirements when we see an outbreak starting again but that doesn't mean any or all of those things need to be applied ongoing all the time everywhere.

Some of the posters are actually not self-anointed medical professionals and just might have an advanced degree or two.  Of course it is anonymous so you will have to guess who they are by their responses.  But in reality there is no reason really to listen to anybody here.  It is just conversation from people who enjoy cruising.  You can scroll by if you wish.   I am of the opinion that we are turning the corner and getting to that more manageable state  and people will need to adjust their thinking from panic mode to living with the virus mode.  We have very effective vaccines, anti-viral drugs, and medical protocols.  A long way from March 2020.  We should be fine cruising on Celebrity and other lines with being Up To Date and being smart and cautious when we need to be.

[WonderMan3]

22 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Some of the posters are actually not self-anointed medical professionals and just might have an advanced degree or two.  Of course it is anonymous so you will have to guess who they are by their responses.  But in reality there is no reason really to listen to anybody here.  It is just conversation from people who enjoy cruising.  You can scroll by if you wish.   I am of the opinion that we are turning the corner and getting to that more manageable state  and people will need to adjust their thinking from panic mode to living with the virus mode.  We have very effective vaccines, anti-viral drugs, and medical protocols.  A long way from March 2020.  We should be fine cruising on Celebrity and other lines with being Up To Date and being smart and cautious when we need to be.

News sources all over the past few days have been talking the possibility of another surge here in the States due to surges happening in other parts of the world including Europe (which is usually the precursor to our next surge). People should be prepared that if another surge happens that testing/mask/vaccine requirements may return in a variety of areas including cruising and that shouldn’t then necessitate another unceasing round of posts here complaining about masking and testing or the buffet not being self-serve and on and on. Being aware of what is changing with this pandemic is not “panicking” it is staying alert and informed. Just because people are acting like this pandemic is over doesn’t mean it actually is. And feel free to scroll by my posts as well since you clearly seem bothered for some reason even though my comments were not actually directed at you.

[TeeRick]

7 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

News sources all over the past few days have been talking the possibility of another surge here in the States due to surges happening in other parts of the world including Europe (which is usually the precursor to our next surge). People should be prepared that if another surge happens that testing/mask/vaccine requirements may return in a variety of areas including cruising and that shouldn’t then necessitate another unceasing round of posts here complaining about masking and testing or the buffet not being self-serve and on and on. Being aware of what is changing with this pandemic is not “panicking” it is staying alert and informed. Just because people are acting like this pandemic is over doesn’t mean it actually is. And feel free to scroll by my posts as well since you clearly seem bothered for some reason even though my comments were not actually directed at you.

I like your posts and would never scroll past them.  I am not bothered by your comments.  As I said in my last sentence, we should be Up To Date, Smart and Cautious.  I think that is also what you are saying.  Yes there will be new variants and continued waves.  But I am saying it is time to accept that and live with it as part of life going forward if at all possible.  

[Guppy99]

20 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Some of the posters are actually not self-anointed medical professionals and just might have an advanced degree or two.  Of course it is anonymous so you will have to guess who they are by their responses.  But in reality there is no reason really to listen to anybody here.  It is just conversation from people who enjoy cruising.  You can scroll by if you wish.   I am of the opinion that we are turning the corner and getting to that more manageable state  and people will need to adjust their thinking from panic mode to living with the virus mode.  We have very effective vaccines, anti-viral drugs, and medical protocols.  A long way from March 2020.  We should be fine cruising on Celebrity and other lines with being Up To Date and being smart and cautious when we need to be.

Of course this is all exactly true and sane. I believe what makes people angry (including myself) is when people decide they know better than what is being recommended to the public, so as to ensure the public safety for all.  There are still individuals who refuse to be vaccinated. There are so many that when masks were (and are) required, either refuse or fail to cover their nose.  People who bitterly complain about any little inconvenience, for the public good, they have to endure.  Those that fail to understand that this is a worldwide event, with every country experiencing different stages and problems because of their health care system and legal system.  And more directly for those here, how much they expect and demand of the cruise lines, no matter that they are a business struggling to survive the interruption in business. Finally, how they are indignant about having to pay the nominal fees for tests and travel authorizations, intended to keep them and others safe.  People are so self-centered. They think if they have been vaccinated , they are no longer personally in danger, so therefore, those inconvenience and struggles mentioned above no longer should apply.

That's why these discussions are heated. 

[WonderMan3]

Just now, TeeRick said:

I like your posts and would never scroll past them.  I am not bothered by your comments.  As I said in my last sentence, we should be Up To Date, Smart and Cautious.  I think that is also what you are saying.  Yes there will be new variants and continued waves.  But I am saying it is time to accept that and live with it as part of life going forward if at all possible.  

I think the problem is what some of us view as “living with it”, which is accepting that there may be periods of time when we have to revert to wearing masks or taking tests or showing proof of vaccination, (I think you and I would be on the same page there) is not the same as others who basically have viewed this virus as being done regardless of whether new variants emerge or we see another surge with massive amounts of people getting sick again. Of course we seem to be a country that lives in two different realities for pretty much everything nowadays so why not a viral pandemic too…sigh…

[canderson]

47 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

News sources all over the past few days have been talking the possibility of another surge here in the States due to surges happening in other parts of the world including Europe (which is usually the precursor to our next surge). People should be prepared that if another surge happens that testing/mask/vaccine requirements may return in a variety of areas ...

If "case count" is the primary metric used to make policy decisions, then I'm afraid you are correct, and that will be unfortunate.

 

Even Fauci recently admits regarding the BA.2 variant, "The overall mortality is actually down. It’s a very interesting situation where the cases are going up, but it does not, at this point in time, appear to be any degree of severity."

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, canderson said:

If "case count" is the primary metric used to make policy decisions, then I'm afraid you are correct, and that will be unfortunate.

 

Even Fauci recently admits regarding the BA.2 variant, "The overall mortality is actually down. It’s a very interesting situation where the cases are going up, but it does not, at this point in time, appear to be any degree of severity."

Like the flu, we are now learning to live with it, moving on with our lives, taking precautions as needed, when needed, making decisions as to our own comfort level.

Edited March 19, 2022 by LGW59

[D C]

4 hours ago, canderson said:

If "case count" is the primary metric used to make policy decisions, then I'm afraid you are correct, and that will be unfortunate.

 

Even Fauci recently admits regarding the BA.2 variant, "The overall mortality is actually down. It’s a very interesting situation where the cases are going up, but it does not, at this point in time, appear to be any degree of severity."

"cases" really don't matter and there has been a lot of movement towards focusing on severe cases and hospitalizations instead. Plus severe cases are primarily among the unvaccinated.  

[canderson]

4 minutes ago, D C said:

"cases" really don't matter and there has been a lot of movement towards focusing on severe cases and hospitalizations instead. Plus severe cases are primarily among the unvaccinated.  

Fully agree.  Unfortunately, in that same interview, Fauci said "...we need to be ready, if necessary, to pivot back and maybe pull in a little bit more of the masking, if in fact we start getting a surge. But that really is unpredictable right now.”  His 'surge' referred to an increase in cases, not outcomes.

 

Have to wonder which metric the cruise lines will be looking at to make their decisions.

 

[Cruising89143]

My two cents on the pre cruise testing. Example: We cruised on the Navigator of the Seas a few weeks ago. Our cruise was a four night cruise out of San Pedro (Los Angeles) that left on a Monday. We tested Saturday morning. 
 

On Sunday morning (day prior to cruise) we drove to Disneyland and spent about six hours in a very packed park. Masks were optional in the parks. We had lunch in a packed restaurant with zero social distancing with the tables. We left and drove to our hotel and later decided to have dinner at the restaurant next door. We took the only available table. Again, packed with tables not socially distanced. After arriving back at the hotel we decided to have a few post dinner cocktails at the bar. Again, no social distancing with bar stools at the bar. 
 

So in the end we tested two days prior to satisfy their boarding policy but I gave you three good examples of where we could have easily been exposed to the virus “after” testing and before the cruise. Yes pre testing might catch a few who would have boarded sick or positiive but since symptoms can show up a few days later, we could have brought the virus on board “after” being tested. This same scenario repeats itself many times over with guests who come in a day or more before their cruise. IMHO, require full vaccination and do away with the testing. 
 

 

[Guppy99]

1 hour ago, cruisingator2 said:

My two cents on the pre cruise testing. Example: We cruised on the Navigator of the Seas a few weeks ago. Our cruise was a four night cruise out of San Pedro (Los Angeles) that left on a Monday. We tested Saturday morning. 
 

On Sunday morning (day prior to cruise) we drove to Disneyland and spent about six hours in a very packed park. Masks were optional in the parks. We had lunch in a packed restaurant with zero social distancing with the tables. We left and drove to our hotel and later decided to have dinner at the restaurant next door. We took the only available table. Again, packed with tables not socially distanced. After arriving back at the hotel we decided to have a few post dinner cocktails at the bar. Again, no social distancing with bar stools at the bar. 
 

So in the end we tested two days prior to satisfy their boarding policy but I gave you three good examples of where we could have easily been exposed to the virus “after” testing and before the cruise. Yes pre testing might catch a few who would have boarded sick or positiive but since symptoms can show up a few days later, we could have brought the virus on board “after” being tested. This same scenario repeats itself many times over with guests who come in a day or more before their cruise. IMHO, require full vaccination and do away with the testing. 
 

 

You don't mention the people who tested positive and never boarded because testing was required!!!

[canderson]

28 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

You don't mention the people who tested positive and never boarded because testing was required!!!

That's clearly because he's explaining the many other possible scenarios whereby one COULD be positive when boarding.  

[Guppy99]

29 minutes ago, canderson said:

That's clearly because he's explaining the many other possible scenarios whereby one COULD be positive when boarding.  

I understood him fine.

Testing is required because being vaccinated is not sufficient to ensure you do not contract the disease and then pass it along. Prevention is a multi-prong process. 

[Ken the cruiser]

2 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

I understood him fine.

Testing is required because being vaccinated is not sufficient to ensure you do not contract the disease and then pass it along. Prevention is a multi-prong process. 

Just curious, have you been on a cruise yet since it started back up in June?

[Bluewake]

As a society, we seem to have achieved nearly 100% herd immunity from the malady of modifying our political points of view or our activating beliefs about covid.  Very very few people seem susceptible to contracting "perspective change" on either matter despite being exposed to those who think differently.   And, to think we accomplished that without a vaccine!

[runningtide]

My two cents from a different perspective. Most people on this forum expressing their opinions may have an underlying issue. They simply miss the fun of planning and dreaming of their next cruise. Now sadly, it’s more of a logistic exercise, that in truth really takes a lot of the enjoyment out of cruising. Last September , while delta had ramped up, my Linda and I were about a month away from a cruise, sitting  at a waterside bar in Annapolis, talking about sudden changes again  of testing requirements, port restrictions, mask mandates, etc., and Linda looked at me and said, this isn’t fun anymore.

We cancelled the trip the next day. 

We both hope that we can soon get back to the “fun” reasons we all love cruising. 
 

All the best…….See you on the next tack !