CDC adjusts warnings

[Ken the cruiser]

29 minutes ago, highway180 said:

But what if it was YOU who unintentionally spread it.......so then it's their problem???

piss poor attitude Ken, as anything is possible with this virus  . We need to stop judging people we hardly know......period

 

this thread should've been locked a long time ago

JMHO

Not sure how we would have unintentionally spread it since we haven’t been infected with C19 since this whole pandemic started. But, yes, it would be their problem as they didn’t try to avoid us.
 

But, then, we don’t hang out in the Martini Bar or any other lounge on the ship or lounge around at the pool on sea days like many others do on the cruise. When we’re on an excursion, we sit in the back of the bus and walk in the back of the pack when we’re on a group excursion, and of course, wear a mask.

 

As far as having a piss poor attitude, all I did was give suggestions on ways we employ to improve our chances of not catching a virus while we’re on a cruise.
 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Ken the cruiser

[Virginia100]

4 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Not sure how we would have unintentionally spread it since we haven’t been infected with C19 since this whole pandemic started. But, yes, it would be their problem as they didn’t try to avoid us.
 

But, then, we don’t hang out in the Martini Bar or any other lounge on the ship or lounge around at the pool on sea days like many others do on the cruise. When we’re on an excursion, we sit in the back of the bus and walk in the back of the pack when we’re on a group excursion. 

 

As far as having a piss poor attitude, all I did was give suggestions on ways we employ to improve our chances of not catching a virus while we’re on a cruise.
 

 

Oh-oh!!! I love the Martini bar. But with 30-40% capacity I wonder how crowded it gets. As I remember there are always chairs to sit beside the Martini Bar if not incline to sit next to anyone at the bar, on the ice.

[Guppy99]

42 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 Not sure how we would have unintentionally spread it since we haven’t been infected with C19 since this whole pandemic started. But, yes, it would be their problem as they didn’t try to avoid us.
 

 

Absolutely unbelievable.  Still surprises me how astoundingly self-centered people can be.

[Ken the cruiser]

46 minutes ago, Virginia100 said:

Oh-oh!!! I love the Martini bar. But with 30-40% capacity I wonder how crowded it gets. As I remember there are always chairs to sit beside the Martini Bar if not incline to sit next to anyone at the bar, on the ice.

You should be fine. We’re just over cautious. But it helps that my DW doesn’t drink and I only stop by the nearest lounge to get my triple Baileys on the way to the show. 

[WonderMan3]

4 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Then those folks shouldn't go on a cruise. However, if they choose to do so, they should think about doing what we do when we've gone on our 4 Celebrity cruises totaling 72 days without getting infected with any form of virus since cruising started back up.

 

In essence we treat moving around the ship like a game. Hey, what can I say, we're on a cruise and having fun is what it's all about, right? 😎

 

Dining: On our first visit to our dining room, my DW makes sure the hostess and/or maitre 'd know that if at all possible we would like an empty table next to us while dining and are also very willing to sit at the most undesirable table they have. But, in order to be able to do that, we always try to come when the dining room, especially in the evening, first opens. It's amazing how accommodating they can be when you don't care what (non-window) table you sit at.

 

Elevators: We're in our late 60s and are still able to use the stairs whenever feasible. But if we have to walk up 4+ flights of stairs, especially after a meal, we'll take the elevator with our masks on. Now, if either unmasked or 3 or more passengers decide to enter the elevator on an in-between floor, we get off there and walk up the rest of the way. 

 

Main theater: When we first board and are exploring the ship, we head to the main theater and develop a strategy as to where we will sit using knowledge from past cruises if possible. On a Celebrity ship, the theaters have 3-4 levels and have a U-shaped design, so it's pretty easy to develop multiple out-of-the-way seating options. Now, on a Princess ship, their theater seating takes a little more creative thinking. But, of course, that's all part of the game to make adjustments when necessary.

 

Downtime: We always get a balcony and try to determine which cabin location will produce the most shade during the cruise, especially in the afternoon. Hanging out with a bunch of people near the pool is just not something we would do. 

 

Reducing stress by walking in underutilized spaces: When we first get on the ship, we also check out where the entrances to the promenade walkways are and use them, when necessary, in a crowded situation when we need to get from one end of the ship to another. If not an option, we will use the nearby stairs, walk up a flight or two, and then walk through a cabin hallway to get to the other end of the ship.

 

But, most importantly, we treat it like a game as we've enjoyed not getting sick on/or after a cruise for many years now. Of course, we also have no desire to mess up our cruise by getting quarantined, either by getting C19 or being traced, as we usually are on cruises that are at least 2-3+ weeks long.

 

The bottom line is that it's up to YOU to keep yourself safe and not worry about the variety of personalities that will be on the ship cruising with you and what they will do. If they catch C19, that's their problem, not ours. We did everything we could to avoid other passengers whenever possible on the ship or while on an excursion. 

Thank you for sharing. Those are useful strategies. The dining is one of the key problems for me but you provided some helpful tips. Dining late might also help in getting a less crowded venue. We are in suites (Royal for one, Penthouse for the other two) for our cruises next year so we are also prepared to dine in our cabin if Covid is still in the same state it’s in now. That of course is a luxury in of itself so not necessarily a negative but we really do enjoy the experience of dining in Luminae. We’ll have to see how the next year goes but we are really itching to cruise again.

[RichYak]

20 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

We’ll have to see how the next year goes but we are really itching to cruise again.

I distinctly remember the moment my wife and I reached that comfort level to be able to cruise again. You will get there too, I hope sooner rather than later. Cheers!

[Ken the cruiser]

6 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

Thank you for sharing. Those are useful strategies. The dining is one of the key problems for me but you provided some helpful tips. Dining late might also help in getting a less crowded venue. We are in suites (Royal for one, Penthouse for the other two) for our cruises next year so we are also prepared to dine in our cabin if Covid is still in the same state it’s in now. That of course is a luxury in of itself so not necessarily a negative but we really do enjoy the experience of dining in Luminae. We’ll have to see how the next year goes but we are really itching to cruise again.

Thanks! Hopefully the pandemic will have been seriously downgraded by the time you cruise next year.
 

But in any event when we were on the Edge (E class) in a SS in August, when Delta was peaking with around 900 passengers on each leg, we dined at table #2 for the last 19 days of our B3B (breakfast, lunch and dinner). Basically, tables #1 and 2 are to the left as you enter the Luminae dining area. Both tables are isolated, but one of you will have a great view of the entire dining area.
 

When we were on the Constellation (M class) in a SS Dec 13-23 with only 411 passengers onboard, we had our daughters with us so we were at a table for 4 and believe it or not the Luminae was packed every night, so I have no suggestions.
 

However, on the Reflection (S class) with around 1500 passengers onboard on both legs we always sat in the back section and there was always plenty of tables to social distance as most folks were seated in the front section, which is the area that is visible when you enter the dining area.

 

Have a great cruise!!

[talljules1]

I think this is an interesting conundrum, and one I am not sure I yet have straight in my own mind. 

 

We're fully vaccinated, and we never stopped wearing masks.  We did a Seacation cruise on the Silhouette last July, and it's fair to say we felt safer on the ship than we did at home.  We found wearing masks to be no issue - it didn't hamper our enjoyment.  We took the medical-grade surgical masks we have been using since just before that cruise. (Before then we used cloth masks - as can be seen in my profile pic.  That pic was taken with no one else around, and was the last time I wore that mask before switching to surgical grade). We will be taking them with us this year.  Whilst they offer more protection to those around the wearer than they do to the wearer, they nonetheless afford the wearer some protection.  No way of avoiding COVID is perfect, so we layer our protections - good hand hygiene, distancing, masks, vaccines. We take the steps we can to reduce our own risks whilst still having a life, and happily these also reduce the risks we might unwittingly pose for those around us.

 

We are still in the pandemic.  And whilst the likelihood is that we would be either asymptomatic or have mild symptoms rather than dying, those are not the only choices.  Long COVID is a real thing and can be debilitating. We take the view that living with COVID does not mean pretending it has gone away (because it really hasn't - and cases and hospitalisations are rising again in the UK).

 

We have three cruises booked this year, and currently still hope to be on them. We welcome any vaccination and pre-boarding testing requirements. We will continue to wear masks when indoors (but we spend a lot of our time outdoors), and will continue to socially distance where possible. This worked well for us on our cruise in July 2021.

 

You'll notice that at no point here have I suggested what anyone else should do.  We'll respect and work with your choices, just as we expect you will do with ours.

[sunlover33]

59 minutes ago, talljules1 said:

We take the view that living with COVID does not mean pretending it has gone away (because it really hasn't - and cases and hospitalisations are rising again in the UK).

Cases are very high in the U.K. general population currently 1:20  but the positive benefit is people get a natural immunity boost. Hospital numbers and deaths are rising but mainly  in the over 85s and they are  still not as high as in January even though we have removed all restrictions  now. That’s why we are starting our 2nd booster jab campaign today for the over 75s and vulnerable over 12s. We can no longer run or hide  from this virus we need to learn how to live along with it, it will be with us for years.

[talljules1]

30 minutes ago, sunlover33 said:

Cases are very high in the U.K. general population currently 1:20  but the positive benefit is people get a natural immunity boost. Hospital numbers and deaths are rising but mainly  in the over 85s and they are  still not as high as in January even though we have removed all restrictions  now. That’s why we are starting our 2nd booster jab campaign today for the over 75s and vulnerable over 12s. We can no longer run or hide  from this virus we need to learn how to live along with it, it will be with us for years.

Hmmm. I agree that this virus is going to be around for a long time. I don't agree with you that getting it gives a natural immunity boost.  If that were true, there would not be people who are fully vaccinated, who have also had COVID before, who are getting it again now.  I personally know several such individuals.  The COVID deaths I am aware of are in people much younger than 85. (We should also be careful about dismissing deaths in the over 85s - it is not as though these people do not matter!)  I am glad that the new booster campaign has been launched today.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

Absolutely unbelievable.  Still surprises me how astoundingly self-centered people can be.

@Guppy99 We are all here to discuss cruising and you have admitted to going on two cruises recently.  And very unfortunate that you did get infected.  @Ken the cruiser was sharing his experience and plan of dealing with the virus on cruises.  I have shared my plan (in post #129) of living with the virus in the upcoming endemic phase. As have others here including @WonderMan3.  It is not ever going away completely.  So what to do we do?  It is pretty unrealistic to think that most people will just continue to wear masks, social distance and live the remainder of their lives with restrictions in particular in times when transmission is very low.  And I do believe that most cruising people will continue to adhere to current or future guidelines and vaccine recommendations when the virus changes or comes back.  Most cruising people are not self-centered.  Yes there are a few who are and I am not denying that.  So what is your plan going forward?  

Edited March 21, 2022 by TeeRick

[sunlover33]

It strikes me that some would prefer to call people selfish and self centred rather than suggest a constructive way in which we move forward from here. We cannot remain where we have been for the last two years. We can’t continue to run and hide away, life has to move on. Medicine has advanced.  Sadly for some individuals who have compromised immunity life may never return to how it was before. This is the reality of living with a chronic condition and while most sensible people are willing to be respectful and adhere to any guidelines required, as a society  we need to move on to an endemic stage. I think psychologically some are not yet ready for this stage,  hence the fear about making any changes. 

[sunlover33]

6 hours ago, talljules1 said:

Hmmm. I agree that this virus is going to be around for a long time. I don't agree with you that getting it gives a natural immunity boost.  If that were true, there would not be people who are fully vaccinated, who have also had COVID before, who are getting it again now.  I personally know several such individuals.  The COVID deaths I am aware of are in people much younger than 85. (We should also be careful about dismissing deaths in the over 85s - it is not as though these people do not matter!)  I am glad that the new booster campaign has been launched today.

Research shows that you will develop anti n antibodies following a bout of covid and anti s antibodies either from vaccination or developing covid. The higher antibody level you have the less likely you are to contract covid. Both  anti n and anti s antibody levels will wain in time which is why people become re infected, however catching covid will naturally give your antibody levels a boost, especially if your anti s antibodies from vaccination are lowering. I’m in no way dismiss the deaths of over 85s as insignificant, I’m just saying that the figures represent a death rate mainly for over 85s. Deaths in any age are more likely to be people with multiple Co morbidities or unvaccinated.  My 92 year old mother has just recovered from a bout of covid, she had no more symptoms than a minor cold luckily, because  she was fully vaccinated. I’m really pleased we are re-vaccinating the over 75s as their immunity will reduce quicker than the general population making then even more at risk. 

[D C]

20 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

You ignore the fact that while you may not experience any serios comments, you can transmit it to someone who will experience serious symptoms, secondary infections, ad possibly long term effects. Are you aware of the number of persons with comorbidities. That includes everyone who: has a compromised immune system (rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, pregnancy, PPIDs, SCID, autoimmune disease, Lupus, cancer, transplant patients, diabetics, etc) Then add those that already have breathing issues, such as COPD, emphysema, a lung removal etc. The numbers are huge.  Anyone who fails to consider that they run into multiple people everyday that are compromised , is not living in the real world.  Anyone that fails to consider the impact their own decsions have on the others, is living a self-centered existence.

I don't ignore that at all.  Ultimately, everyone has to act solely in their OWN best interest. 

 

While someone with elevated risk factors would love to have everyone around them taking every precaution to prevent spreading the virus, the fact is there is no way to tell if they are.  Thus the individual can't blindly trust others and must take matters into their own hands to protect themselves. 

[D C]

17 hours ago, highway180 said:

But what if it was YOU who unintentionally spread it.......so then it's their problem???

piss poor attitude Ken, as anything is possible with this virus  . We need to stop judging people we hardly know......period

 

this thread should've been locked a long time ago

JMHO

Yes, exactly. If someone who doesn't know they're infected (asymptomatic perhaps, or maybe tested negative with symptoms) spreads it to someone else, it is absolutely the problem of the 'recipient' of the virus.  This is exactly the situation where so many find themselves with no idea where they caught covid. Protect yourself because others won't, or might not even know they need to. 

[LGW59]

16 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

Absolutely unbelievable.  Still surprises me how astoundingly self-centered people can be.

Ridiculous.  You went on cruises, was that self centered?  Shall I live my everyday life based on others  decisions, I think, no wait, I know, I shall not.

[Guppy99]

I choose to travel. I never denied that. I do safely and with others in mind.  I do not just shrug my shoulders and say "and vaccinated, therefore if I get it, it will be mild and nothing to worry about, and if I infect you...too bad that's your problem".

I find that attitude self-centered and disgusting.

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

I choose to travel. I never denied that. I do safely and with others in mind.  I do not just shrug my shoulders and say "and vaccinated, therefore if I get it, it will be mild and nothing to worry about, and if I infect you...too bad that's your problem".

I find that attitude self-centered and disgusting.

We all need to and should take precautions, if others do not, then yes that is their problem, not mine.  I don't leave my home thinking oh gosh who may I encounter and how can I make sure they are protected.  I own me, they own them.  

[Guppy99]

16 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

We all need to and should take precautions, if others do not, then yes that is their problem, not mine.  I don't leave my home thinking oh gosh who may I encounter and how can I make sure they are protected.  I own me, they own them.  

Just as I said: Self-centered, "all about me", " the world revolves around me",  etc... That's my opinion. You and others have your own. That's both the good and bad of living in a free society., and I absolutely defend your right to be wrong.

[LGW59]

18 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

Just as I said: Self-centered, "all about me", " the world revolves around me",  etc... That's my opinion. You and others have your own. That's both the good and bad of living in a free society., and I absolutely defend your right to be wrong.

I follow science

[Wineaux007]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I follow science

LOL.  What science is that?  It seems it evolves every day.

[LGW59]

1 minute ago, Wineaux007 said:

LOL.  What science is that?  It seems it evolves every day.

yes it does

[sunlover33]

1 hour ago, Wineaux007 said:

LOL.  What science is that?  It seems it evolves every day.

It’s certainly evolved over the past two years, unfortunately some peoples mind sets have not.

[dgoz]

 I too am ready to treat this virus as endemic. We have talked a lot about health risks on here. I think our mental health also needs to be a priority. I respect Ken's right to play the avoid covid game onboard cruise ships, but I want to see my fellow cruisers as potential new friends and not as purveyors of disease. We are treating each other like possible land mines to be avoided at all cost. But living with this kind of anxiety and mistrust also has its own costs. I speak only for myself as I know many are more risk adverse. I just need to see smiles more than masks to have a sense of well-being.

[Ken the cruiser]

43 minutes ago, dgoz said:

 I too am ready to treat this virus as endemic. We have talked a lot about health risks on here. I think our mental health also needs to be a priority. I respect Ken's right to play the avoid covid game onboard cruise ships, but I want to see my fellow cruisers as potential new friends and not as purveyors of disease. We are treating each other like possible land mines to be avoided at all cost. But living with this kind of anxiety and mistrust also has its own costs. I speak only for myself as I know many are more risk adverse. I just need to see smiles more than masks to have a sense of well-being.

One big reason we play our "avoid covid game" is that all of our 4 cruises since it started back up have either been B2B or B3B cruises where we had to test the day before transition day. On the last leg we're usually not so focused.

 

Now, if a cruise line decides to stop testing folks on B2Bs on transition day, since CDC only "recommends" testing for B2B cruisers, we would probably not worry so much. Funny thing when we looked at the latest CDC guidelines testing B2B cruisers is now just "recommended" whereas passengers testing prior to initially boarding a ship is still required.

 

Screening Testing of All Embarking and Disembarking Passengers

	Passengers with Documentation of Recovery from COVID-19	Passengers Who Are Not Fully Vaccinated	Passengers Who Are Fully Vaccinated	Passengers Up to Date with COVID-19 Vaccines
Pre-embarkation Day Testing	Not Applicable	Viral (NAAT or antigen test)[*] no more than 3 days before boarding; NAAT is preferred	Viral (NAAT or antigen test) no more than 2 days before boarding [†] OR Viral test on embarkation day	Viral (NAAT or antigen test) no more than 3 days before boarding† OR Viral test on embarkation day
Embarkation Day Testing	Not Applicable	Viral (NAAT or antigen test)[*]; NAAT is preferred
Disembarkation Testing [^]	Not Applicable	Viral (NAAT or antigen test)	Not Applicable	Not Applicable
Back-to-Back Sailing[¥] Testing	Not Applicable	Viral (NAAT or antigen test)	Recommended Viral (NAAT or antigen test)	Recommended Viral (NAAT or antigen test)

[*] Either the pre-embarkation day test or the embarkation day test must be NAAT.

[†] Fully vaccinated passengers or passengers who are up to date with their COVID-19 vaccines may use a self-test (sometimes referred to as home test)—see specifications in section below.

[^] Disembarkation testing is only required for voyages of more than 4 nights.

[¥] Back-to-back sailing refers to passengers who stay on board for two or more voyages.

 

Operations Manual for CDC’s COVID-19 Program for Cruise Ships Operating in U.S. Waters | Quarantine | CDC