Unethical Princess Vacation Planner?

[donaldsc]

3 hours ago, jimmieg said:

So...

First, thanks for those that replied to my question.

For those interested...

The VP called back and I told him I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but was baffled how I ask for a quote and ended up with a full-blown booking, a cabin assignment and (today) a welcome letter from Jan reminding me flights were available and my excursions were incomplete. Ha!

Anyway, said VP became defensive, said he "gave me exactly what I asked for" and 

1. "I have to make a booking to give a quote. It's the only way."

2. The FCD's "jumped on there.

3. When ask if we could go ahead and salvage the booking (🫣), I told him there were significantly better fares were available. He disputed there were better fares available elsewhere, anyway. "Maybe if I take off PPlus."

 

So, didn't end well. Full disclosure: I did tell him I was P.O.'d with what happened and was not interested in arguing.

Inept, for sure. Unethical? You can decide. Certainly not focused on customer development. Scratching my head as to how the sales side can be such a different culture from the shipboard side at Princess.

 

I guess there's no coffee for him today.

"Coffee's for closers" (Glengarry Glen Ross)😉 

Note: YMMV. If you have a good one, great!

 

 

If you are new at your job, don't know what you are doing and lack confidence - that is exactly how I would expect him to behave.

 

DON

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, mtnesterz said:

I've looked at online prices. They're always exactly what Princess charges. Guess I'm not looking at the right TAs.

TA public websites can only advertise current Princess promotional prices.  Their agents can offer lower prices to you when you contact them.  Some agencies have "hidden" webpages where self-service bookings do show you their discounted pricing.  You may or may not have looked at some of the "right" agencies, but you would have to investigate further to determine whether they have any better offer. 

[Steelers36]

47 minutes ago, Kiran said:

“The FCC just jumped on the booking”

 

 

while it sounds outlandish 

That is EXACTLY what happened to me

 

i was trying to put a 3 day courtesy hold on a cruise on my home computer at 

 

and somehow, with no human intervention, it applied my free floating FCC as a deposit when i only wanted a hold

 

FCC easily removed when called the next day

You have referred to the wrong item.  The poster specifically mentioned FCD's.  The agent would have to review and select the FCD AFAIK.  It is true that a FCC sitting on your file will auto-apply to the next new booking - once a deposit has been applied.

[Kiran]

Steelers36

 

Thank you for the explanation

 

mine was a FCC from March 2020 cancelled cruise

 

I am new to Princess and was taken by surprise when i ended up with a booking rather than a hold

[caribill]

4 hours ago, Kiran said:

Steelers36

 

Thank you for the explanation

 

mine was a FCC from March 2020 cancelled cruise

 

I am new to Princess and was taken by surprise when i ended up with a booking rather than a hold

 

A "hold" is a booking. If no deposit by the end of x days, the hold (booking) is automatically cancelled and any FCCs that were applied returned to the account for future use.

 

So when the rep said making a booking was the only way, he was correct.

 

And you have now learned what others have known: FCCs (not FCDs) are automatically attached to a new booking (even a hold) if you have any.

 

I do not think your rep was being dishonest or trying to pull a fast one. He just needed to have done a better job of explaining the whole process of placing a hold.

 

And he was reliable in calling you back the next day, just as he had promised to do.

 

Sorry there was so much unneeded confusion.

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, capriccio said:

Years ago I read here on Cruise Critic that TAs had an agreement with Princess not to advertise their lower prices; you had to call or email to get a quote. I don't know if that was and is still true but I've used the same on-line TA for more than a decade and I have always received a discount (which I greatly prefer over OBCs) - anywhere between 5% and 12% and usually 8% or 9% on Princess cruises.  So if you haven't done so before, when researching prices for your next Princess cruise, get quotes directly from at least a few TAs before booking.

Yes, once we had decided on an Alaskan cruise and found I forget whether it was 3 or 4 on the web site of the TA we generally use that met our criteria for dates and ports. The Princess ship we eventually booked and sailed on had the highest price on the website, but the lowest price when we called and spoke with him.

 

I also remember reading the same thing about advertising lower prices.

[Coral]

8 hours ago, capriccio said:

Years ago I read here on Cruise Critic that TAs had an agreement with Princess not to advertise their lower prices; you had to call or email to get a quote. I don't know if that was and is still true but I've used the same on-line TA for more than a decade and I have always received a discount (which I greatly prefer over OBCs) - anywhere between 5% and 12% and usually 8% or 9% on Princess cruises.  So if you haven't done so before, when researching prices for your next Princess cruise, get quotes directly from at least a few TAs before booking.

It wasn't an agreement. Princess does not allow travel agents to post cruises below published rates. This was a decision by Princess. Though since Princess still allows discounting, agents can quote lower prices, just not on a website. It can be via email or phone.

[jimmieg]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

A "hold" is a booking. If no deposit by the end of x days, the hold (booking) is automatically cancelled and any FCCs that were applied returned to the account for future use.

 

So when the rep said making a booking was the only way, he was correct.

 

And you have now learned what others have known: FCCs (not FCDs) are automatically attached to a new booking (even a hold) if you have any.

 

I do not think your rep was being dishonest or trying to pull a fast one. He just needed to have done a better job of explaining the whole process of placing a hold.

 

And he was reliable in calling you back the next day, just as he had promised to do.

 

Sorry there was so much unneeded confusion.

Yeah.  Except...remember I never ask for a hold, just a price. Get them all the time from agencies without a hold, much less a  booking, as do you, I'm sure. And this was a targeted "for recipient only" promotion that was not populating correctly when QR code was scanned.

If I want a hold, I ask for one. If I want a booking, I make one. He used my FCD, so it would not have dropped off unless I proactively cancelled.

Perhaps he assumed I needed a lot of hand-holding. I do not. I hand agents a booking complete with a cabin # after I decide. They enter it and collect a commission. Easy-peasy. Maybe an email or call-back for credit card or confirmation. 

A clear "Don't call me, I'll call you" next time. Except no next time for PVP. 

Everybody finds the booking process they are happy with. I'm trying to stay "upon the sea" as much as I can these days, so booking is an ongoing process. Always a spreadsheet and a calendar at work looking for the convergence of time and value.

Edited May 6, 2022 by jimmieg
Clarification

[caribill]

2 hours ago, jimmieg said:

Yeah.  Except...remember I never ask for a hold, just a price. Get them all the time from agencies without a hold, much less a  booking, as do you, I'm sure.

 

I fully understand your expectations and why what the rep did was not at all what you had wanted.

 

However, there have been a number of posts in the pasts that basically said "I asked for a quote and when I called back the next day to make the booking the price was $xxx more. I am upset that I am unable to get the price quoted originally."

 

The only sure way to have the original quote honored when one calls back is to have made a tentative booking ("hold"). It is also possible that the next day the category could be sold out, so the hold also preserves availability. The rep should (but did not) have asked if you want a hold so that price would be available the next day.

 

There also have been a number of posts in the past (before FCCs became a part of the process) that essentially said "I only asked for a quote, but a booking was made. How do I cancel the booking?"  And the responses said after x days the booking will disappear because no deposit was made.

 

Please note that the posts about these holds were made when the quote requests were made to a Travel Agent or directly to Princess and without the information that a tentative booking was being made to preserve the price quoted. It seems to be a common practice.

 

The main difference is that pre-pandemic, almost everyone did not have FCCs that the Princess computer system automatically applied to a booking, whether a hold or an intended booking. In fact this automatic applying of FCCs has resulted in a number of posts saying that the FCCs were thus not being applied to a cruise the person wanted them applied to.

[iancal]

I cannot speak for Princess folks but our former on line TA used to do the same.

 

What if the agent was aware that prices were going up at the end of the day.   He did something that was entirely reversible should you decide NOT to take the offer and he gave you some price protection.

 

Over the years our former on line TA gave us that kind of direction.  More than once, when booking inside the final payment window she told us to hang on.  Took our details and said we should  book 'next week'.  That price was always lower.   More than once she told us to book that very day, now.  Yes, the price went up.

 

Once, when we had booked outside the final payment window she casually mentioned that we could cancel and get a full refund.  Then we could rebook inside the final payment window.  We took the hint.  It saved us just over $400. per person and got us a slightly better balcony cabin.

 

In all instances she clearly knew something we did not, she could not communicate it directly to us, but we clearly understood her meaning and took the cue.

Edited May 6, 2022 by iancal

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, iancal said:

I cannot speak for Princess folks but our former on line TA used to do the same.

 

What if the agent was aware that prices were going up at the end of the day.   He did something that was entirely reversible should you decide NOT to take the offer and he gave you some price protection.

 

Over the years our former on line TA gave us that kind of direction.  More than once, when booking inside the final payment window she told us to hang on.  Took our details and said we should  book 'next week'.  That price was always lower.   More than once she told us to book that very day, now.  Yes, the price went up.

 

Once, when we had booked outside the final payment window she casually mentioned that we could cancel and get a full refund.  Then we could rebook inside the final payment window.  We took the hint.  It saved us just over $400. per person and got us a slightly better balcony cabin.

 

In all instances she clearly knew something we did not, she could not communicate it directly to us, but we clearly understood her meaning and took the cue.

So, you used a TA, but still had "control". Haven't you read all the posts that say don't use a TA because you will lose control of your booking? 🤣

[Coral]

18 hours ago, caribill said:

 

I fully understand your expectations and why what the rep did was not at all what you had wanted.

 

However, there have been a number of posts in the pasts that basically said "I asked for a quote and when I called back the next day to make the booking the price was $xxx more. I am upset that I am unable to get the price quoted originally."

 

The only sure way to have the original quote honored when one calls back is to have made a tentative booking ("hold"). It is also possible that the next day the category could be sold out, so the hold also preserves availability. The rep should (but did not) have asked if you want a hold so that price would be available the next day.

 

 

@caribillis exactly right. They do this so that if you decide the next day to book the cruise, they have locked in the price. If you decide against it - it falls off.

 

[iancal]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

So, you used a TA, but still had "control". Haven't you read all the posts that say don't use a TA because you will lose control of your booking? 🤣

I have read all those 'control  'posts.  Twenty plus cruise booked through a TA.  I have yet to have someone clearly enunciate why I would loose 'control' by booking through a TA.  

 

 

[ontheweb]

5 minutes ago, iancal said:

I have read all those 'control  'posts.  Twenty plus cruise booked through a TA.  I have yet to have someone clearly enunciate why I would loose 'control' by booking through a TA.  

 

 

Same here. I believe it is because you have to call the TA for certain things to change. Somehow, calling the cruise line gives you control while calling a TA for the same things does not. I don't understand it either.

[iancal]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

Same here. I believe it is because you have to call the TA for certain things to change. Somehow, calling the cruise line gives you control while calling a TA for the same things does not. I don't understand it either.

Yes...and we have had some very good calls with our TA.  Who has the most influence?   Me who might book two cruises a year or my on line TA whose agency booking THOUSANDS of cruises each year?

 

On one occasion we were about to book a last minute cruise on another cruise line.  Our TA suggested we reconsider.  She had feedback from a number of her customers that the ship was a dog.  Issues with mtce.  Flooding, A/C issues etc.    We went on to the CC reviews and discovered that she was right.  The ship was a dog at that time.   Would a cruise line employee have told us that or would the agent just signed us up and told us it was a wonderful ship???

[caribill]

19 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Same here. I believe it is because you have to call the TA for certain things to change. Somehow, calling the cruise line gives you control while calling a TA for the same things does not. I don't understand it either.

 

I always use a TA, but I can understand others who do not because most TAs have shorter hours than Princess has.

 

Not all TAs have shorter hours. One TA I have used is open late almost every day. I was wanting to go on one sold out cruise when a vacancy showed up at 8 PM on a Saturday. A quick phone call secured that voyage for me.

[Musky Ike]

I usually use a TA for reduced cruise cost and/or extra OBC. Sometimes I have still have had them re-fare if Princess has a great sale and have ended up with the Princess price anyway, but i usually still get a little extra OBC. Many times my total savings is 7-10%. That adds up, $750 on the most recent one, for now.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Musky Ike

[iancal]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

I always use a TA, but I can understand others who do not because most TAs have shorter hours than Princess has.

 

Not all TAs have shorter hours. One TA I have used is open late almost every day. I was wanting to go on one sold out cruise when a vacancy showed up at 8 PM on a Saturday. A quick phone call secured that voyage for me.

Many brick and mortar TA's may have shorter work hours than Princess.

 

Our on line TA certainly has as long or longer hours.  Similar to the cruise line's, on line TA's have to be available and serve multiple time zones, holidays, etc

 

We have called our on line TA agency at some very unsocial hours in order to secure a price decrease or take advantage of a price/cabin offering inside the final payment window.  We have never had an issue.  If our TA was not available, there was always another TA on duty to take our call and make the appropriate arrangements.

Edited May 7, 2022 by iancal

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, iancal said:

Many brick and mortar TA's may have shorter work hours than Princess.

 

Our on line TA certainly has as long or longer hours.  Similar to the cruise line's, on line TA's have to be available and serve multiple time zones, holidays, ets.

Plus, posters have been writing about long, long wait times when calling the cruise lines. I either get my TA on the phone or he calls me right back if he is busy with another customer.

[JF - retired RRT]

On 5/6/2022 at 1:41 AM, caribill said:

And you have now learned what others have known: FCCs (not FCDs) are automatically attached to a new booking (even a hold) if you have any.

Except when they're not. We booked a cruise to specifically use as much of our FCCs as possible since time is running out. We still owed $800+. Thought nothing of it. A couple of weeks later booked another cruise. No FCCs applied. Maybe a month later, booked another cruise...$1657 FCCs were applied. Didn't even know we had any left. I hadn't checked, just a$$-u-med that Princess kept track. Who knew??

[Kiran]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:28 AM, jimmieg said:

Yeah.  Except...remember I never ask for a hold, just a price. Get them all the time from agencies without a hold, much less a  booking, as do you, I'm sure. And this was a targeted "for recipient only" promotion that was not populating correctly when QR code was scanned.

If I want a hold, I ask for one. If I want a booking, I make one. He used my FCD, so it would not have dropped off unless I proactively cancelled.

Perhaps he assumed I needed a lot of hand-holding. I do not. I hand agents a booking complete with a cabin # after I decide. They enter it and collect a commission. Easy-peasy. Maybe an email or call-back for credit card or confirmation. 

A clear "Don't call me, I'll call you" next time. Except no next time for PVP. 

Everybody finds the booking process they are happy with. I'm trying to stay "upon the sea" as much as I can these days, so booking is an ongoing process. Always a spreadsheet and a calendar at work looking for the convergence of time and value.

i developed a spreadsheet also to compare cruises

customized to compare price per today, relative class of ship 5• or 3 •, food quality and the desirability and number of ports so a novel good port to me (Dominica, Tortola) weighed higher than a good port (st. Maarten, san juan, st kitts) which weighed higher than an ordinary port such as (nassaus, falmouth)

 

Disney have to have a factor to take into account the amusement i get from their ships for sheer childlike silliness such as hidden mickeys and character appearances

 

not just minnie and mickey but minnie and mickey in sailing outfits, dressed for formal night etc

 

I do have a photo if my family posed with an enormous rat, Remy, after eating at their lovely Remy restaurant

 

 

 

[Kiran]

16 hours ago, iancal said:

Many brick and mortar TA's may have shorter work hours than Princess.

 

Our on line TA certainly has as long or longer hours.  Similar to the cruise line's, on line TA's have to be available and serve multiple time zones, holidays, etc

 

We have called our on line TA agency at some very unsocial hours in order to secure a price decrease or take advantage of a price/cabin offering inside the final payment window.  We have never had an issue.  If our TA was not available, there was always another TA on duty to take our call and make the appropriate arrangements.

I really hate to bother my TA as i book such budget cruises and accomodations

 

so usually prefer to book myself as i can recheck prices and promotions

upgradevrooms etc

 

i have been learning how to benefit from TA asdistance  such as her calling cruise line for an issue since she can remain on hold for several customers simultaneously!

 

But in good conscience i cant expect Her to put in many hours of work when cruise total for 2 people less than $2500

 

Guessing if TA and TA agency gets 16% of basic cruise fare 

there is less than $320 

 

guess half to agency and half to agent

 

how many hours of work should i expect for $160 of commission?

 

 

Far different for me than the $5k, $10k and up cruisers 

 

they should receive a lot of attention to get goid value for their vacation money