Are Low Staffing Levels Part of Celebrity’s Plan to Cut Costs and Increase Profitably?

[canderson]

28 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

You're welcome to think whatever your heart desires.  One should think about why a Retreat manager who's never been on a ship was offered a contract.

Why was someone who had never been on a ship given the contract for ship redesign?  Not because she came cheap, you can bet.  Just bad management decisions.

[micruiser2002]

There are so many things that are impacting this.  A big issue is everyone trying to get their required work visa's from each of the different countries.  Every country has been impacted by this and all are very behind in basically everything.  This worker shortage is no different than the major chip shortage the automotive industry has been facing for the past year, or the shortage of so many other things.  To just assume they are doing this to cut costs is pretty sad.  Is that what you think of all of your local businesses who are having the same issue?  

[cruisestitch]

To imagine that there is a deliberate corporate plan to anger and disappoint customers and ultimately turn them away is simply ludicrous.  
 

 

[JeanieC,Aston]

Hi

Just my opinion,but I was there.!!!!

On my Silhouette cruise a couple of weeks ago the restaurant supervisors lost total control of the operation.

I can’t blame all of the staff,they tried their best.

When you reply to your buzzer you don’t expect (after waiting 1 hour) to be shown to a table for 6 without even the table clothes laid.Then wait 15 min to have your drink order taken,,,,one night ansuperviser apologised and took our order,only to arrive with the bottles to find no glasses had been laid out,,,,,,then we had to ask her if we could get some bread and butter.This was most nights not just one or two.

There were plenty of examples of how understaffing affected the cruise experience.

 

It not good the Celebrity sycophants on here continually defending X in all circumstances.

 

They knew the staffing problem they shouldn’t have sold 2800 tickets for my cruise.

Like P&O and Cunard they should match the passenger count with staffing numbers.

[drakes2]

1 hour ago, prmssk said:

Princess is sailing at similar capacity to Celebrity and is no longer limiting capacity (beyond a few isolation cabins). The Caribbean Princess is at about full double occupancy this week and sold out into June, just as one example. And the service issues I’m hearing on Princess boards are worse and more consistent than anything I am seeing on Celebrity boards. 

Thank you for that information. Waa actually considering Princess for my November cruise but may stay put. Like they say; Better the devil you know than  the devil you don't know. 😆 

[prmssk]

7 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

Thank you for that information. Waa actually considering Princess for my November cruise but may stay put. Like they say; Better the devil you know than  the devil you don't know. 😆 

We have sailed both from the restart and we have both a Princess cruise and a Celebrity cruise coming up yet this year so I follow both boards.  Based on my experiences and what I have read (so just my perceptions), I am currently more comfortable on Celebrity and feel overall they are providing a better service. That isn't to say there isn't good in both lines.  (We had great cruises on both lines.)  That's also not to say there aren't problems on both lines.  

 

I think we are just sailing in very difficult times with additional protocols and hoops to jump through, the spread of COVID on ships waning and waxing, and the struggle for any type of business in the service/tourism industry to obtain good help AND keep them healthy.  Hopefully things will turn a corner soon.

[Baron Barracuda]

If low pay is the issue (I don't believe it is), given how much of crew's compensation now comes from grats rather than salary would expect cruise lines to offset higher personnel cost by simply raising the daily grat charge as Carnival did recently.  Doesn't work for X though thanks to Always Included.  

[mfs2k]

Personally I believe any day I have to wait for entrees in a Celebrity cruise ship dining room is better than a day at work. 
I hope these issues resolve in the next 5 months

 

Assuming things are the same I’m going on my Beyond cruise with no expectations other than an opportunity to relax, drink, eat, gamble and have fun for 9 nights.

 

Praying Covid doesn’t cancel our plans. 

[Covepointcruiser]

Celebrity should do what Cunard is now doing.   They are canceling the booked voyages of a number of passengers because of staffing issues.   They have stated they simply can’t provide the level of service they want unless they decrease the passenger loads.    Hope I am not one of the ones facing a canceled voyage in December.    

[Ommadawn]

3 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

I’m also less sympathetic to the excuse it’s hard get foreign crew into the US.   All of those reasons were unexpected last year and I understood the problems.  However they have had a year to deal with the new problems and they should be allocating more time to get crew to the ship.  If I told my boss that I haven’t done anything to solve the problems I had last year, I would have been fired.

 

It is all regulation driven. Before the pandemic, you used to be able to procure work visas, etc. in a very short time. However, these days, many governments are really, really dragging their heels when it comes to staffing agencies and consulates that would allow people the ability to move to or go to work in other countries. It has been really bad.

[JeanieC,Aston]

6 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

 

It is all regulation driven. Before the pandemic, you used to be able to procure work visas, etc. in a very short time. However, these days, many governments are really, really dragging their heels when it comes to staffing agencies and consulates that would allow people the ability to move to or go to work in other countries. It has been really bad.

Hi

Really interested as don’t know the answer…

Do crew really need a USA work visa to work on a cruise ship?
 

Recently P&O Ferries (Ferries not Cruises different company) in the UK sacked 800 crew and brought in crew next day to replace them at slave wages,,,,The UK government couldn’t do anything to stop them.

[Algebralovr]

5 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

Sounds like what the bigger issue is X is not renewing contracts for the more experienced crew in favor new hires which saves them money.

I don’t believe it is that at all.  I believe the issue is work visas, availability, and the like.  For staff from 1st World Countries, it is easy to get a visa.  Some places, not so much.  One of the hotel managers is a citizen of India but his wife is from a different country.  He spend much of the stopage in his wife’s country.  To get back to the ship, he had to get out of his wife’s country, go back to India, get an appointment with the US Embassy in India, and have his visa approved.  I heard from his friend that it took him 3 months to actually get to the US to the ship he was supposed to be on.  This is an established employee, who has been with Celebrity for 20+ years, and simply needed his documents renewed.  
 

4 hours ago, OysterD said:

Exactly this. Companies/organisations everywhere are suffering from staff shortages. Hospitality industry in particular is struggling to recruit and keep staff, so I dont blame celebrity one bit for some ships having slight delays in the dining room. 

 

What I don't understand is where all the workers went?! Has half the population just retired or decided not to work anymore?! I was just at a very busy garden centre, apologies were offered for slow service because they were short staffed. Friends flight a few days ago was delayed for several hours because of staff shortages. Staff shortages at the airport caused other delays. Try finding a contractor to do some work at your house any time in the next x number of months, they're all booked up and short staffed. I know owners of several bars/restaurants, they cannot get staff for love nor money. 

 

So going back to the OP's question, are celebrity deliberately reducing staffing numbers to save money? I very much doubt that, they are probably just struggling recruiting new staff like so many other businesses. 

A lot of the population has just not gone back to working for others.  Plus, people on the lower end in the US are doing more gig jobs that W2 jobs.  Every single place in my town is hiring, but they want people in the employer’s terms.  They will only give 20-25 hours a week, no benefits, but want completely open availability.  Lots of people are saying no way to that.  
 

I know a gal who used to be a housekeeping manager for a large hotel.  She was laid off a few months into COVID, after working for that hotel for over 12 years.  When they called her back, she said no. Now, she is running her own business, cleaning people’s homes and small businesses, making more and doing it on her schedule.  
 

 

3 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

You're welcome to think whatever your heart desires.  One should think about why a Retreat manager who's never been on a ship was offered a contract.

I know exactly the new retreat manager you are speaking of, he comes from the UK and was shadowing the retreat manager on Silhouette in February.    I’m fairly certain he was hired because he was from the UK.  It was easy to get him the right visa to work on the ship.  The powers that be decided he had sufficient experience that he could be trained.  They had him scheduled for be trained for nearly 3 months before taking over as Retreat Manager on his own.  
 

There were other personnel who might have been promotable, however they had been working since restart and needed vacations.  Meanwhile, that 3-stripe trainee was available, interested, and from the UK.  It is MUCH easier to hire a person from the UK or any EU country than anywhere else. 
 

I’ve got a friend who is a 3-Stripe.  I was joking with him that one of these days I was going to run away from reality and join the crew.  My area is training and development.  I design training, and over see it.  I joked but said that I’d probably never pass the physical.  This friend responded that with my passport, it wouldn’t matter.  They would hire me no matter what and waive the physical requirements.  
 

That is what is going on.

 

For those of you complaining that the lower level officers aren’t helping out?  I’ve seen the opposite. I’ve seen plenty of 1, 2 and 3 stripe officers jumping in where needed.  I watched a 2 stripe doing inventory and restocking bar after bar.  I saw another jump in at Al Bacio making drinks, and a second jump in to run the register.  Most of those officers do jump in where needed.  

[Ommadawn]

3 minutes ago, JeanieC,Aston said:

Hi

Really interested as don’t know the answer…

Do crew really need a USA work visa to work on a cruise ship?
 

Recently P&O Ferries (Ferries not Cruises different company) in the UK sacked 800 crew and brought in crew next day to replace them at slave wages,,,,The UK government couldn’t do anything to stop them.

 

Regulations vary from country to country, just like the testing (or no testing) to enter or fly to a country.

 

 

[Algebralovr]

11 minutes ago, JeanieC,Aston said:

Hi

Really interested as don’t know the answer…

Do crew really need a USA work visa to work on a cruise ship?
 

Recently P&O Ferries (Ferries not Cruises different company) in the UK sacked 800 crew and brought in crew next day to replace them at slave wages,,,,The UK government couldn’t do anything to stop them.

In the US, the foreign crew still need an I-95 work visa.  They also have to complete the I-94 when they first arrive in the US. 

[wrk2cruise]

I do think that some of the current situation is due to the miscalculation by Celebrity of the staffing needs over time.  Maybe no fault of their own.  We were on Summit in Nov with 900 crew, 2 weeks ago 600+ crew.  On Constellation in Jan with 900 crew and in late March with 900 crew.

 

Celebrity certainly thought that they would be approaching full capacity (80+) at the holidays and through the rest of the Caribbean season.  Then Omicron hit and there were heavy cancellations with CwC.  Our January sailing has 200 no shows over and above the number the GR manager was expecting to board the day before.  On that sailing crew were openly worried about contracts being cut short by a couple of months.

 

I believe that Celebrity purposely scaled back crew levels in Feburary and I guess I can't blame them given the passenger loads.  But then they certainly shouldn't allow unbounded bookings now if they are still constraining crew levels.

 

I bet Beyond is at full crew......

[WestLakeGirl]

I keep coming back to the bizarre idea that reduction in staff is done on purpose to make passengers unhappy. I am trying to picture the board meeting where this idea was proposed.  “Hey everyone, I know how to cut a lot of costs, we just won’t hire as many people which will mean that passengers will be unhappy and they will stop booking our line, how’s that for a good idea to save money.”  Seriously????

 

 

[Arizona Wildcat]

1 hour ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Celebrity should do what Cunard is now doing.   They are canceling the booked voyages of a number of passengers because of staffing issues.   They have stated they simply can’t provide the level of service they want unless they decrease the passenger loads.    Hope I am not one of the ones facing a canceled voyage in December.    

I don't disagree, but can you imagine the firestorm if Celebrity cancelled a couple hundred cabins on say Summit or Apex a month before a series of cruises.

Should X have only booked today 50-75%?  Probably, but again who thought Covid numbers and hospitalizations would be rising again so much today.

Celebrity also has signed many contracts for staff and the staff has not been able to get on board for all sorts of reasons.  This from friends in Goa.

Impossible to predict outbreaks of covid in crew.  Again, the cruiselines have not been very forthcoming about the number of cases.  An infected waiter probably means more in a few days.

[Covepointcruiser]

Cunard is doing exactly that and dealing with the firestorm.    There is no perfect or even mildly acceptable to the staff shortages.    Canceling booked guests is never pleasant.

[Megabear2]

53 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Cunard is doing exactly that and dealing with the firestorm.    There is no perfect or even mildly acceptable to the staff shortages.    Canceling booked guests is never pleasant.

Those cancelled are receiving full refunds plus 25% FCC by way of acknowledgement of the problems and disappointment. It is a wise company that tells the truth and protects their reputation particularly one that seeks to emphasise their luxury and high service levels.  

 

Cunard has had its problems on recent sailings regarding the service it was able to offer and has clearly taken the brave decision to say it wasn't good enough and we won't allow others to be disappointed on board.

[tartana]

Interesting reading all the comments.... unfortunately, it's the way of the world right now....most EVERYONE is looking for staff; there are shortages; businesses are dealing with people off with Covid; delays in most every industry.  I can also see the issues with the crew trying to get their work Visas.... because I'm sure there are staff shortages that cause delays for this...it's all a domino affect. Praying one of these months/years our businesses and world can return to some semblance of "normal".  It's definitely a fact that in recent times, we all need a much larger portion or patience, acceptance and kindness.  It is what it is...Cheers!.... Can't wait to cruise again :) 

 

And also a note on reservation times for Select Dining....IMO if you're keen enough to reserve your times, good for you.... We like a time between the early/late, so I prefer Select, so I can book my 7:30-8 table, but I appreciate being able to reserve it. - And I faithfully honour my reservation times - and if not, I will be sure to cancel and let them know.  

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Those cancelled are receiving full refunds plus 25% FCC by way of acknowledgement of the problems and disappointment. It is a wise company that tells the truth and protects their reputation particularly one that seeks to emphasise their luxury and high service levels.  

 

Cunard has had its problems on recent sailings regarding the service it was able to offer and has clearly taken the brave decision to say it wasn't good enough and we won't allow others to be disappointed on board.

 

Are they asking for volunteers first like the airlines do when they overbook? ? Or are they just picking people based on a criteria? And, if so, what is the criteria?

 

My wife and I are cruising out of Southampton on a two week Ireland and Iceland cruise in three weeks, but if Celebrity said "Here is all of your money back and 50% FCC if you volunteer to cancel", then I would probably just take a train for those two weeks to see the UK. 🙂 Man, thinking about it, that would be a tough call. LOL! 🙂

[Arizona Wildcat]

4 hours ago, Algebralovr said:

In the US, the foreign crew still need an I-95 work visa.  They also have to complete the I-94 when they first arrive in the US. 

And the processing on those is slow.  Also vaccinations of "approved" vaccines difficult outside the US.  There is no good solution today.  As I stated before I know of 3 long time crew that cannot jump through the hoops to get back on board - 2 butlers and a waiter.  Have to guessing there are others.

 

As for processing in the US - wow.  A relative who is Canadian applied 2 years ago to renew his green card.  It expired last July and he returned to Canada.  Try and get government moving?  How?  Need approved vaccinations in India and elsewhere?  How?

 

How do you plan for the change between February with full crew and 1/3 capacity of passengers (a couple hundred cancelling at last minute) to today with about 80% crew (lots in quarantine) to cruises close to full?

Apex recently had a bunch of covid - both passengers and crew.  How do you predict when a group of staff from one area become ill.

 

The idea of Celebrity intentionally providing substandard service is ludicrous.   Is it not too easy to sail on Princess, NCL or Holland?  

 

So Cunard has cancelled many passenger reservations to match crew and passengers.  That sounds great unless YOU are the passenger they cancell.  As for a 25% FCC - I am paying for upcoming this cruise with FCCs from prior cancellations.

 

As we await our sold out Iceland cruise in August; I remind myself to be patient and flexible.  The alternative is to stay home.

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Arizona Wildcat

[Oville]

Just watched NBC Nightly News and the lack of staff in tourist areas was one of the stories.  Businesses on Cape Cod (as well as Michigan, Maine and California and others) are having a very difficult time finding summer help again this year. I happen to live on Cape Cod and in Naples FL as well as vacation in Maine and have experienced first hand what Covid has done to the service industry in these places since Spring 2020.

Sadly some people think they’re just getting screwed and the glass is half empty.  I’ve witnessed what’s going on for two plus years and don’t think what the OP wrote about Celebrity is true:  “I’m sure that there are financial analysts in Miami are thinking that people are sailing on the Summit with this level of staffing, let’s extend it to the rest of the fleet.”  Everyone is hurting.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Oville

[hcat]

X  should  establish a staff to passenger ratio for dining,  room attendants and just about everything needed to a better than low budget cruise.  Build in a  projection for quarantined staff. 

 

 Cruise Res  should be  limited to the  numbers they can  realistically accomodate ..seems like they are " overbooking"  more than  what they can handle. They need not recover lost profits in such a darn hurry.

 

Not fair to cruisers or overworked staff.

 

To OP..try to enjoy!

 

[Oville]

2 minutes ago, hcat said:

X  should  establish a staff to passenger ratio for dining,  room attendants and just about everything needed to a better than low budget cruise.  Build in a  projection for quarantined staff. 

 

 Cruise Res  should be  limited to the  numbers they can  realistically accomodate ..seems like they are " overbooking"  more than  what they can handle. They need not recover lost profits in such a darn hurry.

 

Not fair to cruisers or overworked staff.

 

To OP..try to enjoy!

 

I think reasonable people realize things will be different or hopefully they will.

Are back in Venice.