Covid for cruiseships is over

[Kiwi_cruiser]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:02 PM, NSWP said:

God help us if they do drop the testing, covid positive people boarding a ship and spreading it to others is not on.  What concerns me is the possibility ships coming here from North America with pax who have not been tested and are not vaccinated, that may happen.

 

We are booked on the Majestic Princess from the USA to NZ, so it will be interesting to see what testing requirements we will need to do, before we get on her in September 2022.

[arxcards]

1 hour ago, Kiwi_cruiser said:

 

We are booked on the Majestic Princess from the USA to NZ, so it will be interesting to see what testing requirements we will need to do, before we get on her in September 2022.

Longer cruise. 99% sure nothing will change by then.

[Mareblu]

Cunard has altered its pre-embarkation testing requirements.  Up until a few days ago, a negative PCR test was required to be taken within 48 hours of boarding.  Now they only require a "self" RAT or similar, with no evidence other than passengers' assertion that they have taken the test and it was negative.  Why bother even stipulating this easily-flouted requirement?  Hopefully, the majority of passengers will be honest, but humanity being how it is .......

[vegemeter]

4 hours ago, Mareblu said:

Cunard has altered its pre-embarkation testing requirements.  Up until a few days ago, a negative PCR test was required to be taken within 48 hours of boarding.  Now they only require a "self" RAT or similar, with no evidence other than passengers' assertion that they have taken the test and it was negative.  Why bother even stipulating this easily-flouted requirement?  Hopefully, the majority of passengers will be honest, but humanity being how it is .......

 

Sorry to play devils advocate but I simply do not accept the narrative that importing millions of pax via Australia's airports is somehow "safer" or "bringing in less cases" than debarking thousands of passengers at cruise ports into Australia.

 

Common sense prevails.

 

[Mareblu]

1 minute ago, vegemeter said:

 

Sorry to play devils advocate but I simply do not accept the narrative that importing millions of pax via Australia's airports is somehow "safer" or "bringing in less cases" than debarking thousands of passengers at cruise ports into Australia.

 

Common sense prevails.

 

I completely agree

[vegemeter]

Just now, Mareblu said:

I completely agree

 

Airlines have gotten away with too much in the past three years, no testing, exporting nasty variants all over the world.

 

Did you note Cunard's policy about debarking passengers if the port authority requires it? I wondered if other lines have implemented this in their policies particularly in relation to Asia and Australia. Does anyone know if QLD debark passengers looking to fill their very expensive taxpayer funded quarantine hotel or Singapore or Perth for that matter?

[Mareblu]

1 hour ago, vegemeter said:

 

Airlines have gotten away with too much in the past three years, no testing, exporting nasty variants all over the world.

 

Did you note Cunard's policy about debarking passengers if the port authority requires it? I wondered if other lines have implemented this in their policies particularly in relation to Asia and Australia. Does anyone know if QLD debark passengers looking to fill their very expensive taxpayer funded quarantine hotel or Singapore or Perth for that matter?

Yes, noted, and Qld should be scrambling to fill that white elephant

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, Mareblu said:

Yes, noted, and Qld should be scrambling to fill that white elephant

No. The Q'ld government has announced that they won't be using the Wellcamp facility. We still have to pay for (I think it is) another year. I recall that on TV a couple of nights ago, the timeline was mentioned - Q'ld signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Aust government for them to build a quarantine facility at Pinkenba, and after that, the Ql'd government decided to go ahead with the Wellcamp facility. The owners of the land (the Wagner brothers) had suggested it much earlier in the pandemic, but no decision had been made. It could have been OK if it was built then instead of using quarantine hotels.

[Mareblu]

23 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

No. The Q'ld government has announced that they won't be using the Wellcamp facility. We still have to pay for (I think it is) another year. I recall that on TV a couple of nights ago, the timeline was mentioned - Q'ld signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Aust government for them to build a quarantine facility at Pinkenba, and after that, the Ql'd government decided to go ahead with the Wellcamp facility. The owners of the land (the Wagner brothers) had suggested it much earlier in the pandemic, but no decision had been made. It could have been OK if it was built then instead of using quarantine hotels.

Yes, that time has passed.  Aspen Medical the only winner, I think.  Clever senior management though, a Canberra firm.  Grass roots local to huge international profile.

[arxcards]

2 hours ago, vegemeter said:

 

Airlines have gotten away with too much in the past three years, no testing, exporting nasty variants all over the world.

 

Did you note Cunard's policy about debarking passengers if the port authority requires it? I wondered if other lines have implemented this in their policies particularly in relation to Asia and Australia. Does anyone know if QLD debark passengers looking to fill their very expensive taxpayer funded quarantine hotel or Singapore or Perth for that matter?

The cruise lines are currently placing passengers (that don't have their own transport or live more than two hours from the port) into a local hotel to complete quarantine. That only applies to those testing positive aboard and haven't yet completed a 7 day isolation period. No government funded ISO.

 

So far, the port authorities in Oz have only been requiring pre-debarkation testing on ships that have reported an elevated number of infections (more than 3% of passengers/crew).

[vegemeter]

19 hours ago, arxcards said:

The cruise lines are currently placing passengers (that don't have their own transport or live more than two hours from the port) into a local hotel to complete quarantine. That only applies to those testing positive aboard and haven't yet completed a 7 day isolation period. No government funded ISO.

 

So far, the port authorities in Oz have only been requiring pre-debarkation testing on ships that have reported an elevated number of infections (more than 3% of passengers/crew).

It may apply to the iso period onboard, but what I have noticed in Cunards policy is different. There are a few policies floating about at the moment that suggest port authorities must abide by their jurisdictions requirements and have the power to disembark passengers with Covid. I.e pax aboard who have Covid are disembarked to complete Quarantine in a hotel whilst the cruise continues onwards to another destination. Imagine that if you’ve paid for the Queens grill…

[Mareblu]

16 minutes ago, vegemeter said:

It may apply to the iso period onboard, but what I have noticed in Cunards policy is different. There are a few policies floating about at the moment that suggest port authorities must abide by their jurisdictions requirements and have the power to disembark passengers with Covid. I.e pax aboard who have Covid are disembarked to complete Quarantine in a hotel whilst the cruise continues onwards to another destination. Imagine that if you’ve paid for the Queens grill…

It depends on the itinerary.  Cunard’s policy is to offer future ccs for the entire cost of the cruise to passengers suffering covid within 14 days prior to embarkation, and (without checking) I’m fairly certain will do the same for the number of days spent in designated isolation accommodation aboard.  Thus, however, is a changing landscape, so we check ea h day for alterations. All cruise lines would be required to be abide by laws governing the ports where their vessels dock, it would stand to reason. Oceania allows covid patients to remain confined in their booked suites or staterooms till returning a negative test result.

[arxcards]

2 hours ago, vegemeter said:

It may apply to the iso period onboard, but what I have noticed in Cunards policy is different. There are a few policies floating about at the moment that suggest port authorities must abide by their jurisdictions requirements and have the power to disembark passengers with Covid. I.e pax aboard who have Covid are disembarked to complete Quarantine in a hotel whilst the cruise continues onwards to another destination. Imagine that if you’ve paid for the Queens grill…

The lines here currently allow for you to remain on the ship till your cruise is over, unless you are significantly unwell and you need medical care. It is cheaper for them to isolate you on their ship than to offload you. I haven't looked to see if Cunard will be doing anything different here, or if they have even specified anything. I believe the local protocols require the cruise line to be responsible for your iso.

 

Even aboard any ship currently here, they can move you from your top cabin and into their block of iso cabins anyway.

[vegemeter]

 

@MarebluGenuine question - how have Oceania subverted port or maritime law then? 😆

 

Celebrity:

 

Pro-rated cruise fare refund for anyone who has their cruise cut short due to testing positive for COVID-19 or being suspected of having COVID-19 during the cruise.  If the Celebrity cruise you book will sail from the European Union or the United Kingdom between May 1, 2022, and November 30, 2022, you’ll also have the following reassurance at no extra charge: If you test positive for COVID-19 during the cruise, Celebrity will cover the cost of COVID-19 related medical treatment onboard; you and your Traveling Party may stay onboard the ship for free to complete any required quarantine and Celebrity will help coordinate homebound travel arrangements for you and your Traveling Party, but without covering the cost.

 

Cunard:

 

Our dedicated medical teams will also be on hand to take care of you, either for the duration of your required isolation period, until the next port of call, or until your scheduled port of disembarkation Any instances of positive cases on board will be managed by our on board medical teams in conjunction with the local port authority to determine the best course of action. The framework of protocols for cruise ships can differ slightly to those on land and to other forms of travel. Some ports may require guests and their close contacts who test positive on board to disembark in port and continue their period of isolation ashore. If you’re required to disembark the ship for this reason, we’ll work with the local authorities to secure the most appropriate accommodation for your period of isolation ashore. In most instances, this will be a pre-determined hotel, which has been identified as able to accommodate positive cases of Covid-19. Our dedicated support team will help you to contact your travel insurance provider. However, if your insurance doesn’t cover your required disembarkation arrangements, we will organise and pay for your isolation stay and journey home*.

 

So - which ports are those identified in Cunard's policy? I do not like the idea that innocent bystanders who were 'close contacts' might be shuffled off in a country with poor healthcare services to fill their local hotels with insurance money.

[arxcards]

6 hours ago, vegemeter said:

 

@MarebluGenuine question - how have Oceania subverted port or maritime law then? 😆

 

Celebrity:

 

Pro-rated cruise fare refund for anyone who has their cruise cut short due to testing positive for COVID-19 or being suspected of having COVID-19 during the cruise.  If the Celebrity cruise you book will sail from the European Union or the United Kingdom between May 1, 2022, and November 30, 2022, you’ll also have the following reassurance at no extra charge: If you test positive for COVID-19 during the cruise, Celebrity will cover the cost of COVID-19 related medical treatment onboard; you and your Traveling Party may stay onboard the ship for free to complete any required quarantine and Celebrity will help coordinate homebound travel arrangements for you and your Traveling Party, but without covering the cost.

 

Cunard:

 

Our dedicated medical teams will also be on hand to take care of you, either for the duration of your required isolation period, until the next port of call, or until your scheduled port of disembarkation Any instances of positive cases on board will be managed by our on board medical teams in conjunction with the local port authority to determine the best course of action. The framework of protocols for cruise ships can differ slightly to those on land and to other forms of travel. Some ports may require guests and their close contacts who test positive on board to disembark in port and continue their period of isolation ashore. If you’re required to disembark the ship for this reason, we’ll work with the local authorities to secure the most appropriate accommodation for your period of isolation ashore. In most instances, this will be a pre-determined hotel, which has been identified as able to accommodate positive cases of Covid-19. Our dedicated support team will help you to contact your travel insurance provider. However, if your insurance doesn’t cover your required disembarkation arrangements, we will organise and pay for your isolation stay and journey home*.

 

So - which ports are those identified in Cunard's policy? I do not like the idea that innocent bystanders who were 'close contacts' might be shuffled off in a country with poor healthcare services to fill their local hotels with insurance money.

Australian ports don't require you to disembark before the end of your cruise. For anywhere else, I guess that requires individual research for each person's itinerary.

 

Close contacts are not innocent bystanders. They are others in your travel party or sharing the same cabin.

[bazzaw]

52 minutes ago, arxcards said:

Australian ports don't require you to disembark before the end of your cruise. For anywhere else, I guess that requires individual research for each person's itinerary.

 

Close contacts are not innocent bystanders. They are others in your travel party or sharing the same cabin.

They are "innocent" in that they may or may NOT have Covid themselves. As I keep saying , IMO, the Administrative consequences of contracting Covid are causing more disruption than the Covid itself. Until this paranoia fades away, I am not intending to go anywhere on a cruise ship. 

[MicCanberra]

58 minutes ago, bazzaw said:

They are "innocent" in that they may or may NOT have Covid themselves. As I keep saying , IMO, the Administrative consequences of contracting Covid are causing more disruption than the Covid itself. Until this paranoia fades away, I am not intending to go anywhere on a cruise ship. 

You may be right, I will still take our chances.

[arxcards]

54 minutes ago, bazzaw said:

They are "innocent" in that they may or may NOT have Covid themselves. As I keep saying , IMO, the Administrative consequences of contracting Covid are causing more disruption than the Covid itself. Until this paranoia fades away, I am not intending to go anywhere on a cruise ship. 

There are a couple of points that make it hard to clarify breaking-up a travel party.

- How do you compensate one person in a cabin, while the other is still using the full facility of the ship. Whether put off the ship or not, they would still be kept in isolation anyway.

- The parents have covid and their kids don't.

And in practicality, most negative people would prefer to be disembarked along with their positive partner/family member anyway. As for local cruises, nobody is being disembarked mid-cruise anyway. Pretty sure the Pacific Islands would also prefer you remain confined to your cabin too.

 

Innocent, maybe, but not innocent bystanders such as dining companions or the person you sat next to in a tender. That was what I was quoting from the previous post.

 

No offense, but there is just as much paranoia of what may happen, as there is from authorities trying to set rules to prevent ship outbreaks, which would appear to be warranted based on recent weeks. 

[Mareblu]

10 hours ago, vegemeter said:

 

@MarebluGenuine question - how have Oceania subverted port or maritime law then? 😆

 

Celebrity:

 

Pro-rated cruise fare refund for anyone who has their cruise cut short due to testing positive for COVID-19 or being suspected of having COVID-19 during the cruise.  If the Celebrity cruise you book will sail from the European Union or the United Kingdom between May 1, 2022, and November 30, 2022, you’ll also have the following reassurance at no extra charge: If you test positive for COVID-19 during the cruise, Celebrity will cover the cost of COVID-19 related medical treatment onboard; you and your Traveling Party may stay onboard the ship for free to complete any required quarantine and Celebrity will help coordinate homebound travel arrangements for you and your Traveling Party, but without covering the cost.

 

Cunard:

 

Our dedicated medical teams will also be on hand to take care of you, either for the duration of your required isolation period, until the next port of call, or until your scheduled port of disembarkation Any instances of positive cases on board will be managed by our on board medical teams in conjunction with the local port authority to determine the best course of action. The framework of protocols for cruise ships can differ slightly to those on land and to other forms of travel. Some ports may require guests and their close contacts who test positive on board to disembark in port and continue their period of isolation ashore. If you’re required to disembark the ship for this reason, we’ll work with the local authorities to secure the most appropriate accommodation for your period of isolation ashore. In most instances, this will be a pre-determined hotel, which has been identified as able to accommodate positive cases of Covid-19. Our dedicated support team will help you to contact your travel insurance provider. However, if your insurance doesn’t cover your required disembarkation arrangements, we will organise and pay for your isolation stay and journey home*.

 

So - which ports are those identified in Cunard's policy? I do not like the idea that innocent bystanders who were 'close contacts' might be shuffled off in a country with poor healthcare services to fill their local hotels with insurance money.

Please re-read my post #112.  I wrote that it depends on the itinerary, …. all vessels would be required to abide by the laws governing the ports where they dock.  Oceania, and Cunard, for that matter, accommodate covid patients in isolation aboard, unless required to disembark them.  There are only a very few ports we will be visiting on both upcoming cruises requiring that measure.  Greece, on our repositioning cruise with many days at sea, was one, but has apparently recently dropped that requirement.  We share Mike’s philosophy.  We’re sailing.

[vegemeter]

9 hours ago, Mareblu said:

Please re-read my post #112.  I wrote that it depends on the itinerary, …. all vessels would be required to abide by the laws governing the ports where they dock.  Oceania, and Cunard, for that matter, accommodate covid patients in isolation aboard, unless required to disembark them.  There are only a very few ports we will be visiting on both upcoming cruises requiring that measure.  Greece, on our repositioning cruise with many days at sea, was one, but has apparently recently dropped that requirement.  We share Mike’s philosophy.  We’re sailing.

 

Thanks. I believe we're sailing on the same Cunard repo cruise as you. Do you know which other ports on that itinerary have that measure at present?

 

11 hours ago, arxcards said:

There are a couple of points that make it hard to clarify breaking-up a travel party.

- How do you compensate one person in a cabin, while the other is still using the full facility of the ship. Whether put off the ship or not, they would still be kept in isolation anyway.

- The parents have covid and their kids don't.

And in practicality, most negative people would prefer to be disembarked along with their positive partner/family member anyway. As for local cruises, nobody is being disembarked mid-cruise anyway. Pretty sure the Pacific Islands would also prefer you remain confined to your cabin too.

 

Innocent, maybe, but not innocent bystanders such as dining companions or the person you sat next to in a tender. That was what I was quoting from the previous post.

 

No offense, but there is just as much paranoia of what may happen, as there is from authorities trying to set rules to prevent ship outbreaks, which would appear to be warranted based on recent weeks. 

 

No offense taken and agreed. The issue is that 'close contacts' is not a defined term - I can't seem to find any port authority literature on it. If you've shared a spa with someone, or dined next to them, are you at risk (according to that port).

 

Perhaps there is also an element of preparation for the CDC lifting their mandates on the 8th August which may result in American pax refusing to act decently. Personally, I would prefer not to share a ship with unvaccinated pax nor non-mask wearing pax who have forgotten that ships, planes, busses and trains spread communicable diseases.

Edited August 2, 2022 by vegemeter

[Mareblu]

2 hours ago, vegemeter said:

 

Thanks. I believe we're sailing on the same Cunard repo cruise as you. Do you know which other ports on that itinerary have that measure at present?

Looking forward to meeting you on the cruise.  No, I’m unsure of any of the few ports we visit with that directive, but when I looked them all up on Cunard’s guide to covid protocols for specific ports, all I could find was that none required testing to disembark, so that’s encouraging.  Nowhere can I find a list of ports requiring disembarkation and land isolation for covid positive passengers.  I do note that Cunard has just changed the number of days for registering a positive result prior to embarkation from 14 to 10 for the purposes of Cunard granting FCCs for the full amount of the cruise.

2 hours ago, vegemeter said:

 

[arxcards]

10 hours ago, vegemeter said:

 

Thanks. I believe we're sailing on the same Cunard repo cruise as you. Do you know which other ports on that itinerary have that measure at present?

 

 

No offense taken and agreed. The issue is that 'close contacts' is not a defined term - I can't seem to find any port authority literature on it. If you've shared a spa with someone, or dined next to them, are you at risk (according to that port).

 

Perhaps there is also an element of preparation for the CDC lifting their mandates on the 8th August which may result in American pax refusing to act decently. Personally, I would prefer not to share a ship with unvaccinated pax nor non-mask wearing pax who have forgotten that ships, planes, busses and trains spread communicable diseases.

In your favour here, around the world, cruise ships are reluctant to test. The more they test, the higher their numbers to report to the ports on their itinerary and CDC or the like. Regular cases in the US of passengers wanting to be tested after considering themselves as close contacts, but the ships would only test anyone presenting with symptoms. The only people considered close contacts for testing are those in the same cabin as well as family members in other cabins. There is still a real risk of catching it from someone else aboard, but much less likely to be found positive via almost non-existent contact screening. The cruise lines are largely avoiding ports that require routine testing.

[joejoe 59]

On 8/2/2022 at 7:27 AM, MicCanberra said:

You may be right, I will still take our chances.

I agree with you,  otherwise we could be waiting forever.

[vegemeter]

12 hours ago, arxcards said:

 The more they test, the higher their numbers to report to the ports on their itinerary and CDC or the like.

 

Airports have had a sweetheart deal of it all. 

[NSWP]

And if the true covid numbers were released by the cruiselines, that could well be the death of cruising in Australia and New Zealand.