NCL Breakaway 07-17-22 HAVEN SUITE NO TOILET

[hallux]

5 minutes ago, MsMidge said:

If that were the case, and they knew for sure, it shouldn’t have taken 3 days, regardless what you read here, dont be fooled!

I guess you didn't read the post I linked above, from a former engineer on cruise ships, where he said there certainly ARE situations involving clogged waste pipes that can result in days of work to resolve the issue.

[luvcruzing]

On 7/24/2022 at 4:17 PM, david_sobe said:

trivial issues

trivial issues ???? - surely you jest

[PATRLR]

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

You may want to go back and read what you wrote that it "Should NOT' take 3 days to fix a line problem.   

What I wrote was "It shouldn't take 3 days to fix a plumbing problem on a ship like the Encore."

To which you replied: "So NCL purposely took 3 days to fix everything when they could have gotten it fixed in one day?   Not only is NCL to blame for someone's pratfall but now they are purposely delaying to fix the problem?  "

 

It is that twisting of my words that I objected to. I never said they did anything "purposefully".  I just said it shouldn't have happened.  And I stand by that statement, it shouldn't take 3 days to fix a plumbing problem.

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

What expertise do you have to make such a statement? 

If you must know, I am a licensed mechanical contractor for over 35 years.  And believe it or not land based mechanical contractors are frequently are engaged to work on large ships in port. That being said, I've never personally worked on the mechanicals in a cruise ship.

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

 You are a maritime plumber who was on board and diagnosed the problem? 

Of course not, but that shouldn't matter because I very clearly stated "I have no idea why it took 3 days" which most reasonable people would infer means that I don't know what the root problem was.  I also said "Maybe they don't have the right expertise..." and  "maybe they needed parts..."  - more indication that I didn't know what the problem was.  I'm sorry you weren't able to comprehend these basic facts from what I wrote, hopefully you understand now.

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

I never twisted any of your words. 

Yeah you did, see the first point in this post and the next one. 

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

 Now you are saying NCL does not have properly trained mechanics and plumbers that have no expertise?  Just wow.  How would you know that?   

And this is another example of you twisting my words.  I used the word "maybe".  I'm sure you know what that word means.  The fact that you take my "maybe" and change it to a definitive statement ("you are saying NCL does not have properly trained mechanics and plumbers...") is in fact twisting my words.

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

Clogged toilets happen on ever cruise ship almost every sailing.  

I think everyone agrees on that point, I certainly never said anything to the contrary.

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

 Its not NCL's fault it was so bad it clogged major lines and impacted many and took a few days to fix.  

Oh - so you know what the problem was ("clogged major lines")?  You are a a maritime plumber who was on board and diagnosed the problem?  Why didn't you say so?  Can you explain exactly what you and the maintenance team were doing for 72 hours to unclog that line?

 

13 hours ago, david_sobe said:

You realize if cruise lines cancelled a cruise for a few clogged toilets that ships would never sail.

I never said anything about cancelling cruises.  Where did that come from?  It would be much easier to understand and follow your points if you weren't all over the place with them. 

[odie1024]

So this happened because some idiot put something in the toilet that they should not have. This happened to us 2 days in a row on the Epic in February. NCL unclogged it and the next day it was clogged again. We actually did not get a thing. This is not the fault of NCL so I agree with the person who suggested something around 20%. Why is it always about " how much can I get from a company". 

[Taishartrueblood]

5 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

 

What I wrote was "It shouldn't take 3 days to fix a plumbing problem on a ship like the Encore."

To which you replied: "So NCL purposely took 3 days to fix everything when they could have gotten it fixed in one day?   Not only is NCL to blame for someone's pratfall but now they are purposely delaying to fix the problem?  "

 

It is that twisting of my words that I objected to. I never said they did anything "purposefully".  I just said it shouldn't have happened.  And I stand by that statement, it shouldn't take 3 days to fix a plumbing problem.

 

If you must know, I am a licensed mechanical contractor for over 35 years.  And believe it or not land based mechanical contractors are frequently are engaged to work on large ships in port. That being said, I've never personally worked on the mechanicals in a cruise ship.

 

Of course not, but that shouldn't matter because I very clearly stated "I have no idea why it took 3 days" which most reasonable people would infer means that I don't know what the root problem was.  I also said "Maybe they don't have the right expertise..." and  "maybe they needed parts..."  - more indication that I didn't know what the problem was.  I'm sorry you weren't able to comprehend these basic facts from what I wrote, hopefully you understand now.

 

Yeah you did, see the first point in this post and the next one. 

 

And this is another example of you twisting my words.  I used the word "maybe".  I'm sure you know what that word means.  The fact that you take my "maybe" and change it to a definitive statement ("you are saying NCL does not have properly trained mechanics and plumbers...") is in fact twisting my words.

 

I think everyone agrees on that point, I certainly never said anything to the contrary.

 

Oh - so you know what the problem was ("clogged major lines")?  You are a a maritime plumber who was on board and diagnosed the problem?  Why didn't you say so?  Can you explain exactly what you and the maintenance team were doing for 72 hours to unclog that line?

 

I never said anything about cancelling cruises.  Where did that come from?  It would be much easier to understand and follow your points if you weren't all over the place with them. 

 

David Sobe is being a jerk, ignore him. You have been polite and honest in your statements, as far as i can tell, and you almost certainly have more expertise than anyone here since you are a large scale mechanical engineer.

[MsMidge]

1 hour ago, scooter6139 said:

 

You should really educate yourself first before jumping to this conclusion.  As stated elsewhere by someone who knows all about Cruise ships, this can take several days to resolve.

And you believe it?   Just because they post something on an internet does not mean its true.  I worked in the same industry for decades, but that doesn’t mean I know everything about that industry, but I’m smart enough to know what I dont know.  The only way a clog would take 3 days get clear would be due to incompetence.  

[MsMidge]

15 minutes ago, odie1024 said:

So this happened because some idiot put something in the toilet that they should not have. This happened to us 2 days in a row on the Epic in February. NCL unclogged it and the next day it was clogged again. We actually did not get a thing. This is not the fault of NCL so I agree with the person who suggested something around 20%. Why is it always about " how much can I get from a company". 

So was your toilet not working for 6 days?  Maybe this time it wasn’t a clog at all.  Clogs are not the only thing that makes ships toilets not work.  It’s not some magical system, they’re are a multiple of parts involved

[MsMidge]

1 hour ago, notscb said:

 

Ok...but this is the discussion we're having, so what else would you have us do? (Also, this incident was well documented by another thread on this same forum, so I really don't know what you're saying).

 

Most Credit card disputes don't work like that. The cruise line will point to their contract of carriage and say "we fulfilled our end of our cruise contract" and the case will be open and shut. OP is really looking for a goodwill gesture in this case.

Regardless of the contract of carriage, consumers have laws that protect them.  The credit card company may just agree and say item not as described, the consumer did not get what they pay for.  CC disputes are a benefit of using a credit card.

[The Shrike]

Edited comment out, as it was already thoroughly answered by Hallux, twice...to absolutely no effect, apparently.  🙄

Edited July 27, 2022 by The Shrike

[The Shrike]

 

54 minutes ago, MsMidge said:

And you believe it?   Just because they post something on an internet does not mean its true.  I worked in the same industry for decades, but that doesn’t mean I know everything about that industry, but I’m smart enough to know what I dont know.  The only way a clog would take 3 days get clear would be due to incompetence.  

Why should anyone believe what you say given your second sentence above?

[Turtles06]

3 hours ago, scooter6139 said:

 

You should really educate yourself first before jumping to this conclusion.  As stated elsewhere by someone who knows all about Cruise ships, this can take several days to resolve.

 

2 hours ago, MsMidge said:

And you believe it?   Just because they post something on an internet does not mean its true.  I worked in the same industry for decades, but that doesn’t mean I know everything about that industry, but I’m smart enough to know what I dont know.  The only way a clog would take 3 days get clear would be due to incompetence.  

 

I don't know if you have followed his posts over the years here on CC, but the poster to whom @scooter6139  and others have referred --  @chengkp75 [the "cheng" meaning Chief Engineer] -- is one of the most knowledgeable contributors we have here, and we have been fortunate to have had the benefit of his wisdom on a variety of subjects within his area of experience and expertise.  Here is what he posted the other day in another Breakaway thread about clogs in plumbing lines on cruise ships; it has been linked to earlier in this thread but perhaps you haven't read it. In any event, it's not a bunch of nonsense on the internet.

 

 "am frankly surprised that there haven't been more complaints about blocked toilets.  And, it could very well have taken 4 days to resolve, depending on what was flushed, and where it lodged.  I've had two events that took days to resolve, one where a passenger decided it would be a good idea to flush their bikini down the hopper, and it lodged in a bend in the pipes that was particularly hard to reach with the roto-rooter to chop it out.  The second was when a passenger decided it would be great fun to flush a hand towel down the hopper, and this also lodged where we were lying on top of ductwork, in the overhead against a steel bulkhead, trying to chop this out.  Due to that position, it required three plumbers at a time to operate and feed the roto-rooter in, and then it took days of cutting to get it clear, working shifts around the clock." 

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2868448-norwegian-breakaway-stay-away/#comment-63629179

 

[MoCruiseFan]

On 7/23/2022 at 2:18 PM, wsb225 said:

My question for everyone is what would feel is appropriate consideration for this very large inconvenience?  A future cruise credit?  A credit against your current shipboard charges?  A rebate on the current cruise fare?   
 

 

None

[MoCruiseFan]

On 7/23/2022 at 6:38 PM, Pizzasteve said:

Agree the amount seems ok, but FCC is not a very reasonable offer to me.   I would demand a refund equal to that amount, as you may never cruise again.  You had to walk to a 'shared toilet' what, maybe 2 times a day for 6 trips pp?  

 

Demand LOL...

[PATRLR]

9 hours ago, Taishartrueblood said:

you almost certainly have more expertise than anyone here since you are a large scale mechanical engineer.

Thank you for the kind words.  But, to be clear I am not an engineer, I was a mechanical contractor. However,  I most definitely defer to the expertise of chengkp75 here who has stated that it could take days to unclog something.  I take chengkp75 at his word but running a roto-rotor on the same clog for 3 days straight, by 3 men, is beyond my imagination.

[PATRLR]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:20 AM, Turtles06 said:

 But not having a working toilet in one’s cabin for three entire days essentially renders the cabin uninhabitable.  

In many municipalities the residence would be condemned - meaning people couldn't live there until it was fixed. 

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, MsMidge said:

And you believe it?   Just because they post something on an internet does not mean its true.  I worked in the same industry for decades, but that doesn’t mean I know everything about that industry, but I’m smart enough to know what I dont know.  The only way a clog would take 3 days get clear would be due to incompetence.  

 

13 hours ago, MsMidge said:

So was your toilet not working for 6 days?  Maybe this time it wasn’t a clog at all.  Clogs are not the only thing that makes ships toilets not work.  It’s not some magical system, they’re are a multiple of parts involved

Okay, this time I'm not going to let this go.  Based on your statement in the first post above, you have cleared clogs in vacuum toilet systems in order to state as fact that only incompetence would cause a 3 day repair.  Then you say that you know there are other reasons for toilets not working, again showing knowledge of the system, so perhaps you could enlighten a poor soul who is posing as a marine engineer as to what those causes could be?

 

For those who say that the cruise lines will fine a passenger for flushing things down the toilet, that is mainly a deterrent threat.  Unless the clog is right at the toilet, it is difficult to find the exact culprit, as things that cause clogs can travel along until it finds just the right spot that snags it.  While my plumbers (those fictitious ones I make up) were pretty good about narrowing down the source of a clog to several cabins, as stated, finding the exact culprit is almost impossible, unless they have a nametag in their clothes.  There are no "main lines" in a vacuum toilet system.  Unlike land based systems where the size of the sewage pipe increases as more toilets and sinks are plumbed in, a vacuum toilet system maintains the same small 2" piping from the highest deck to the engine room, and from bow to stern.  Some toilets even flush up to the deck above if that was the best design option.

 

Now, unlike some posters who claim knowledge of the systems, without providing examples, here are a few examples of why toilets don't work on cruise ships.  I will deal with cases where multiple toilets don't work, since a single non-working toilet is traced to that toilet, and can be fixed within an hour.  First, there would be a total loss of vacuum in the system due to a pump failure in the engine room.  This is mitigated in the design stage by having 3-4 pumps in staggered standby for each system, so this is again something that would be fixed within minutes, if it even resulted in a down system in the first place.  Then there is the "sucking toilet", where the discharge valve on one toilet is stuck open.  This will relieve the vacuum for the entire system, but is easily found by walking down the passageways, listening at the sanitary lockers at each cabin for the distinctive "sucking" sound of a runaway vacuum cleaner.  Again, once located, it is quickly fixed.  Lastly we get to the clogged pipe.  This is akin to sucking a golf ball up your vacuum cleaner.  While there is still suction between the stuck golf ball and the vacuum cleaner motor, this doesn't do any good, as there is no suction between the golf ball and the end of the hose.  So, wherever the clog happens in the piping, everyone "downstream" will still have working toilets, and everyone "upstream" will not.

 

I won't repeat my experiences (and those are only two of the many I've had over 40 years of maintaining vacuum toilet systems), but there are very good reasons, other than incompetency, that a clog would take 3 or more days to clear.  Not all do, but some do.

 

And, as the previous poster stated, I have found that many who work on cruise ships, even senior supervisors with many years' experience, don't have the foggiest idea of how a ship works, yet are quick to claim knowledge and disparage those who have to deal with the most difficult and nastiest problems on a ship.

 

Yeah, I'm smart enough to know what I don't know, and I know vacuum toilet systems, and I know that you don't.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Thank you for the kind words.  But, to be clear I am not an engineer, I was a mechanical contractor. However,  I most definitely defer to the expertise of chengkp75 here who has stated that it could take days to unclog something.  I take chengkp75 at his word but running a roto-rotor on the same clog for 3 days straight, by 3 men, is beyond my imagination.

As I've noted, the vacuum toilet piping is 2" all the way.  It doesn't get bigger.  So, imaging a hand towel, soaking wet, shoved into a 2" pipe (about 1-3/4" diameter).  Now, shove it through 8 or 10 90* elbows until it balls up and stops.  You have 30" of vacuum on one side of the plug.  You find the closest cleanout to where the clog is, and try to get a roto-rooter around the bends to get to the clog.  Maybe you can, maybe you can't, so then you look for a place where you can cut the pipe out and reasonably introduce a rooter.  So, let's assume you get to the clog with the cutter head.  You cut away at it until is loosens, and then the vacuum in the system sucks it further down the piping, and maybe finds another spot to stop.  You then have to repeat the entire process with the clog at the new location.

3 hours ago, PATRLR said:

In many municipalities the residence would be condemned - meaning people couldn't live there until it was fixed. 

And in many places in Europe, including hotels, there are rooms without private toilets.

[PATRLR]

 

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 You cut away at it until is loosens, and then the vacuum in the system sucks it further down the piping, and maybe finds another spot to stop. 

 

Bingo - that's the situation I'd not experienced and therefore hadn't contemplated.  Thank you for explaining. 

 

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 And in many places in Europe, including hotels, there are rooms without private toilets.

And in the US as well.  But, at least in the US there is a purposeful shared toilet available.  A purposeful shared toilet is different from "your toilet doesn't work but you can use the restroom down the hall".

[rbxlady]

44 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

 

 

Bingo - that's the situation I'd not experienced and therefore hadn't contemplated.  Thank you for explaining. 

 

And in the US as well.  But, at least in the US there is a purposeful shared toilet available.  A purposeful shared toilet is different from "your toilet doesn't work but you can use the restroom down the hall".

 

OP also mentioned a smell. That would be very unpleasant, even aside from issues of not being able to use the toilet in your cabin. A lot of people are overlooking that when they say it's no big deal to have to use a "public" toilet instead. I don't want to sleep and shower in a room where it smells like sewage, and I would sincerely hope my person and belongings don't start to smell that way as well.

[almagh]

We were on this cruise in the Haven 15th floor and had no working toilet for 3.5 days. Our butler would come every day we complained and try to flush it for 2-3 minutes (like we don’t know how to push the button) and declare “well the next door cabin’s toilet is working”. I finally asked “can we use their’s?”  He always just said he would report it. Also, they would leave notices for us not to flush anything besides toilet paper. It did start to smell in the hallway. 

[scooter6139]

17 hours ago, MsMidge said:

And you believe it?   Just because they post something on an internet does not mean its true.  I worked in the same industry for decades, but that doesn’t mean I know everything about that industry, but I’m smart enough to know what I dont know.  The only way a clog would take 3 days get clear would be due to incompetence.  

 

Again, thanks for your well reasoned and super accurate assessment of the situation.  I defer to your expertise.  /s  😒

[Pizzasteve]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:21 PM, MoCruiseFan said:

Demand LOL...

What a helpful post for the OP.  I am sure the whole site admires your contribution.  Feel free to substitute the word 'request,' if the meaning of the post centered on the amount of compensation to ask for wasnt clear.  Picking one word and ignoring entire posts is a pretty immature mind at work.

 

Plenty of helpful discussion to read.  Why not add something like an adult instead of trying to attack and tear down others, like children do.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Pizzasteve

[Casino Comp Chick]

On 7/24/2022 at 4:17 PM, david_sobe said:

On Epic we were in a penthouse suite and the water valve between our penthouse and Owners suite was always malfunctioning.  We could not shower in our cabin for a few days and had to go all the way to the spa for showering (On Epic, Haven is forward and spa is aft).  It was quite the walk to shower.  No one offered anything and I would not insult myself to ask for anything.  IMHO being in the Haven has no impact on something like this.  It would be just as inconvenient being in a balcony or inside cabin.  I just did not want to go through that "we will give you a bottle of wine".  I suppose there are many people who complain about trivial issues and a bottle of cheap wine wins them over 🤣   Cruise cabins are like apartments.  Things break all the time and need repaired.  Its just what life throws at you.

I guess you were happy not getting what you paid for. Me? Not so much.

[SeaShark]

6 hours ago, Pizzasteve said:

What a helpful post for the OP.  I am sure the whole site admires your contribution.  Feel free to substitute the word 'request,' if the meaning of the post centered on the amount of compensation to ask for wasnt clear.  Picking one word and ignoring entire posts is a pretty immature mind at work.

 

Plenty of helpful discussion to read.  Why not add something like an adult instead of trying to attack and tear down others, like children do.

 

Wow...nothing like a good pot-kettle post to put someone in their place. Bravo for this.

[mjkacmom]

What I notice on this thread is the difference the importance of an in cabin working toilet is to men vs. women. I’d rate it a 9 out of 10, right up there with a/c and a bed in the cabin. I know many women who would rather hold it than poop in a public bathroom. Plus there are other issues women need to deal with in the bathroom.