Bad experience

[suzanne417]

We wanted to see Norway and Holland offered a 14 day cruise. We booked it and added a 10 day trip to Switzerland and Austria. We felt relatively comfortable cruising since Holland required all passengers and crew to be vaccinated and to take a Covid test within 3 days of boarding. We were vaccinated and boosted twice and wore masks on the ship. In addition we did. It go into the showroom and do any group excursions to ensure our health. However, Holland did not require masks indoors. Unfortunately both my husband and I came down with Covid. We were quarantined for 8 days and received no medical attention and no medication until we pled with medical to please take care of our issues. I was running fevers, had difficulty breathing and leg cramps. The medical office never once looked in on me. My husband had a complication and the doctor told him to come through the ship to take a urine culture. Even though he was positive they told him to walk through the ship but don’t talk to anyone! My husband ended up in the hospital for 3 days and is still dealing with medical issues. We requested a refund for the time we lost and were told no. They did say we could have a future cruise credit equal to the days missed that needed to be used within one year. First of all, my husband is not in good health. Secondly, why would I subject myself to Covid again when appropriate precautions are not in place. And finally it would be very difficult to go on a cruise line who I don’t trust to provide medical care when needed. I have been on 15 cruises and I have been on my last. Being in Europe, not knowing the language and having to pay for your health care is a scary thought. Our Switzerland trip was canceled and we lost a ton of money, especially on airline increased fares and change fees. Sadly Holland America sent me the standard letter stating their terms and conditions. I am so disgusted and disappointed in the way we were dismissed. I plan on sharing this information everywhere to ensure others don’t go through the same issues. 

[FlaMariner]

26 minutes ago, suzanne417 said:

First of all, my husband is not in good health.

 

Covid is everywhere.  Perhaps travel (especially far from home)

is not a good option for some folks now.

 

27 minutes ago, suzanne417 said:

Secondly, why would I subject myself to Covid again when appropriate precautions are not in place.

 

As we have seen, Covid happens even with all precautions.  Perhaps travel is not a good option for some folks now.

 

 

29 minutes ago, suzanne417 said:

And finally it would be very difficult to go on a cruise line who I don’t trust to provide medical care when needed.

 

I believe Medical care is my responsibility.  If I felt cruising on Holland America Line would put me in a bad situation health wise then I would not cruise with them either.  (I think they do a great job).  But perhaps travel is not a good option for some folks now.

 

 

 

 

[willoL]

36 minutes ago, suzanne417 said:

We were quarantined for 8 days and received no medical attention and no medication until we pled with medical to please take care of our issues. I was running fevers, had difficulty breathing and leg cramps. The medical office never once looked in on me. My husband had a complication and the doctor told him to come through the ship to take a urine culture. Even though he was positive they told him to walk through the ship but don’t talk to anyone! My husband ended up in the hospital for 3 days and is still dealing with medical issues. ...

I'm very sorry for your poor health and the frustration this is causing you while your husband is still unwell. You're probably right not to cruise again given all that you've described, certainly not while COVID still kills many thousands per week around the world.

While I'm not a fan of insurance for all travel situations (I usually take my chances and go without), the situation you've described would be exactly the kind where travel insurance could have helped a lot.

 

Though I usually skip it, my family has both evacuation insurance (we like MedJet) and a travel medical policy (GeoBlue) for our upcoming trip. Part of my reason for buying this insurance was to have international support in the event of a problem like you encountered.

 

I hope you and your husband feel better soon.

[VMax1700]

Great first paragraph, oops sorry, first post!

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

I was not aware that the medical team did room calls, I always thought that it was necessary to go to the medical centre, having previously made an appointment.

FCC is what is normally offered for 'quarantine days'.

Perhaps travel is not a good option for some folks now.

 

[kazu]

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

So sorry to hear of your experience.  Covid is always a risk, sadly especially with the new variants. 😔 I know we are all done with it but it’s not done with us.

 

The masking indoors seems to vary depending on the situation.  But if your DH is not in good health - I wonder if cruising is right for you two especially with the issues you had?  that’s concerning considering you were vaccinated and boosted.

 

I understand your disappointment but it happens to some people sadly.  

 

Hope you are feeling better and recovering well 🤞 

[dawei]

Suzanne, you certainly had a bad experience, and I'm also very sorry to hear about your  husband's medical situation.

Your second point stood out to me when reading your post: ...why would I subject myself to COVID again when appropriate measures are not in place." 

That's a very good question. I must agree that cruising does not sound like a good idea for you (at least at this period of time).  It's not just Holland America Line, but several other cruise lines have also dropped their earlier mask mandate for all onboard. Several lines just recently removed the pre-cruise COVID test requirement for short cruises (to date, HAL has not done so). 

My wife and daughter took a one week cruise in March, shortly after the mask mandate had been removed, and my DW and I both came down with COVID not long after their return home, but Holland America wasn't the only cruise line that removed the mask mandate; to my knowledge, they all did. 

 

David

[BetsyS.]

1 hour ago, suzanne417 said:

We wanted to see Norway and Holland offered a 14 day cruise. We booked it and added a 10 day trip to Switzerland and Austria. We felt relatively comfortable cruising since Holland required all passengers and crew to be vaccinated and to take a Covid test within 3 days of boarding. We were vaccinated and boosted twice and wore masks on the ship. In addition we did. It go into the showroom and do any group excursions to ensure our health. However, Holland did not require masks indoors. Unfortunately both my husband and I came down with Covid. We were quarantined for 8 days and received no medical attention and no medication until we pled with medical to please take care of our issues. I was running fevers, had difficulty breathing and leg cramps. The medical office never once looked in on me. My husband had a complication and the doctor told him to come through the ship to take a urine culture. Even though he was positive they told him to walk through the ship but don’t talk to anyone! My husband ended up in the hospital for 3 days and is still dealing with medical issues. We requested a refund for the time we lost and were told no. They did say we could have a future cruise credit equal to the days missed that needed to be used within one year. First of all, my husband is not in good health. Secondly, why would I subject myself to Covid again when appropriate precautions are not in place. And finally it would be very difficult to go on a cruise line who I don’t trust to provide medical care when needed. I have been on 15 cruises and I have been on my last. Being in Europe, not knowing the language and having to pay for your health care is a scary thought. Our Switzerland trip was canceled and we lost a ton of money, especially on airline increased fares and change fees. Sadly Holland America sent me the standard letter stating their terms and conditions. I am so disgusted and disappointed in the way we were dismissed. I plan on sharing this information everywhere to ensure others don’t go through the same issues. 

I am sorry for what you went through. I hope that you and your husband will feel

better soon.

[colin v]

My wife and I will be on the Rotterdam in 3 weeks. We have many plans in place to reduce our exposure but are certain our plan is not fool proof.

 

Where do you think you acquired covid?  Did you ride elevators with large groups?  The dining room?

What type of mask did you wear?  

Did you eat in the Lido?  
Did you use the thermal pool?

 

I'm trying to collect as much data as possible to mitigate our exposure. 
 

Thank you in advance. 

[Gray Lady]

14 minutes ago, colin v said:

My wife and I will be on the Rotterdam in 3 weeks. We have many plans in place to reduce our exposure but are certain our plan is not fool proof.

 

Where do you think you acquired covid?  Did you ride elevators with large groups?  The dining room?

What type of mask did you wear?  

Did you eat in the Lido?  
Did you use the thermal pool?

 

I'm trying to collect as much data as possible to mitigate our exposure. 
 

Thank you in advance. 

I would caution you about airports. Many, many people crowded together and most not wearing masks. Many people test pre-cruise, are negative, and still have to travel to embark on their ship. Many of these people have a false sense of security and don’t use precautionary measures. I believe it is all crap shoot as to who gets it and why. This new variant gets passed around like wildfire. Many people have mild cold or allergy symptoms not knowing they have the virus and this just adds to the contagion spreading. From personal experience, just wearing a mask all of the time when others aren’t is no guarantee. I wish you the best! 

[julia]

Trying to ascertain when and where one catches covid is foolish.

 

To the OP, you seem to be pointing fingers at the cruiseline for catching covid, yet, their "measures" were in place.  Testing, vaxxing, and masking where appropriate. I'm assuming you traveled to meet your ship, where said measures weren't required.  Had you researched these boards since cruising resumed a year ago, you might not have risked international travel at this time.  I'm sorry for your ordeal, and wish you both better health, but you must take some responsibility for traveling during a pandemic.

[SunNFunCruzer]

Hi Suzanne, thank you for posting and I'm also sorry to read about this. IIRC Holland's website has very detailed statements about what guarantees they give passengers who test positive before or during their cruise.  You should go and take a screen capture of that language and collect the contact details of others who have had similar experiences.

 

I agree that if when you booked, there were mask mandates and statements that pre-boarding testing would be required -- it seems like a bait-and-switch to take your money with certain conditions and then after final payment change the rules so significantly -- No mask mandate AND no pre-boarding testing -- without offering refunds to passengers who do not want to take that level of risk.  The Corporate offices know how much COVID is circulating on their ships and how many passengers have taken advantage of cancellation policies due to COVID positive results from the 72 hour prior pre-cruise testing.  There's a reason that they are not transparent with the infection rates.

 

If you were on the Rotterdam, there are other recent threads detailing the experiences of COVID positive passengers on those trips.  It's one thing to know that everyone who is boarding has had a negative test within 72 hours of boarding and taking the risk of exposure --- it's another to be told that everyone will have a negative test within 72 hours and then board a totally open ship with no pre-cruise testing.  I would not go to any large event indoor or outdoor without COVID tests.  Omicron is too contagious right now and human biology is sophisticated enough that there is No Way to know how COVID will affect you and/or how it will effect your organs months or years from now.  It has left 80 year old's relatively unharmed and has killed healthy 20 year olds.  As a virus it's a roll of the dice, and to take a calculated risk, you need some data to calculate that risk. 

 

Until we demand transparency, the cruise companies will do what they can to increase their profits even if that sacrifices the few.

[seaoma]

7 minutes ago, julia said:

Trying to ascertain when and where one catches covid is foolish.

 

To the OP, you seem to be pointing fingers at the cruiseline for catching covid, yet, their "measures" were in place.  Testing, vaxxing, and masking where appropriate. I'm assuming you traveled to meet your ship, where said measures weren't required.  Had you researched these boards since cruising resumed a year ago, you might not have risked international travel at this time.  I'm sorry for your ordeal, and wish you both better health, but you must take some responsibility for traveling during a pandemic.

 

No, she said they wore masks. HAL didn't require masks. Plus they are definitely not doing any social distancing. 

[SunNFunCruzer]

7 minutes ago, julia said:

To the OP, you seem to be pointing fingers at the cruiseline for catching covid, yet, their "measures" were in place.  Testing, vaxxing, and masking where appropriate.

 

How do you know the above is true about testing? On the Rotterdam for the past 3 weeks, it's my understanding that HAL has eliminated the requirement for pre-cruise testing. While I agree that airports are risk points, I believe it's also true that having the pre-board testing requirement weeded out a lot of positive cases. That doesn't mean there is no COVID on the ship, but pre-board testing is an added layer of protection, statistically.  Why do you think it was mandated in the first place?

People have COVID fatigue and are taking chances without masks, but, if you follow other message boards on the internet, many unmasked are coming home from cruises with COVID. Those who took other precautions and those who tried to have a carefree experience.  No one knows the long-term effects of COVID on our bodies. We know that other viruses can flare up at future dates and can cause long term organ damage... COVID remains unknown because it's too soon to tell. I would mask-up and take all precautions. Cruising is inherently risky.  

[seaoma]

9 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

Hi Suzanne, thank you for posting and I'm also sorry to read about this. IIRC Holland's website has very detailed statements about what guarantees they give passengers who test positive before or during their cruise.  You should go and take a screen capture of that language and collect the contact details of others who have had similar experiences.

 

I agree that if when you booked, there were mask mandates and statements that pre-boarding testing would be required -- it seems like a bait-and-switch to take your money with certain conditions and then after final payment change the rules so significantly -- No mask mandate AND no pre-boarding testing -- without offering refunds to passengers who do not want to take that level of risk.  The Corporate offices know how much COVID is circulating on their ships and how many passengers have taken advantage of cancellation policies due to COVID positive results from the 72 hour prior pre-cruise testing.  There's a reason that they are not transparent with the infection rates.

 

If you were on the Rotterdam, there are other recent threads detailing the experiences of COVID positive passengers on those trips.  It's one thing to know that everyone who is boarding has had a negative test within 72 hours of boarding and taking the risk of exposure --- it's another to be told that everyone will have a negative test within 72 hours and then board a totally open ship with no pre-cruise testing.  I would not go to any large event indoor or outdoor without COVID tests.  Omicron is too contagious right now and human biology is sophisticated enough that there is No Way to know how COVID will affect you and/or how it will effect your organs months or years from now.  It has left 80 year old's relatively unharmed and has killed healthy 20 year olds.  As a virus it's a roll of the dice, and to take a calculated risk, you need some data to calculate that risk. 

 

Until we demand transparency, the cruise companies will do what they can to increase their profits even if that sacrifices the few.

 

Your post is my position, exactly. We cruised in August and November of 2021 when they were requiring all of the public health mitigations.  Now, those protections are getting fewer and fewer, even though Kazu in her posts and a lot of us know that covid isn't done with us. 

 

You couldn't tell that from the travel industry.

 

Everyone that has FCC that is expiring at the end of this year has a choice. Either they donate their money to HAL or they use their FCC for the potential to be infected with covid. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by seaoma

[albingirl]

I've decided to do no traveling outside the US right now.  We have every kind of insurance known to man, but that does not mean it would be comfortable being sick so far away.  It's really no one's fault that covid is running wild in some spots.  Sure, masks may help, and we do wear them, but it's just inevitable that covid will lurk in every corner.  Sorry you went through a very difficult time.  Hope you both feel a whole lot better by now.

[Mary229]

I am sorry you were ill.  Cruising does not sound like an option for you.  
 

For others who may face similar circumstances remember you can ask to be removed from the ship to manage your own medical care.  The ships don’t have “teams” like medical facilities and limited equipment.  They are meant for only the most minor of emergencies and/or to make arrangements to transport the sick off of the ship. Particularly if you have frail ,health or preexisting conditions you should carry excellent travel medical insurance .  

[Mary229]

12 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

How do you know the above is true about testing? On the Rotterdam for the past 3 weeks, it's my understanding that HAL has eliminated the requirement for pre-cruise testing. While I agree that airports are risk points, I believe it's also true that having the pre-board testing requirement weeded out a lot of positive cases. That doesn't mean there is no COVID on the ship, but pre-board testing is an added layer of protection, statistically.  Why do you think it was mandated in the first place?

People have COVID fatigue and are taking chances without masks, but, if you follow other message boards on the internet, many unmasked are coming home from cruises with COVID. Those who took other precautions and those who tried to have a carefree experience.  No one knows the long-term effects of COVID on our bodies. We know that other viruses can flare up at future dates and can cause long term organ damage... COVID remains unknown because it's too soon to tell. I would mask-up and take all precautions. Cruising is inherently risky.  

If you know they aren’t testing then don’t expect testing.  If you want testing go on a line or a vacation that tests.  The rules are plainly written for all to see

[puppycanducruise]

Sorry this happened to you.  

[seaoma]

2 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

If you know they aren’t testing then don’t expect testing.  If you want testing go on a line or a vacation that tests.  The rules are plainly written for all to see

 

Surely, you have seen where the "rules" have changed after you've made your final payment? I have. 

[SunNFunCruzer]

Just now, Mary229 said:

If you know they aren’t testing then don’t expect testing.

 

They announced that there would Not be pre-cruise testing AFTER final payment -- AFTER they TOLD EVERYONE THERE WOULD BE PRE-CRUISE TESTING. It was a last minute decision by the cruise company, and it seems cruisers are suffering because of it.  They Did Not offer cruisers the option to receive a refund once they implemented this change.  There is a lack of transparency and disregard for their customers feelings, comfort and health.

 

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, seaoma said:

 

Surely, you have seen where the "rules" have changed after you've made your final payment? I have. 

If that is the case and seems to be a pattern then it is another thing to be forewarned about - that is, the rules may change.  Certainly Norway was not a good choice for someone who wanted lots of restrictions  as they were one of the first open countries. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Mary229

[seaoma]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

If that is the case and seems to be a pattern then it is another thing to be forewarned about - that is, the rules may change.  Certainly Norway was not a good choice for someone who wanted lots of restrictions  as they were one of the first open countries. 

With all due respect, HAL sold cruises without telling people that we will continue to drop covid protection protocols in the midst of global pandemic.

 

Now, if you're booking in the last 4 months, yes, but no one was told that in 2021 or early 2022.

 

In fact, it should be a warning on every confirm they send out, but it's absent.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by seaoma

[Mary229]

Just now, seaoma said:

With all due respect, HAL sold cruises without telling people that we will continue to drop covid protection protocols. 

 

Now, if you're booking in the last 4 months, yes, but no one was told that in 2021 or early 2022.

 

 

HAL has consistently said that their rules are subject to change.  It is the current lingo and has been since the beginning.  On one of my cruises I was told I would not have to mask but halfway through I was asked to and I did.  I am a person who suffers a bit from mask wearing - coughing, itching, watery eyes, etc… but I complied.  No problem as i knew things change and that is how travel will be.  Travel of every kind is very transitional, we have to be ready to adapt and adapt quickly.  

[seaoma]

Just now, Mary229 said:

HAL has consistently said that their rules are subject to change.  It is the current lingo and has been since the beginning.  On one of my cruises I was told I would not have to mask but halfway through I was asked to and I did.  I am a person who suffers a bit from mask wearing - coughing, itching, watery eyes, etc… but I complied.  No problem as i knew things change and that is how travel will be.  Travel of every kind is very transitional, we have to be ready to adapt and adapt quickly.  

 

When was your cruise? 

 

I have no qualms with a cruise change that is for the better. But to continuing to make people less safe on a cruise ship is ridiculous. 

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, seaoma said:

 

When was your cruise? 

 

I have no qualms with a cruise change that is for the better. But to continuing to make people less safe on a cruise ship is ridiculous. 

I sailed all of April, most of May continuously then again for a week in July.  The lingo is the rules change 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Mary229