Am I understanding Covid requirements correctly?

[martincath]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:08 PM, Ashland said:

No, I don't think so. We will fill out the ArriveCan 72 hours before out flight to YVR landing day of cruise departure. Why would we need to fill out another one ??

You seem to have forgotten that I warned of you of this requirement 3 weeks ago when you first posted about ArriveCAN Ashland. You responded to my post so I assumed you had read it - we certainly bounced back & forth a few times on the need to bring a device for checking email in case you were to be randomly tested.

 

Section 3) within my post was specific to this exact situation, that because you are doing an RT cruise you must make a Marine Entry trip on ArriveCAN after crossing the border but before boarding... I even went on to help you identify which port of entry you needed to use for the cruise.

 

I honestly don't know if I can be any more explicit in what you need to do where and when, but I'll give it one more try as a single short plan of recommended actions that will cover both your ArriveCAN second entry and checking the possibility of random test selection:

 

When you get off the plane, collect your bags, and get through both Immigration and Customs into the unsecured areas of YVR, look for a seat. Sit down, take out your phone and turn the darned thing on - tap into the expertise of your accompanying offspring if needed to figure out how to ensure all you have on is the WiFi, no roaming calls enabled!

 

While you are waiting the required 15mins for the email about being selected for random testing, take that time to do your second ArriveCAN - with all the hard bits already completed, Travelers saved with their Vaxx status and ID scanned in, adding a single Trip entry is literally a matter of a couple of minutes.

 

Your son will have to do the same for him/spouse and grandkids, using their saved Traveler info.

 

Your worst case if you do these actions is that you screw up turning your phone on and have to pay for a few minutes of roaming data while you think you are using the free WiFi - but you will be in compliance with both sets of gov't regulations, so you'll avoid the risk of fines that would cost an awful lot more!

 

Personally I would not use the website ArriveCAN at home, but the App - so that you can get plenty of practise using the exact same method you will be using here, with plenty of time to get it right. You can enter fake trips and delete them over and over until you feel confident using the app. Email the QR code to yourself, then open that email on your desktop if you want to print it at home - but since you will not easily be able to print off the second ArriveCAN entry, I'd suggest instead trying to do it all on your phone so you always do the same thing every time, no change of procedure for the flight vs the cruise.

 

Practise finding the QR code after you have entered a trip and then turned your phone off again - many folks recommend taking a Screenshot of the QR code, even making it your phone's home screen so it literally appears as soon as the phone is turned on, so that you do not have to reopen the app just to display the code. Since exactly how to do those things depends on your phone and it's operating system, I can't help with specifics there I'm afraid.

[Ashland]

2 hours ago, martincath said:

You seem to have forgotten that I warned of you of this requirement 3 weeks ago when you first posted about ArriveCAN Ashland. You responded to my post so I assumed you had read it - we certainly bounced back & forth a few times on the need to bring a device for checking email in case you were to be randomly tested.

 

Section 3) within my post was specific to this exact situation, that because you are doing an RT cruise you must make a Marine Entry trip on ArriveCAN after crossing the border but before boarding... I even went on to help you identify which port of entry you needed to use for the cruise.

 

I honestly don't know if I can be any more explicit in what you need to do where and when, but I'll give it one more try as a single short plan of recommended actions that will cover both your ArriveCAN second entry and checking the possibility of random test selection:

 

When you get off the plane, collect your bags, and get through both Immigration and Customs into the unsecured areas of YVR, look for a seat. Sit down, take out your phone and turn the darned thing on - tap into the expertise of your accompanying offspring if needed to figure out how to ensure all you have on is the WiFi, no roaming calls enabled!

 

While you are waiting the required 15mins for the email about being selected for random testing, take that time to do your second ArriveCAN - with all the hard bits already completed, Travelers saved with their Vaxx status and ID scanned in, adding a single Trip entry is literally a matter of a couple of minutes.

 

Your son will have to do the same for him/spouse and grandkids, using their saved Traveler info.

 

Your worst case if you do these actions is that you screw up turning your phone on and have to pay for a few minutes of roaming data while you think you are using the free WiFi - but you will be in compliance with both sets of gov't regulations, so you'll avoid the risk of fines that would cost an awful lot more!

 

Personally I would not use the website ArriveCAN at home, but the App - so that you can get plenty of practise using the exact same method you will be using here, with plenty of time to get it right. You can enter fake trips and delete them over and over until you feel confident using the app. Email the QR code to yourself, then open that email on your desktop if you want to print it at home - but since you will not easily be able to print off the second ArriveCAN entry, I'd suggest instead trying to do it all on your phone so you always do the same thing every time, no change of procedure for the flight vs the cruise.

 

Practise finding the QR code after you have entered a trip and then turned your phone off again - many folks recommend taking a Screenshot of the QR code, even making it your phone's home screen so it literally appears as soon as the phone is turned on, so that you do not have to reopen the app just to display the code. Since exactly how to do those things depends on your phone and it's operating system, I can't help with specifics there I'm afraid.

I absolutely didn't realize or misunderstood I would have to do a second ArriveCan...So my BAD !!

I did understand about your helpful info on the random testing and that is what I focused on.

I very much appreciate all the time you've taken in your responses. But I'm still having trouble understanding (JMHO) the reason for the Canadian policy of requiring a second ArriveCan.

submission. Again, thanks so much and I'm hoping all goes well.

[d9704011]

5 hours ago, Ashland said:

I absolutely didn't realize or misunderstood I would have to do a second ArriveCan...So my BAD !!

I did understand about your helpful info on the random testing and that is what I focused on.

I very much appreciate all the time you've taken in your responses. But I'm still having trouble understanding (JMHO) the reason for the Canadian policy of requiring a second ArriveCan.

submission. Again, thanks so much and I'm hoping all goes well.

Why do you persist in clouding up the process, and losing your focus, with a bunch of irrelevant moaning about the Canadian government's requirement(s) to complete ArriveCAN twice?  

[martincath]

9 hours ago, Ashland said:

...But I'm still having trouble understanding (JMHO) the reason for the Canadian policy of requiring a second ArriveCan submission. ...

While worrying about the whys & wherefores of any decision made by any government is a recipe for hairloss, this one actually has pretty straightforward reasoning if you approach it from the right angle.

 

The clue is in the name - it's not CruiseCAN, but ArriveCAN. Every time you cross the border inbound, you need to file a submission. For planes, trains, and automobiles the timing makes it more obvious: cruising is 'special' because historically, for the convenience of cruise passengers, immigration processing to Canada has always happened 'behind the scenes' rather than making everyone line up to speak to CBSA after disembarking.

 

What's tripping you up Ashland is the timing - forget about the whole 'two checks on the same day' thing and remember, again, the name of the app! The cruiseline might be checking you have completed ArriveCAN when you embark, but it is not checked by the folks who actually matter - CBSA - until just before you Arrive in Canada toward the end of the cruise! CBSA will get eyes on the QR code just after the ship leaves the last US port.

 

The only difference between the visual prechecks by staff of the transportation company or their agents and the CBSA actual checks when flying compared to cruising is the length of the timeline - when you fly up, you'll be asked to show your QR code at boarding then in a couple of hours be handing your passport over to CBSA at YVR (which is linked to your ArriveCAN behind the scenes, so they see that flash up onscreen too). When cruising there are several days in-between, but the actual events are the same - a port minion visually checks your QR code right before boarding, CBSA see the system data just before you actually get allowed cross the border.

[Lois R]

I just returned from a cruise to Alaska.  I only needed to fill out the ArriveCan once. I went on a land tour to Denali for 4 days pre-cruise. We actually began the cruise in Seward and ended in Vancouver. So I flew to Anchorage to start with and it was during our land trip that everyone filled out the ArriveCan (within the 72 hours of actually boarding the ship).  But again, I did not have to fill it out 2 times. So my flight had nothing to do with it. 

 

 

[njhorseman]

3 minutes ago, Lois R said:

I just returned from a cruise to Alaska.  I only needed to fill out the ArriveCan once. I went on a land tour to Denali for 4 days pre-cruise. We actually began the cruise in Seward and ended in Vancouver. So I flew to Anchorage to start with and it was during our land trip that everyone filled out the ArriveCan (within the 72 hours of actually boarding the ship).  But again, I did not have to fill it out 2 times. So my flight had nothing to do with it. 

 

 

You flew to and cruised from Alaska. You only needed the ArriveCan for your cruise.  The poster is flying to Vancouver and needs one ArriveCan for the flight and then the second ArriveCan for the cruise itself.

[martincath]

23 minutes ago, Lois R said:

...So my flight had nothing to do with it.

Exactly - because your flight did not Arrive in CANada, only your cruise, so you only crossed our border once. The poster I replied to is both flying in and then also taking an RT cruise, as spotted by our NooJoysian cavalryman friend above 😉

[Lois R]

24 minutes ago, martincath said:

Exactly - because your flight did not Arrive in CANada, only your cruise, so you only crossed our border once. The poster I replied to is both flying in and then also taking an RT cruise, as spotted by our NooJoysian cavalryman friend above 😉

Ahhh, ok so if my next cruise is sailing out of Canada and I am flying into the country in order to sail, I will have to fill it out twice? We start in Quebec City and end in NYC.

[Ashland]

6 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Why do you persist in clouding up the process, and losing your focus, with a bunch of irrelevant moaning about the Canadian government's requirement(s) to complete ArriveCAN twice?  

PLEASE just STOP....if you have nothing to add  other can criticism just move on !!!!!!!!!!

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, martincath said:

While worrying about the whys & wherefores of any decision made by any government is a recipe for hairloss, this one actually has pretty straightforward reasoning if you approach it from the right angle.

 

The clue is in the name - it's not CruiseCAN, but ArriveCAN. Every time you cross the border inbound, you need to file a submission. For planes, trains, and automobiles the timing makes it more obvious: cruising is 'special' because historically, for the convenience of cruise passengers, immigration processing to Canada has always happened 'behind the scenes' rather than making everyone line up to speak to CBSA after disembarking.

 

What's tripping you up Ashland is the timing - forget about the whole 'two checks on the same day' thing and remember, again, the name of the app! The cruiseline might be checking you have completed ArriveCAN when you embark, but it is not checked by the folks who actually matter - CBSA - until just before you Arrive in Canada toward the end of the cruise! CBSA will get eyes on the QR code just after the ship leaves the last US port.

 

The only difference between the visual prechecks by staff of the transportation company or their agents and the CBSA actual checks when flying compared to cruising is the length of the timeline - when you fly up, you'll be asked to show your QR code at boarding then in a couple of hours be handing your passport over to CBSA at YVR (which is linked to your ArriveCAN behind the scenes, so they see that flash up onscreen too). When cruising there are several days in-between, but the actual events are the same - a port minion visually checks your QR code right before boarding, CBSA see the system data just before you actually get allowed cross the border.

I'm so sorry but here I go again...Will I be able to just fill out the 2nd ArriveCan onboard my ship before my cruise ends (as we leave our last US port) back into Canada? This would make it a bit easier for us actually. Thanks so much and sorry for taking up so much of your time.

[martincath]

6 minutes ago, Lois R said:

Ahhh, ok so if my next cruise is sailing out of Canada and I am flying into the country in order to sail, I will have to fill it out twice? We start in Quebec City and end in NYC.

Not necessarily - while some cruise lines have been incorrectly demanding ArriveCAN when it is not needed, official gov't regs are that only cruises which either start outside Canada or, if starting inside, return here need it completed. So on a QC-NYC route, unless the ship goes to at least one US port, then back to at least one Canadian port afterward, then finally back into US waters to finish up in NYC there is no Gov't requirement for a cruise entry.

 

Again, the clue is in the name - whatever the mode of transport, does it ARRIVE (not depart!) in CANADA at some point during the trip? Your flight obviously does, but unless the cruise takes a rather unusual route it does not.

[d9704011]

12 minutes ago, Ashland said:

I'm so sorry but here I go again...Will I be able to just fill out the 2nd ArriveCan onboard my ship before my cruise ends (as we leave our last US port) back into Canada? This would make it a bit easier for us actually. Thanks so much and sorry for taking up so much of your time.

No.  You need to complete the ArriveCAN prior to boarding this cruise, which is a round trip from Vancouver to Alaska and back, as I understand your previous posts.  The ArriveCAN instructions for this are very clear.  From the Government of Canada website:

 

These requirements apply to cruises:

• arriving in Canada from a foreign country
• starting in Canada, but travelling outside Canadian waters and then returning to Canada (for example, if docking in the United States for a shore excursion)

All travellers are required to:

• complete ArriveCAN no more than 72 hours of initially boarding the cruise. This includes:
  • any traveller who recently submitted ArriveCAN to enter Canada via land or air
  • Canadians embarking on an international cruise from Canada that will return to Canada

Edited September 5, 2022 by d9704011

[martincath]

1 minute ago, Ashland said:

I'm so sorry but here I go again...Will I be able to just fill out the 2nd ArriveCan onboard my ship before my cruise ends (as we leave our last US port) back into Canada? This would make it a bit easier for us actually. Thanks so much and sorry for taking up so much of your time.

No - Canadian rules are that the line is responsible for ensuring the entries have been done before allowing embarkation.

 

And since we've already established that you need email access to avoid missing notification of random testing, there's really no advantage for you to not simply get your ArriveCAN done during that short wait at YVR for the test notification window.

 

Honestly, the easiest way to do this is to do exactly what I said in the prior note - if you choose, and it IS a choice you are making, not to check your email you are wilfully ignoring a federal Canadian regulation.

 

While I doubt that our government will 'come after you' with threats of arrest, jail time, big fines etc. for not doing the test, you CAN comply and you are CHOOSING not to if you don't - I don't know what % of folks are being randomly selected, but with what sounds like a group of 6 or so there's a decent chance at least one of you will be - and that WILL result in phone calls and emails chasing you up about it.

 

Frankly I would not like to be crossing our border any time in the future with a note on my file saying 'ignored Covid testing regulations, violating federal emergency health & quarantine etc. act' as that's a recipe for at best delays for extra questioning, at worst potential refusal of entry, the rubber-glove treatment, fines etc.

 

Just make life easier for yourself - turn on your phone at the airport, do ArriveCAN while you wait out your 15mins, then get on with your life without ANY further concerns!

[njhorseman]

54 minutes ago, martincath said:

Not necessarily - while some cruise lines have been incorrectly demanding ArriveCAN when it is not needed, official gov't regs are that only cruises which either start outside Canada or, if starting inside, return here need it completed. So on a QC-NYC route, unless the ship goes to at least one US port, then back to at least one Canadian port afterward, then finally back into US waters to finish up in NYC there is no Gov't requirement for a cruise entry.

 

Again, the clue is in the name - whatever the mode of transport, does it ARRIVE (not depart!) in CANADA at some point during the trip? Your flight obviously does, but unless the cruise takes a rather unusual route it does not.

While some cruise lines have likely been misinterpreting the ArriveCan rules for this type of itinerary, do not dismiss the likelihood of the cruise line refusing to allow you to embark if you don't follow their interpretation. 

[martincath]

5 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

While some cruise lines have likely been misinterpreting the ArriveCan rules for this type of itinerary, do not dismiss the likelihood of the cruise line refusing to allow you to embark if you don't follow their interpretation. 

Ab-so-tively - even if they're wrong, it's such a simple thing to comply with (especially for folks who have created their ArriveCAN accounts, uploaded ID, Vaxx status etc. so just need to do the 2 minute Trip entry) that's it's going to be quicker and easier to just make another ArriveCAN entry than to argue your way up the chain of command from pier-minion to someone who actually understands the rules!

[d9704011]

9 minutes ago, martincath said:

Ab-so-tively - even if they're wrong, it's such a simple thing to comply with (especially for folks who have created their ArriveCAN accounts, uploaded ID, Vaxx status etc. so just need to do the 2 minute Trip entry) that's it's going to be quicker and easier to just make another ArriveCAN entry than to argue your way up the chain of command from pier-minion to someone who actually understands the rules!

If the cruise is leaving Canada (no return), you cannot even complete ArriveCAN because you can't - naturally - select a Port of Entry.  I suppose you could enter Halifax, but if you're going to Boston the savvy cruiser may suspect that there really is something in the Arrive part of the application's name.

[martincath]

6 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

If the cruise is leaving Canada (no return), you cannot even complete ArriveCAN because you can't - naturally - select a Port of Entry.  I suppose you could enter Halifax, but if you're going to Boston the savvy cruiser may suspect that there really is something in the Arrive part of the application's name.

I suspect that any consistent error of interpretation by the cruiselines is to do with preclearance (tenuously arguable as  'entering the US') so using the port of embarkation as the port of entry ('I'm walking out of US jurisdiction and boarding a ship which is floating in Canadian waters here in the Port of Vancouver/Quebec City/Montreal') is the suggested workaround, rather than flagrantly lying about a port you are not even going to visit...

 

If obvious lies rather than dubious misinterpretations were happening I'm pretty sure CBSA would have cracked down already, but IIRC there was a thread started just a few days ago that someone actually contacted them to complain about these incorrect one-way ArriveCAN demands and CBSA didn't care so whatever weaseling is being done it must be relatively small potatoes.

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, martincath said:

No - Canadian rules are that the line is responsible for ensuring the entries have been done before allowing embarkation.

 

And since we've already established that you need email access to avoid missing notification of random testing, there's really no advantage for you to not simply get your ArriveCAN done during that short wait at YVR for the test notification window.

 

Honestly, the easiest way to do this is to do exactly what I said in the prior note - if you choose, and it IS a choice you are making, not to check your email you are wilfully ignoring a federal Canadian regulation.

 

While I doubt that our government will 'come after you' with threats of arrest, jail time, big fines etc. for not doing the test, you CAN comply and you are CHOOSING not to if you don't - I don't know what % of folks are being randomly selected, but with what sounds like a group of 6 or so there's a decent chance at least one of you will be - and that WILL result in phone calls and emails chasing you up about it.

 

Frankly I would not like to be crossing our border any time in the future with a note on my file saying 'ignored Covid testing regulations, violating federal emergency health & quarantine etc. act' as that's a recipe for at best delays for extra questioning, at worst potential refusal of entry, the rubber-glove treatment, fines etc.

 

Just make life easier for yourself - turn on your phone at the airport, do ArriveCAN while you wait out your 15mins, then get on with your life without ANY further concerns!

Again Thank You so much...will be doing our best to comply with all that is needed for this trip.

[Ashland]

2 hours ago, Ashland said:

PLEASE just STOP....if you have nothing to add  other can criticism just move on !!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate all the help most of you have given and the patience with all my questions. 

 

d9704011....I hope the next time you need help on this board no one responds with the criticism you've shown me. Peace Out !!!

Edited September 5, 2022 by Ashland

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, Ashland said:

I appreciate all the help most of you have given and the patience with all my questions. 

 

d9704011....I hope the next time you need help on this board no one responds with the criticism you've shown me. Peace Out !!!

You're welcome.

[goldengirl]

No one knows hat will happen in a year covid could be worse or kit may be lifted. If I knew all this crap. I would have picked a cruise that does not go into canada

[oakridger]

@martincath you have the patience of a saint!!! 

 

Thank you for this detailed ArriveCAN explanation and all the great information you have been giving here on Cruise Critic for years!

 

~Nancy

[em-sk]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, goldengirl said:

No one knows hat will happen in a year covid could be worse or kit may be lifted. If I knew all this crap. I would have picked a cruise that does not go into canada

 

The order in council that made these requirements legal will expires at the end of September.  Federal cabinet will need to meet and decide if they extend it or let it expire.  Rumor floating around is most if not all of it will be allowed to expire.  However we are not going to know until that cabinet meeting happens and they make an announcement.  

 

Yes, lots of things can happen between now and a year from now.  They could re-introduce some or completely different rules.  Same applies to the US and virtually every other country.  

 

[Lois R]

Looks like Canada might be lifting requirements to enter the country on the last day of this month.......

See this news article that was published yesterday:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-to-drop-covid-19-vaccine-requirement-for-entering-country-on/

[em-sk]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:14 AM, Lois R said:

Looks like Canada might be lifting requirements to enter the country on the last day of this month.......

See this news article that was published yesterday:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-to-drop-covid-19-vaccine-requirement-for-entering-country-on/

 

In Canada we have Orders in Council (OIC), similar to the Executive Orders in the US, the difference being we have a cabinet instead of a single individual the approves. When the OIC was updated in June its expiry date was pushed out to Sept. 30.  The government has decided not to renew the order.  So it off the books on the 30th.

 

ArriveCAN app is then optional to enter Canada, no proof of vaccination required.  No random testing after the 30th.   

 

The bad news is the rules requiring Arrive CAN to board a cruise ship in Canada did not come from the OIC but a separate set of rules specific to the transportation.  That will likely disappear for next season but we will have to see.   

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by em-sk