What I don’t understand about Celebrity & surge protection

[canderson]

28 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Not necessarily. The USB A on the power side is for older devices. Most of the chargers I showed have USB-A ports, but they're at USB 2 or newer voltage. Many newer electronics come with USB C (15-25W) ports, or come with no adapter and accept 15-25W from USB C adapters. 

 

The "lamp" adapters, and most hard wired USB A ports, are first generation low wattage ports. The newer adapters are "smart" and modulate the power to match the device they're charging. The hardwired ports on the ship, plans, lamps, etc., are generally just straight voltage with no electronic regulation, so they go back to first generation USB to not fry older electronics.

 

I haven't seen a new device with a "B" plug in probably a decade. I have a very old, no longer in use scanner that has a B plug. There are still plenty of devices (getting fewer all the time) that use Micro USB on the device side.

Charge current for most USB devices is controlled by the device, not the charger.  You can plug a 100mA device into a charger capable of delivering 2.4A (or whatever).  Nothing will fry if the voltage is right!

 

That "Micro USB" you mention at the end is called a micro-B.  Hate 'em.  The previous was the mini-B.  It had the trapezoidal shape with the ends bent a bit.  Sturdy, but too fat for skinny devices for many years.

 

The USB-PD3.0 and PPS specs do allow for higher charge current, and is the latest hot thing, but the vast majority of devices in use don't have the ability to use it.  For example, I'm only one Gen behind with my Samsung phone (S20), and it wasn't until the more recent S21/22 and iPhone 12/13 that these new fast chargers were starting to do some good.

 

The big difference with these new chargers is that they're not stuck at 5V, so it doesn't take as much current as it might otherwise.  At a whopping 48V and the 5A limit, you could power a couple of 100W light bulb equivalents!  There's a limit as to how fast you can charge a battery without overheating it, so 240W is way too much for 99% of what we carry around, but bigger stuff with bigger batteries could take full advantage of these beasts.

 

 

[cheeseheads4ever]

Maybe this has been covered and I haven’t read all of these posts but would celebrity let you bring a non surge protector on the ship to use?

Such  as the attached file?

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, cheeseheads4ever said:

Maybe this has been covered and I haven’t read all of these posts but would celebrity let you bring a non surge protector on the ship to use?

Such  as the attached file?

They may, or may not.  I personally have had my doubts about this product, and any of the ones that are "ship approved" (no cruise line has "approved" any power strip).  This one in particular, when it first came out, claimed to be non-surge protected, yet their own advertising photos showed the back, with a "VPR" (voltage protection rating, or measure of how good a surge protector it is) molded into the plastic.  The further problem is that "Cruise Only" does not make these, they buy them from another manufacturer, who makes both surge protected and non-surge protected devices.

 

One problem with this is that most of the outlets on ships are recessed, so you would need an adapter for either the 110v or 220v outlet, and then unless the ship's outlet and the adapter are relatively new, this will "droop" and fall out of the outlet.  Further, the outlets are usually close to the desk/vanity surface, so this may not have enough clearance to  plug in.  Again, not sure why these types are needed.  You could use one 220v outlet with an adapter to power a multi-outlet USB hub (up to 6 or 8 USB ports), and still have two 110v outlets, and likely another 220v outlet for a laptop (220v) and a hair dryer (110v).  Typically, a USB hub that does not have power outlets are allowed, it is the combination ones like above that are the problem.

Edited August 19, 2022 by chengkp75

[cheeseheads4ever]

Great points. Thanks and will remove this from my Amazon order.

[GRBlizz]

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B09JKVTP5Q?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

 

This is what I bought after reading all these threads. No cord, so no violation, and it will charge my Macbook and also our USB A and C devices, which should cover us. I appreciate all the advice on here, as I had something with a cord (no surge protector, allegedly) in my cart, which could have been confiscated.

[canderson]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

They may, or may not.  I personally have had my doubts about this product, and any of the ones that are "ship approved" (no cruise line has "approved" any power strip).  This one in particular, when it first came out, claimed to be non-surge protected, yet their own advertising photos showed the back, with a "VPR" (voltage protection rating, or measure of how good a surge protector it is) molded into the plastic.

 

I have one of these in front of me now, and there is no VPR value either in the mold or on the rating plate.  Mine claims to be a "MODEL NO. THU6016".

 

So, as I have a set of triangle 'security' bits required to disassemble ... what the heck?  Why not?

 

Interesting construction.  There is nothing in it that looks like a MOV (or anything else, for that matter) tied between either of the mains and the ground lug, so at least this version of the device is surge protection free.

 

Something we should nail down --- MOVs don't know anything about "reverse voltage".  They have no polarity.  It's the voltage across them that causes them to conduct or not conduct.  Exceed the varistor voltage spec for the part, and they start to conduct.  The problem occurs when something on the ship fails and creates a voltage on the hull that, against either of the two 60V 'hot' legs, reaches the varistor voltage of a MOV that sits between them.  The MOV doesn't care what's being measured against what with regard to voltage, only that the voltage across it is enough to get it to conduct. 

 

 

Definitely agree on outlets.  They're often hard to get either a device like this to fit into or hold into.

Like most outlets in hotel rooms and cabins, and airports and airliners, the frequent plug in / plug out with every change of guests also means the retention force on the sockets starts to get pretty lousy over time.  Only solution for that is to replace them from time to time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cheeseheads4ever]

HMM?so what are we recommending to use? Issues are they really a non surge unit and will they fit in a recessed room ship outlet?

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, canderson said:

Something we should nail down --- MOVs don't know anything about "reverse voltage".  They have no polarity.  It's the voltage across them that causes them to conduct or not conduct.  Exceed the varistor voltage spec for the part, and they start to conduct.  The problem occurs when something on the ship fails and creates a voltage on the hull that, against either of the two 60V 'hot' legs, reaches the varistor voltage of a MOV that sits between them.  The MOV doesn't care what's being measured against what with regard to voltage, only that the voltage across it is enough to get it to conduct. 

Okay, perhaps "reverse voltage" is not accurate.  But let's say a power strip has MOV's as surge protectors that are rated for 150vac continuous duty (it will see 120v all the time without overheating).  The MOV's "clamping voltage" (where it conducts to remove a surge) is say 800v.  If a 220v or 440v circuit on the ship has a ground failure, that MOV will be exposed to 220v or 440v continuously, even in a limited current situation (only a partial, high resistance, ground), and that higher than rated voltage will cause the MOV to go into thermal runaway, even though the voltage is less than the clamping voltage.  By "reverse" voltage, it means that the voltage on the ground leg is higher than the power legs, and higher than the rated voltage of the MOV.

[chengkp75]

45 minutes ago, cheeseheads4ever said:

HMM?so what are we recommending to use? Issues are they really a non surge unit and will they fit in a recessed room ship outlet?

Frankly, I would not use anything that combines USB ports with power outlets.  A strictly USB hub (up to 6 or 8 ports) will not be confiscated, whether it has a cord or not, since it is not a "power" extension cord (low wattage).  If you need more power outlets, then a hard rubber "multi-outlet" (one male plug and 3 female outlets, no cord) should fit with a outlet adapter if the outlet is recessed.

 

But, frankly, if you plug the USB hub into the 220v outlet, you will still have one or two 110v outlets for power use, without any multi-outlet, and a hair dryer should definitely not be plugged into one of these with anything else.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by chengkp75

[canderson]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

By "reverse" voltage, it means that the voltage on the ground leg is higher than the power legs, and higher than the rated voltage of the MOV.

I'm good with that description.

 

I was happy to discover no MOVs or other suppression devices in the adapter I opened up.

 

The one time I experienced serious ship-caused spikes was back when the M class ships were having diesels retrofitted for hotel power and I happened to be aboard one of those ships (Connie, I believe) when they were installed and being tested.  One of the tests was of course to switch from gas turbine hotel power generation to diesel and back and forth.  Besides issues with basic engine performance on startup (huge clouds of diesel smoke!), transfer switching was pretty ugly.

Edited August 20, 2022 by canderson

[chengkp75]

44 minutes ago, canderson said:

Besides issues with basic engine performance on startup (huge clouds of diesel smoke!), transfer switching was pretty ugly.

Interesting that there were problems, as the generators are set up to parallel themselves, automatically adjusting speed of the prime mover to put the frequency of online and incoming generators the same, and the sine waves in synchronicity.  Only then will the breaker close, and the power is uninterrupted, and then the unwanted generator is taken off line.  This happens every day, sometimes several times a day on every cruise ship.  And, hotel power is not separated from other power, it all comes from a common bus that all the generators, whether gas turbine or diesel, feed in common.  They should have been able to set the new generator up to match the gas turbine, but not close the breaker, to see that the synchronizing worked, before actually closing the breaker.  There may have been problems with load sharing, as the two generators are different sizes, so load sharing is unequal, but proportional, but this is common among strictly diesel ships, as they will often have two different sized diesel generators, so should not have been a problem.

Edited August 20, 2022 by chengkp75

[canderson]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, hotel power is not separated from other power, it all comes from a common bus that all the generators, whether gas turbine or diesel, feed in common.  They should have been able to set the new generator up to match the gas turbine, but not close the breaker, to see that the synchronizing worked, before actually closing the breaker.  There may have been problems with load sharing, as the two generators are different sizes, so load sharing is unequal, but proportional, but this is common among strictly diesel ships, as they will often have two different sized diesel generators, so should not have been a problem.

What I believe was happening, especially based upon the messy diesel exhaust situation, was that although the diesel output was being properly phase synced and appeared ready to take over, it was really struggling with the full hotel load at transfer, requiring an immediate shift back to GT.

 

Took the better part of two days to get it sorted.  Had a couple of hotel outages when the transfer back to GT power didn't happen, or perhaps they were deliberately preventing transfer to GT to see if the diesel could sort itself out with some tweaking.

 

[cheeseheads4ever]

Im still searching for a multiple plug in that fits and will not be confiscated. Would either of these be acceptable? We would use apple product iPad and iPhone 11.

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, cheeseheads4ever said:

Im still searching for a multiple plug in that fits and will not be confiscated. Would either of these be acceptable? We would use apple product iPad and iPhone 11.

Thats all you’re charging? What iPad? Lightning or USB C.  You don’t need the outlets, only the USB C. It’s probably not going to be confiscated, but it’s not a good tool for what you need. If you use the outlets, it will almost certainly pull out of the wall. 
 

Get a USB A/C charging hub with a cord. Forget the add on outlets. There are multiple better choices in this thread. 

[cheeseheads4ever]

Its lightening for the iPad and iphone 11. 2 iPads and 2 iPhone 11.what I’ve read is there is only a couple outlets in the room. That why I thought one of these would work? I’m no electrician. Just looking for the best multiple plug.

[markeb]

There were two of these threads going. Looks like the posts I made were in the other one...

 

Search Amazon for USB C charging hubs. They'll pretty much all have both USB C and USB A ports.

 

Your iPhone 11 is a USB C to Lightning charger. The iPad could be USB A if it uses a Lightning plug. Most newer iPads are USB C to USB C. Either way...

 

For two iPhones and two iPads, with the option to switch off to charge a Fitbit or the like...

 

Something like this:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Charger-KOVOL-Desktop-Charging-Station/dp/B09G31HM68/ref=sxin_15_ac_d_hl?ac_md=2-1-Q2hhcmdpbmcgc3RhdGlvbnM%3D-ac_d_hl_hl_rf&content-id=amzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6%3Aamzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&crid=1TOI154ZV7ZBI&cv_ct_cx=usb+c+charging+hub&keywords=usb+c+charging+hub&pd_rd_i=B09G31HM68&pd_rd_r=5c8f01d6-a7c5-4185-9f8a-37f62b908d83&pd_rd_w=Eq7Ut&pd_rd_wg=tENoX&pf_rd_p=3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&pf_rd_r=G76X4HG0QVX3S5BZ28A7&psc=1&qid=1662427659&sprefix=usb+c+charging+hub%2Caps%2C117&sr=1-2-25fd44b4-555a-4528-b40c-891e95133f20

 

Very compact. If you go to Amazon, there are pictures of it in hand. I have one similar to this that's great.

 

For more devices, adding more USB C ports, look at something like this:

 

 

 

That gives you 3 USB C and 3 USB A.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Charger-Sacrack-Charging-Station-Portable/dp/B09GJXVHVK/ref=sxin_15_ac_d_hl?ac_md=1-0-T3ZlcmFsbCBDaG9pY2U%3D-ac_d_hl_hl_ac&content-id=amzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6%3Aamzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&crid=1TOI154ZV7ZBI&cv_ct_cx=usb+c+charging+hub&keywords=usb+c+charging+hub&pd_rd_i=B09GJXVHVK&pd_rd_r=5afa2ed3-83c3-4dec-8c75-9799eb5fbc95&pd_rd_w=HhnRU&pd_rd_wg=0RmFy&pf_rd_p=3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&pf_rd_r=YWT2KZE2KA5PYGXZRMY0&psc=1&qid=1662427936&sprefix=usb+c+charging+hub%2Caps%2C117&sr=1-1-25fd44b4-555a-4528-b40c-891e95133f20

 

Both have detachable 2-prong electronics cords. They'll sit on the desk and won't pull out of the wall with devices plugged in. For what you're talking about, you don't need additional outlets. If you do need both 110V outlets at the same time, get a European E/F adapter and plug the USB hub into it; they're 110-240V capable. 

 

That's my recommendation. It's essentially what I've travelled all over the world with for year. You'll need cables, but those are easy.

Edited September 6, 2022 by markeb
Typo.

[mfs2k]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:37 PM, markeb said:

There were two of these threads going. Looks like the posts I made were in the other one...

 

Search Amazon for USB C charging hubs. They'll pretty much all have both USB C and USB A ports.

 

Your iPhone 11 is a USB C to Lightning charger. The iPad could be USB A if it uses a Lightning plug. Most newer iPads are USB C to USB C. Either way...

 

For two iPhones and two iPads, with the option to switch off to charge a Fitbit or the like...

 

Something like this:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Charger-KOVOL-Desktop-Charging-Station/dp/B09G31HM68/ref=sxin_15_ac_d_hl?ac_md=2-1-Q2hhcmdpbmcgc3RhdGlvbnM%3D-ac_d_hl_hl_rf&content-id=amzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6%3Aamzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&crid=1TOI154ZV7ZBI&cv_ct_cx=usb+c+charging+hub&keywords=usb+c+charging+hub&pd_rd_i=B09G31HM68&pd_rd_r=5c8f01d6-a7c5-4185-9f8a-37f62b908d83&pd_rd_w=Eq7Ut&pd_rd_wg=tENoX&pf_rd_p=3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&pf_rd_r=G76X4HG0QVX3S5BZ28A7&psc=1&qid=1662427659&sprefix=usb+c+charging+hub%2Caps%2C117&sr=1-2-25fd44b4-555a-4528-b40c-891e95133f20

 

Very compact. If you go to Amazon, there are pictures of it in hand. I have one similar to this that's great.

 

For more devices, adding more USB C ports, look at something like this:

 

 

 

That gives you 3 USB C and 3 USB A.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Charger-Sacrack-Charging-Station-Portable/dp/B09GJXVHVK/ref=sxin_15_ac_d_hl?ac_md=1-0-T3ZlcmFsbCBDaG9pY2U%3D-ac_d_hl_hl_ac&content-id=amzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6%3Aamzn1.sym.3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&crid=1TOI154ZV7ZBI&cv_ct_cx=usb+c+charging+hub&keywords=usb+c+charging+hub&pd_rd_i=B09GJXVHVK&pd_rd_r=5afa2ed3-83c3-4dec-8c75-9799eb5fbc95&pd_rd_w=HhnRU&pd_rd_wg=0RmFy&pf_rd_p=3663916c-38f6-4d73-9801-2e9551111db6&pf_rd_r=YWT2KZE2KA5PYGXZRMY0&psc=1&qid=1662427936&sprefix=usb+c+charging+hub%2Caps%2C117&sr=1-1-25fd44b4-555a-4528-b40c-891e95133f20

 

Both have detachable 2-prong electronics cords. They'll sit on the desk and won't pull out of the wall with devices plugged in. For what you're talking about, you don't need additional outlets. If you do need both 110V outlets at the same time, get a European E/F adapter and plug the USB hub into it; they're 110-240V capable. 

 

That's my recommendation. It's essentially what I've travelled all over the world with for year. You'll need cables, but those are easy.

I’ve been using one similar to this for 3-4 years. It’s awesome. I travel with it always. Cruises or hotels.
 It stays in my suitcase when I’m not traveling. 

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:51 PM, cheeseheads4ever said:

Im still searching for a multiple plug in that fits and will not be confiscated. Would either of these be acceptable? We would use apple product iPad and iPhone 11.

In simple layman's language - the plugs are almost all recessed.  Thus you cannot fully plug any of the multiple plugs into the outlet. They then fall out.  With 3+ outlets in a room why do you need more?  Many of my devices are 110/220 so I plug them in to the European outlets.

[cheeseheads4ever]

Thanks for the info. I will pass on buying any plug and deal with it when I’m on the ship.

thanks again!

[GORDONCHICK]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:08 PM, sanger727 said:

Am I the only one who things that a "surge protector" isn't an obvious item to bring on a vacation? I can honestly say I've never brought any kind of extension cord, power strip, or anything of the like on a vacation. In the days of USB charges, why? You can get 2 USB slots out of one charger and there should be at least 2 outlets per room. How many chargers do you need plugged in at once?

Thanks.  I haven't laughed so hard in a few days!  Just for 3 of us (when our college son travels with us), there are 3 laptops, 2 ipads, 3 iphones, a switch, I forget his other game console, dvd player, and my cameras - just off the top of my head! I forgot the fans and my CGM monitor.  Oh, and my hair dryer.  Hmmm, wonder why we need more than one outlet?  And yes, for EVERY vacation, cruise or not.  I have always packed a power strip.  But now I'm finding that's not acceptable on X so I will find other alternatives.

[Jim_Iain]

On 9/5/2022 at 5:51 PM, cheeseheads4ever said:

Im still searching for a multiple plug in that fits and will not be confiscated. Would either of these be acceptable? We would use apple product iPad and iPhone 11.

 

I've been using ones like that for about 5 years.  Never had a problem with Celebrity Security or performance.   I also buy some 120V versions

 

I've reduced bring them aboard when I shifted to these cables.   Each has 2 Firewire, 1 Mini USB and one Type C  they come in a pack of 2 cables

 

[frito58]

On 8/19/2022 at 2:40 PM, cheeseheads4ever said:

Maybe this has been covered and I haven’t read all of these posts but would celebrity let you bring a non surge protector on the ship to use?

Such  as the attached file?

I have had this one for like 2 years more or less …been on 10 cruises throw it my checked bags , never been asked about it . It plugs in easy charge our phones . My IPad she uses for her curling iron if never been questions by anyone ever. I leave it out all the time so nobody has ever confiscated it . Just sayin no problem. It doesn’t get hot I have touched it . 

Edited September 21, 2022 by frito58

[NutsAboutGolf]

14 hours ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

I've been using ones like that for about 5 years.  Never had a problem with Celebrity Security or performance.   I also buy some 120V versions

 

I've reduced bring them aboard when I shifted to these cables.   Each has 2 Firewire, 1 Mini USB and one Type C  they come in a pack of 2 cables

 

 

These are great but a little dicey with apple products (lightning or watch) as they're generally not MFi certified and some may lie, say they are but they're not.  Some have luck with them working for years, they often stop working for me after a few months.  At a minimum, I would highly recommend bringing a backup apple cable whether one buys this or anything else.  Too many times I've heard passengers say "my charging cable stopped charging my phone!"

[capecodmercury]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:08 PM, sanger727 said:

Am I the only one who things that a "surge protector" isn't an obvious item to bring on a vacation? I can honestly say I've never brought any kind of extension cord, power strip, or anything of the like on a vacation. In the days of USB charges, why? You can get 2 USB slots out of one charger and there should be at least 2 outlets per room. How many chargers do you need plugged in at once?

 

I know power cords and extension cords are often recommended items on here; but most people don't take those on a vacation. So there's no reason to put it front in center in someone's face when they book. The FAQs of prohibited items is a perfectly fine place. I also wouldn't consider bringing a drone or skateboard on a vacation. But clearly someone has so they have to say somewhere not to. 

The only reason I can see for an extension cord is to plug in a CPAP unit since a lot of the ships don't have an outlet by the bed.  In that case, Celebrity will gladly provide it via a Special Needs request.  

 

The need for additional outlets seems to have grown as electronic devices became common.  My wife and I will bring 2 phones, 2 tablets, a Kindle and the aforementioned CPAP. In the past,we have also had a video camera or digital camera. And, the number of people who also travel with one or two laptops seems to be growing.  There are times when outlets are at a premium. 

[canderson]

17 minutes ago, capecodmercury said:

The only reason I can see for an extension cord is to plug in a CPAP unit since a lot of the ships don't have an outlet by the bed. 

Reason #2:

Trying to power a notebook anywhere near the TV in a larger suite.  Good luck trying to plug in behind some of them.