What I don’t understand about Celebrity & surge protection

[cruisestitch]

Here’s something I have never understood.

 

it’s well known that devices with surge protection are fire hazards

 

so why, since Celebrity has TWO separate sections in the FAQ regarding “prohibited items” and “what not to bring” why is there no mention of surge suppressors?

 

and why is the fire danger not spelled out clearly on one’s booking confirmation?

 

 

[jelayne]

Maybe because they prohibit bringing on extension cords.  It seems that the majority are wanting to bring on a extension cord with multiple outlets., most of the new ones come with a surge protector.  Eliminating all extension cords eliminates surge protectors.  

[cruisestitch]

But there are plenty of surge protectors that are not extension cords….

[carolina_yankee]

1 hour ago, cruisestitch said:

it’s well known that devices with surge protection are fire hazards

 

I wouldn't say this is true. I'm not an electrician and I knew nothing about surge protectors until I started reading cruise boards. I have carried extension cords (non-surge protected) on board ships of other lines with never an issue. Now with USB adapters, faster charging, and better batteries, I don't do it because I don't need them.

 

However, I wouldn't say the average person, even the average cruiser, knows that surge protectors are fire hazards or even prohibited.

[canderson]

1 hour ago, jelayne said:

Maybe because they prohibit bringing on extension cords.  It seems that the majority are wanting to bring on a extension cord with multiple outlets., most of the new ones come with a surge protector.  Eliminating all extension cords eliminates surge protectors.  

For those who appreciate the distinction, adding "power strips" might go a long way toward avoiding the confusion.

[D C]

I suspect they don't go into detail because most people are neither interested in, nor keen to understand the difference between delta and wye electrical circuits and outlets.  Although to canderson's point, calling out surge protectors seems simple enough. 

[john2003]

I thought the issue with surge protectors isn't so much fire hazard as that they spill the surge to ground. Of course there isn't such a thing on a ship so the hull is the standin.

[techteach]

The grandson wants to bring his Switch on the cruise, and he says it has a cord that has multiple outlets. ???? I haven’t seen it. All you gamers out there — will it be allowed?

[cruisestitch]

1 hour ago, techteach said:

The grandson wants to bring his Switch on the cruise, and he says it has a cord that has multiple outlets. ???? I haven’t seen it. All you gamers out there — will it be allowed?

Without seeing it I’m not sure anyone can answer for sure.  Can he send you a photo to post here?

[cruisestitch]

1 hour ago, john2003 said:

I thought the issue with surge protectors isn't so much fire hazard as that they spill the surge to ground. Of course there isn't such a thing on a ship so the hull is the standin.

Take a look at the other thread about this — fire hazards they are.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by cruisestitch

[techteach]

6 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Without seeing it I’m not sure anyone can answer for sure.  Can he send you a photo to post here?

I’ll need to have his mom take a picture of it…

[markeb]

43 minutes ago, techteach said:

The grandson wants to bring his Switch on the cruise, and he says it has a cord that has multiple outlets. ???? I haven’t seen it. All you gamers out there — will it be allowed?

 

Not a gamer, but it looks like this:

 

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/assets/media/images/switch/common/hac-photo-console_acadapter_attach.jpg

 

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/assets/media/images/switch/common/hac-photo-console_acadapter_attach.jpg

 

Looks like one power connection and one cord. Unless there's a teenager on the board who knows something else. Pretty sure there were many of them on Equinox a week ago.

Edited August 15, 2022 by markeb

[PKB]

The cord that comes with the system is just like the above photo.  Maybe the cord the grandson is using has multiple plug-in options.  I would suggest bringing the cords that came with the system.  If the grandson wants to play on the TV, that is a whole different can of worms, with access to controls on the TV.  The remote in the cabin does not allow changing the input on the tv.

[wrk2cruise]

I believe if you read the posts in the other thread by the engineer he states that if it only has 2 pins and doesn't have the 3rd ground pin then it can't contain a surge suppressor and would be acceptable.  But read that thread and make sure that's what he says.

[cruisestitch]

20 hours ago, carolina_yankee said:

I wouldn't say this is true. I'm not an electrician and I knew nothing about surge protectors until I started reading cruise boards. I have carried extension cords (non-surge protected) on board ships of other lines with never an issue. Now with USB adapters, faster charging, and better batteries, I don't do it because I don't need them.

 

However, I wouldn't say the average person, even the average cruiser, knows that surge protectors are fire hazards or even prohibited.

My point was that electrical engineers and safety officers on board know that surge protectors are a fire hazard and they should clearly and emphatically make that known to passengers.  
 

The regulation should be front and center, not hidden in an FAQ, not that it’s there, or in the cruise contract, not that it’s there either at this stage.

 

There are special statements in both places regarding drones, by contrast.

[D C]

17 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Not a gamer, but it looks like this:

 

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/assets/media/images/switch/common/hac-photo-console_acadapter_attach.jpg

 

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/assets/media/images/switch/common/hac-photo-console_acadapter_attach.jpg

 

Looks like one power connection and one cord. Unless there's a teenager on the board who knows something else. Pretty sure there were many of them on Equinox a week ago.

That looks like a pretty normal USB-C power adapter plug that powers most non-Apple cell phones and other devices these days.   

[canderson]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

I believe if you read the posts in the other thread by the engineer he states that if it only has 2 pins and doesn't have the 3rd ground pin then it can't contain a surge suppressor and would be acceptable.  But read that thread and make sure that's what he says.

That's not what he said.  Without a 'ground pin', the MOV can only be located across the two 'hot' lines, avoiding potential problems that tying one to hull 'ground' could cause.

[wrk2cruise]

Ok I went back and looked to quote him.  This is what he said.

 

"And, here is the one bit of advice I give, but that tends to get twisted.  "If it has a two prong plug, it can't be surge protected, since a surge protector needs a connection to ground (the third, round pin).  Many here on CC get this mixed up, and say that "if it has a ground pin, it is surge protected", but this is not true. "

[chengkp75]

19 hours ago, john2003 said:

I thought the issue with surge protectors isn't so much fire hazard as that they spill the surge to ground. Of course there isn't such a thing on a ship so the hull is the standin.

First of all, there won't be any surges, simply due to the nature of the ship's electrical system.  Lightning strikes don't affect the ship's electrical system, and voltages are stepped down through multiple transformers.  As you say, the hull is ground, but so is the ocean, so there is in fact, a "ground".  The problem comes because there is no intentional connection to ground like you have with the neutral wire in your house, a high voltage motor could start to fail to ground somewhere on the ship, and this will send high voltage on the ground wire, compared to the two power leads (hot and "neutral"), which is "reverse voltage" for the surge protector, and which can cause the MOV semi-conductors to go into "thermal runaway" (generating high temps even at low amperages), and melt the surge protector down and catch fire.

[canderson]

50 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

Ok I went back and looked to quote him.  This is what he said.

 

"And, here is the one bit of advice I give, but that tends to get twisted.  "If it has a two prong plug, it can't be surge protected, since a surge protector needs a connection to ground (the third, round pin).  Many here on CC get this mixed up, and say that "if it has a ground pin, it is surge protected", but this is not true. "

Further on, he/we talked about differential mode MOVs across the two shipboard "hot" leads in 2 wire power supplies for electronics   One lead normally isn't "hot" shoreside (it is tied to neutral), but is hot, not tied to neutral/ground when shipboard, so poses no risk.

Edited August 16, 2022 by canderson

[canderson]

What chengkp75 explained most clearly is how you get the 120V shipboard.  Each leg is 60V vs hull 'ground', so there's 120V between legs.

 

At home, one leg ("neutral") is 'mostly' (it's complicated) ground, and the "hot" leg is 120V vs the neutral.

 

Turns out that this distinction is critical to understanding the nature of the shipboard problem.

[D C]

This is an interesting read from an electrical forum. A couple of ship electricians chimed in:

https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/ship-power.2549929/

[sanger727]

Am I the only one who things that a "surge protector" isn't an obvious item to bring on a vacation? I can honestly say I've never brought any kind of extension cord, power strip, or anything of the like on a vacation. In the days of USB charges, why? You can get 2 USB slots out of one charger and there should be at least 2 outlets per room. How many chargers do you need plugged in at once?

 

I know power cords and extension cords are often recommended items on here; but most people don't take those on a vacation. So there's no reason to put it front in center in someone's face when they book. The FAQs of prohibited items is a perfectly fine place. I also wouldn't consider bringing a drone or skateboard on a vacation. But clearly someone has so they have to say somewhere not to. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, canderson said:

Further on, he/we talked about differential mode MOVs across the two shipboard "hot" leads in 2 wire power supplies for electronics   One lead normally isn't "hot" shoreside (it is tied to neutral), but is hot, not tied to neutral/ground when shipboard, so poses no risk.

Yes, but the MOV's across the hot leads do not see reverse voltage, and so are not susceptible to thermal runaway.

[canderson]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, but the MOV's across the hot leads do not see reverse voltage, and so are not susceptible to thermal runaway.

Right, because aboard, those MOVs have no connection to 'ground' as they would have if the device was plugged in shoreside.  As I say, your 60-G-60 explanation finally filled in the missing piece for me!