You think it's only Princess?...

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, odyssyus said:

I'm going to build the biggest ships I can, with apps, VR, funky clubs etc..

Or, alternatively,  small, luxury ships, charging top rates, leading to a higher roi !

[Eglesbrech]

22 minutes ago, odyssyus said:

 

New, untapped market is Gen X, Millennials and soon Gen Z.  AsiaPac is also high on my list.  Older Western Europeans/Americans are not high on my list.  I'm going to build the biggest ships I can, with apps, VR, funky clubs etc.. and park them in the Caribbean market.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I'm younger than most on here, but I'm an old soul with cruising and prefer formal nights, traditional shows, and sitting at big tables with people I don't know.  However, when looking at this thru the lens of a sharehold or CEO, I want new, young cruisers with disposable income.

 

source: CLIA

67% of cruises are 4-7 day Caribbean cruises

 

source: CLIA

A genuine question. Do young people in the US generally have a lot of disposable income right now?

 

At the moment here in the U.K. mortgage interest rates are rising every month and wage rises are well below inflation. Add to that the sky high cost of energy and many younger folks with a house loan, car loan, credit card and children are just about making ends meet. They are the market sector that is being targeted.

 

Is the economy better in the US so more disposable income because here the older demographic generally have more money and more time available to cruise.

[c-boy]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

Princess also promotes itself as a "Luxury Cruise Line."

  😄  well ya, if you get anything other than a inside cabin.

[HappyTexan44]

 

I am reminded of the 'brilliant' marketing idea in the 80's & 90's of the malls targeting the teen market.   The idea was that the teens had control of their parent's wallet and they were the future blah-blah-blah.   I was born in '70 and I remember being in a mall in the early-mid 90's and thinking, "I finally have money and they don't want it."   This was before there was much clothing buying on the internet.  
But, this is the Free Market at work, maybe they will find a niche.  

 

[Ken the cruiser]

To be honest IMHO it kind of makes sense with regards to Celebrity targeting the younger "60 and less" crowd as well as focusing more on a "ship within a ship" concept. Afterall, most of their itineraries are only between 7-11 days in length, which is a big plus for those still working. And if you book more than a B2B, the third leg will probably be a repeat of the first leg.

 

We have noticed, especially since we are fully retired now and I just turned 70, that we now much more prefer longer 3-5+ week itineraries, such as those offered by Princess and HAL. It's funny, we used to say those two lines always seemed to cater to the older folks and usually offered more sea days on their longer cruises. Now that we are entering that category, we're starting to understand why. 😂

[SargassoPirate]

14 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

To be honest IMHO it kind of makes sense with regards to Celebrity targeting the younger "60 and less" crowd as well as focusing more on a "ship within a ship" concept. Afterall, most of their itineraries are only between 7-11 days in length, which is a big plus for those still working. And if you book more than a B2B, the third leg will probably be a repeat of the first leg.

 

We have noticed, especially since we are fully retired now and I just turned 70, that we now much more prefer longer 3-5+ week itineraries, such as those offered by Princess and HAL. It's funny, we used to say those two lines always seemed to cater to the older folks and usually offered more sea days on their longer cruises. Now that we are entering that category, we're starting to understand why. 😂

 

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I were on a HAL cruise some twenty years ago when we were in our 50s and joked that we qualified for their "kids" program.  Even then we enjoyed the HAL style of cruising. Now that we are in our 70s, we enjoy it even more and avoid the floating carnivals.

[florence11]

14 hours ago, Sea Hag said:

We only did one cruise with Celebrity, quite a few years back. It wasn't terrible, but I've had no incentive to go there again. 

We have done the Reflection and the Eclipse which we found very good but not so fond of Constellation and Millenium. We have booked Edge (traditional balcony) for New Zealand hopefully it goes ok.

[Ken the cruiser]

19 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I were on a HAL cruise some twenty years ago when we were in our 50s and joked that we qualified for their "kids" program.  Even then we enjoyed the HAL style of cruising. Now that we are in our 70s, we enjoy it even more and avoid the floating carnivals.

For us OTOH we enjoyed HAL up until they introduced the Music Walk entertainment strategy while also reducing the quality level of their evening shows in the main theater. But when we tried Princess a few years ago on a 25-day Easter Island cruise from Ft Lauderdale coupled with their usually hilarious CD and 4-5 assistants, quality evening entertainment and lectures in the main theater, they have become our new long excursion cruise line.

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ken the cruiser

[KKB]

Oh, pooh.

My 76YO mother sailed the Edge with me last summer.

Celebrity is her fav cruise lines tho she has sailed Princess, RCCL & NCL & liked them all.

She had absolutely NO issue with App, "tech" things of the room.

She LOVED the activities--Eden, shows, trivia, game shows, bands all over the ship.

She raved about the new design.

Personally I'm obsessed with E-class--and I'm 56.

 

We did a 5 day Celebrity spring break cruise in 2015 that was 2/3 college students--so this is NOTHING new.

ANY Caribbean cruise of 7 days or less on any line during summers/spring break/holidays run the risk of children, teens & YA.

ALL cruise lines new ships are getting more technologically advanced.

Changing stations in bathrooms? Seriously, THAT is an issue??!!

 

Folks, we are all getting older.

ALL industries are updating ALL THE TIME (or they will go by the wayside...)

Additionally EVERY business is looking to expand their customer base.

Nothing new here.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by KKB

[caribill]

47 minutes ago, KKB said:

Additionally EVERY business is looking to expand their customer base.

Nothing new here.

 

 

There is a difference between expanding your customer base and indicating to your current loyal customer base that you do not think they are important to you anymore.

 

Pre-pandemic, Princess essentially sailed at 100% capacity. This included many long-time customers who often made the choice between Princess and competing cruises lines with essentially the same itineraries with the benefits that Elite passengers had in mind.

 

With the elimination of many of the Elite and loyal customer perks, Princess is indicating that they do not mind if the loyal customers are loyal no more.

[KKB]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

There is a difference between expanding your customer base and indicating to your current loyal customer base that you do not think they are important to you anymore.

 

Pre-pandemic, Princess essentially sailed at 100% capacity. This included many long-time customers who often made the choice between Princess and competing cruises lines with essentially the same itineraries with the benefits that Elite passengers had in mind.

 

With the elimination of many of the Elite and loyal customer perks, Princess is indicating that they do not mind if the loyal customers are loyal no more.

True. Have seen this issue in a number of places.

But looking at other lines, most are downgrading those as well.

[caribill]

6 minutes ago, KKB said:

True. Have seen this issue in a number of places.

But looking at other lines, most are downgrading those as well.

 

If my benefits are not that good anymore on Princess and I have few benefits, if any, on like xyz, then I have no incentive to book either line for a similar itinerary other than price and perceived onboard experience.

 

And my experience with Princess' competition is that the onboard experience is not significantly different overall.

[KKB]

4 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

If my benefits are not that good anymore on Princess and I have few benefits, if any, on like xyz, then I have no incentive to book either line for a similar itinerary other than price and perceived onboard experience.

 

And my experience with Princess' competition is that the onboard experience is not significantly different overall.

We agree--mainstream lines are more alike than different.

I am looking at my fav lines & choosing based on what fits my schedule, best value & itinerary desires.

 

[Eglesbrech]

14 minutes ago, KKB said:

True. Have seen this issue in a number of places.

But looking at other lines, most are downgrading those as well.

Msc gave me a status match to the top grade on their loyalty scheme so it was worth trying them out. We really enjoyed it and now have more booking with them than Princess.

 

I think they are poaching a lot of customers with the offer, good pricing and  all round U.K. departures which Princess don’t offer.

 

I think eventually all the loyalty schemes will wither on the vine or die out.
 

Like you we look at the whole package and the schemes are a secondary consideration.

[Guest ldtr]

19 hours ago, MustangGT said:

I guess I didn’t realize Celebrity changed from an “adult only” line.

Been under a rock? 🥴🤣

When was Celebrity an adults only line?  It certainly has not been in the last 20 years.

 

As with Princess mostly aimed at adults, but children have been allowed and onboard.

[Guest ldtr]

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

That is a very UScentric point of view.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with some of the points you make, but there is a big wide world of cruising out there, that does not include the US.

Yes but the major holding companies RCL, NCLH, and CCL are very much US focused. Especially with most of their brands. CCL is the most world focused with some brands focused on the UK, Australia (P&O) as well as a German brand and and Italian Brand. However even CCL is primarily US focused.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

There is a difference between expanding your customer base and indicating to your current loyal customer base that you do not think they are important to you anymore.

 

Pre-pandemic, Princess essentially sailed at 100% capacity. This included many long-time customers who often made the choice between Princess and competing cruises lines with essentially the same itineraries with the benefits that Elite passengers had in mind.

 

With the elimination of many of the Elite and loyal customer perks, Princess is indicating that they do not mind if the loyal customers are loyal no more.

I consider that the benefits with the most direct economic value are still in place. Coupled with the Veterans and shareholders benefits I consider that Princess starts with a 300 to 700 dollar advantange compared to other options depending upon cruise length. Add on FCDs and it gets even better.

Edited October 9, 2022 by ldtr

[Kay S]

3 hours ago, caribill said:

 

There is a difference between expanding your customer base and indicating to your current loyal customer base that you do not think they are important to you anymore.

 

 

This is the truth.  

 

My adult children (the desired demographic) and their children have cruise Princess many times.  Why?  They cruised with us.  When we are not part of the equation, they choose Carnival.  Maybe it's a stretch to say the youngsters won't cruise Princess without the old folks, but we are far from the only multi-generation groups sailing.  Is Princess saying, "Come on, youngsters, but leave those old people at home"?

[c-boy]

4 minutes ago, Kay S said:

This is the truth.  

 

My adult children (the desired demographic) and their children have cruise Princess many times.  Why?  They cruised with us.  When we are not part of the equation, they choose Carnival.  Maybe it's a stretch to say the youngsters won't cruise Princess without the old folks, but we are far from the only multi-generation groups sailing.  Is Princess saying, "Come on, youngsters, but leave those old people at home"?

not if your paying for everyone you bring along

 

[caribill]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

I consider that the benefits with the most direct economic value are still in place. Coupled with the Veterans and shareholders benefits I consider that Princess starts with a 300 to 700 dollar advantage compared to other options depending upon cruise length.

 

Agree.

 

But those benefits are available to a first time Princess customer and can be a part of the financial equation for anyone.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

For us as we continue to zero in on Elite status, there are three perks that motivate us to get to that level - unlimited free laundry, be able to book a cruise one day earlier than everyone else, and the complimentary one-time mini-bar service. Hopefully, those 3 perks don’t disappear by the time we get there in early 2024. 😁

[MustangGT]

2 hours ago, ldtr said:

When was Celebrity an adults only line?  It certainly has not been in the last 20 years.

 

As with Princess mostly aimed at adults, but children have been allowed and onboard.

I was probably misremembering.  Hate when my senility shows! 🤣

We have not sailed Celebrity but a coworker from years ago did and I thought he only cruised “adult only” lines.

Thanks for setting me straight! 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

Agree.

 

But those benefits are available to a first time Princess customer and can be a part of the financial equation for anyone.

 

not the free laundry worth 50 to 100, not the free mini bar tradeable for 2 coffee cards about 50 value. The 50% of internet for multiple devices worth 70 plus. So not even counting other discounts just the Elite benefit is worth 170+. So I actually undercounted the total with the various obc.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Kay S said:

This is the truth.  

 

My adult children (the desired demographic) and their children have cruise Princess many times.  Why?  They cruised with us.  When we are not part of the equation, they choose Carnival.  Maybe it's a stretch to say the youngsters won't cruise Princess without the old folks, but we are far from the only multi-generation groups sailing.  Is Princess saying, "Come on, youngsters, but leave those old people at home"?

No, Princess is saying, the sameas HAL, Celebrity and other lines that they cannot survive long term with an increasingly aging demographic. The average age of Princess is now the oldest of the mass market lines it competes with, HAL has gotten younger, Princess has gotten older.

[caribill]

7 minutes ago, ldtr said:

not the free laundry worth 50 to 100, not the free mini bar tradeable for 2 coffee cards about 50 value. The 50% of internet for multiple devices worth 70 plus. So not even counting other discounts just the Elite benefit is worth 170+. So I actually undercounted the total with the various obc.

 

Agree, but your original statement was not referencing any of these, just(correctly) the value of the military and stock holder's benefit.

 

 

With Princess expecting 75% of passengers to have either Plus or Premier packages, then the value of the mini-bar approaches zero for them with the only benefit being canned soda as the other items are part of the included beverage package. Ditto for the Internet benefit for one device at a time per person since that is also included.