Dining in The Restaurant at lunch

[calm down dear]

3 hours ago, adolfo2 said:

Patience is one thing but I expect a certain level of "everything" based upon what was paid. Until this level is rendered, we should be receiving a letter of apology (Including an OBC) at embarkation when they know full well, in advance, that it can't be supplied.  

I think this is an excellent point, nowhere in the glossy brochure does it suggest venues will simply be closed like we are experiencing, much virtue is made of the variety of places - all of which close periodically eg Earth and Ocean was shut last night, and another night so was Sushi which is fine these to me are add-one but not to have the main restaurant open for breakfast or at least the odd lunch is short-changing. They could always ask for advance bookings “for planning purposes” like they did for the free Ephesus tour to ascertain demand. I for one would much prefer a calmer place to eat breakfast rather than be surrounded by the constant up/down of people all around me and associated shouts across the tables of “barb bring me more maple syrup” etc

[Catlover54]

33 minutes ago, calm down dear said:

I think this is an excellent point, nowhere in the glossy brochure does it suggest venues will simply be closed like we are experiencing, much virtue is made of the variety of places - all of which close periodically eg Earth and Ocean was shut last night, and another night so was Sushi which is fine these to me are add-one but not to have the main restaurant open for breakfast or at least the odd lunch is short-changing. They could always ask for advance bookings “for planning purposes” like they did for the free Ephesus tour to ascertain demand. I for one would much prefer a calmer place to eat breakfast rather than be surrounded by the constant up/down of people all around me and associated shouts across the tables of “barb bring me more maple syrup” etc

 

LOL, is that the same "Barb" who was face-timing at SB Square on your other thread ? 🙂

 

 

Sadly, the  situation is getting  similar to what flying business or first class has become on almost all airlines  I have been on the last few years, even on long haul flights-- it's a race to the bottom, to avoid airline bankruptcy and/or keep prices from going higher.  That's what most people in the upper middle and lower upper western world financial classes have to settle on these days, a "beats the mainstream experience" attitude. Or, they are instructued to send themselves constant reminders that they are lucky not to be in Ukraine, (like some of my relatives), in a hurricane, or suffering from  cancer (been there), so they should appreciate paying thousands of dollars a day for a mediocre experience.

 

Unless one can routinely afford a private jet, or a private yacht, or maybe is an important person, to get around the increasing irritations of travel (which one used to be able to avoid by simply paying more), one automatically becomes part of that downwards spiral in many aspects of life that involve service (and not just leisure).  

 

We can take it or leave it, but we should maybe stop calling it "luxury", as CC member Saminina has repeatedly suggested (or redefine luxury to just mean more overall public space per passenger, which is still there ).

For now, I'll continue to take it, to a degree, because I not only still adore being at sea, but also love seeing new ports that inspire me to read about local history, natural wonders that astound, and of course just  watching people, with all their beauty, absurdities, contradictions and brilliance that make me smile (or cry). DH will put up with it less often, as he has less tolerance for nonsense and pretentious faux luxury, and for struggling to get a beverage, much less a refill, before his meal is over. He thus usually prefers the options we have at home -- e.g., we are sitting staring out at the waves of the Pacific breaking below our home right now on a 68 F sunny day, with an occasional deer strutting by, as he still recovers from his  Quest cruise Covid.

 

But yet here I am still researching yet more future cruise options,  with or without the MDR open at lunch. 🙂

[adolfo2]

10 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

 

LOL, is that the same "Barb" who was face-timing at SB Square on your other thread ? 🙂

 

 

Sadly, the  situation is getting  similar to what flying business or first class has become on almost all airlines  I have been on the last few years, even on long haul flights-- it's a race to the bottom, to avoid airline bankruptcy and/or keep prices from going higher.  That's what most people in the upper middle and lower upper western world financial classes have to settle on these days, a "beats the mainstream experience" attitude. Or, they are instructued to send themselves constant reminders that they are lucky not to be in Ukraine, (like some of my relatives), in a hurricane, or suffering from  cancer (been there), so they should appreciate paying thousands of dollars a day for a mediocre experience.

 

Unless one can routinely afford a private jet, or a private yacht, or maybe is an important person, to get around the increasing irritations of travel (which one used to be able to avoid by simply paying more), one automatically becomes part of that downwards spiral in many aspects of life that involve service (and not just leisure).  

 

We can take it or leave it, but we should maybe stop calling it "luxury", as CC member Saminina has repeatedly suggested (or redefine luxury to just mean more overall public space per passenger, which is still there ).

For now, I'll continue to take it, to a degree, because I not only still adore being at sea, but also love seeing new ports that inspire me to read about local history, natural wonders that astound, and of course just  watching people, with all their beauty, absurdities, contradictions and brilliance that make me smile (or cry). DH will put up with it less often, as he has less tolerance for nonsense and pretentious faux luxury, and for struggling to get a beverage, much less a refill, before his meal is over. He thus usually prefers the options we have at home -- e.g., we are sitting staring out at the waves of the Pacific breaking below our home right now on a 68 F sunny day, with an occasional deer strutting by, as he still recovers from his  Quest cruise Covid.

 

But yet here I am still researching yet more future cruise options,  with or without the MDR open at lunch. 🙂

Yea, I get it BUT some cutbacks just rub me the wrong way ESPECIALLY since pricing keeps heading North while amenities go South.

 

I have something for those out there who are always of the  "It's what it is", "Accept the staffing cutbacks",  "Cut them some slack", "It's due to COVID", to consider... I hope you're as accepting of the "situation" when your next car is delivered with vinyl instead of the leather interior you paid extra for 😆 😕  cause it's pretty much the same thing!

[Catlover54]

25 minutes ago, adolfo2 said:

Yea, I get it BUT some cutbacks just rub me the wrong way ESPECIALLY since pricing keeps heading North while amenities go South.

 

I have something for those out there who are always of the  "It's what it is", "Accept the staffing cutbacks",  "Cut them some slack", "It's due to COVID", to consider... I hope you're as accepting of the "situation" when your next car is delivered with vinyl instead of the leather interior you paid extra for 😆 😕  cause it's pretty much the same thing!

 

If you've seen my other posts, you know I am absolutely *not*  totally accepting of the situation -- I'm just rebalancing, and 2.5 years into Covid, am tired of using Covid for an excuse for everything (especially since many cutbacks started pre-Covid).  I still have non-SB options that provide most of what I want, but I don't know how long they will last.  

Edited October 22, 2022 by Catlover54
Typo

[calm down dear]

1 hour ago, Catlover54 said:

 

If you've seen my other posts, you know I am absolutely *not*  totally accepting of the situation -- I'm just rebalancing, and 2.5 years into Covid, am tired of using Covid for an excuse for everything (especially since many cutbacks started pre-Covid).  I still have non-SB options that provide most of what I want, but I don't know how long they will last.  

I agree with you, it’s just Seabourn keep pushing this aura in their ads and marketing and it’s really misleading. Now I agree it is better we have what we have than hanker after a past which is not attainable any longer. My fear is that they will adopt more and more add-on pricing eg the ridiculous retreat instead of focusing on providing a good service for all at a reasonable price point. A case in point next week we are told less than 350 onboard - friends of ours were tempted quite last minute but the price for a week was nearly the same as we paid for 2 weeks.

 

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, Catlover54 said:

 

If you've seen my other posts, you know I am absolutely *not*  totally accepting of the situation -- I'm just rebalancing, and 2.5 years into Covid, am tired of using Covid for an excuse for everything (especially since many cutbacks started pre-Covid).  I still have non-SB options that provide most of what I want, but I don't know how long they will last.  

Would you remind us of your other non-SB options?

[PaulaJK]

2 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

 

If you've seen my other posts, you know I am absolutely *not*  totally accepting of the situation -- I'm just rebalancing, and 2.5 years into Covid, am tired of using Covid for an excuse for everything (especially since many cutbacks started pre-Covid).  I still have non-SB options that provide most of what I want, but I don't know how long they will last.  

Seabourn Sojourn closed their MDR for lunch years prior to covid…it was tolerated and thus, became norm. 

[saminina]

Why ask a rhetorical question?   The one that has not been mentioned is the soon to be Explora.  My gut feeling is that it will deliver something close to what has been missing.   Will find out next October.

Kinda wish I had booked the July itinerary that caught my eye.   Ship delivery has been delayed and they are treating booked passengers properly.

[Vineyard View]

4 hours ago, PaulaJK said:

Seabourn Sojourn closed their MDR for lunch years prior to covid…it was tolerated and thus, became norm. 

Even on sea days?

[Mr Luxury]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:14 PM, adolfo2 said:

Then why isn't the MDR open for breakfast at least, on port-days, when there is still a captive audience of guests onboard?

It's rare for docking to occur before 8:00AM so a 6:30~8:00AM sit-down breakfast sounds ideal and would take lots of pressure off of the room service staff as well!

I agree and always prefer a dining room breakfast.

The Colonnade has proven rather popular with the majority of guests so that's the way it has gone.

Use it or lose it could be the moto.

Lunch is a no brainer and makes complete sense. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Mr Luxury

[cruiseej]

20 hours ago, calm down dear said:

My fear is that they will adopt more and more add-on pricing eg the ridiculous retreat instead of focusing on providing a good service for all at a reasonable price point.

 

I think "good service for all at a reasonable price point" may be nearly impossible to achieve going forward, if by "good service" we mean what's been described here as a "luxury" experience. In order to provide the service and food levels of the past, they would need to charge even more than today's already high prices. But is there enough of a market for that? Or they can cut back around the edges, keep price increases from being too extreme, and hope that will keep their ships and coffers full.

 

I'd expect one of the new cruise lines will try a "truly luxury" experience for a price that might be 50% higher than what one pays today on SB or SS, and if they have limited capacity to fill, they might succeed having a differentiated luxury product. But they might also flop if they hit a price point at which they can't consistently fill their ships to 85-90% capacity.

[adolfo2]

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

 

I think "good service for all at a reasonable price point" may be nearly impossible to achieve going forward, if by "good service" we mean what's been described here as a "luxury" experience. In order to provide the service and food levels of the past, they would need to charge even more than today's already high prices. But is there enough of a market for that? Or they can cut back around the edges, keep price increases from being too extreme, and hope that will keep their ships and coffers full.

 

I'd expect one of the new cruise lines will try a "truly luxury" experience for a price that might be 50% higher than what one pays today on SB or SS, and if they have limited capacity to fill, they might succeed having a differentiated luxury product. But they might also flop if they hit a price point at which they can't consistently fill their ships to 85-90% capacity.

I don't know what the answer is BUT surely "Overpromising & Under-delivering" isn't it! 

 

[brittany12]

In the best of times pre-covid the MDR was open for breakfast daily and lunch most of the time. For both meals you could count the number of tables being utilized at maybe two dozen at best at any given moment. Both meals were served in smaller sections of the big room. But we were then paying— and still paying— luxury prices that did not mandate buffet meals for two of the three meals of the day, and that  luxury, more relaxing and better food service was provided for SB guests who preferred it..  Patio dining, no matter how good or bad it is,  does not count in this equation because its burgers and hot dogs plus a few side dishes and maybe fish of the day it is essentially dressed-up snack bar service. 

[Covepointcruiser]

We eat in the Colonnade for Breakfast-and often for Lunch and have never utilized the buffet.   The sit down menu offered is limited but is still fine.    We enjoy the tables outside and those at the windows so have never been around a buffet crowd.    Since we sat in the same areas we had staff who knew our needs so we always had the right drinks.    Timely service was never a problem.

[travel4b]

15 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

We eat in the Colonnade for Breakfast-and often for Lunch and have never utilized the buffet.   The sit down menu offered is limited but is still fine.    We enjoy the tables outside and those at the windows so have never been around a buffet crowd.    Since we sat in the same areas we had staff who knew our needs so we always had the right drinks.    Timely service was never a problem.

I think you have glossed over the fact that if the ship is full and the weather is inclement it feels like a scrum to get any table, much less a preferred one, at the Colonnade.  

[Catlover54]

1 hour ago, travel4b said:

I think you have glossed over the fact that if the ship is full and the weather is inclement it feels like a scrum to get any table, much less a preferred one, at the Colonnade.  

 

The "scrum" problem is only experienced by  *some* passengers.

Pre-Covid, I lost track of how many times DH and I *on a full cruise* precariously carried our buffet plates back to our suites because there was nowhere to sit, much less a staff person to orderly assist pax to get in line for the next open table (it was a free for all, once the privileged had been taken care of, e.g., survival of the fittest and pushiest).

[Vineyard View]

22 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

 

The "scrum" problem is only experienced by  *some* passengers.

Pre-Covid, I lost track of how many times DH and I *on a full cruise* precariously carried our buffet plates back to our suites because there was nowhere to sit, much less a staff person to orderly assist pax to get in line for the next open table (it was a free for all, once the privileged had been taken care of, e.g., survival of the fittest and pushiest).

Well, that is luxury described at its finest

[CabinBoy2020]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:55 PM, Catlover54 said:

 

"Many people" are often  fine with cutting services they do not use, even if others really enjoy those services :).  

Also, with all respect, I find the  implication that pax who prefer the MDR for lunch do not care about welfare of crew, friendly and personable or not, to be not only not on point, but a bit insulting.  

 

Perhaps the money spent on unlimited caviar on demand (which DH and I order once in a while but could do without), or on allowing pax to order cocktails to their suite (which create extra staffing stress, so we just go and pick up our own), or on having cooks prepare "special meals with 24 hours notice" (which create extra kitchen/food service planning and staffing needs and can interfere with other pax getting proper service), or the whole mystical Andrew Weil spiel, could be cut and used to hire a few extra staff to man the MDR at lunch, like we used to have ?  Or how about moving to just once a day suite freshening, like in a 4 star hotel, instead of twice a day? There are many other options to consider to cut costs so the profits of Carnival can be improved (and don't get me wrong, I'm all for profits -- if there aren't  any, long term, there will be no cruise line). . 

 

Or, here's an idea: how about *hiring more people* , and/or spend more time training them, and/or hire good management to ferret out existing wasteful redundancies in staff efforts, to allow the MDR to remain open at lunch, AND maintain the other services too, AND still allow the paid staff to have nice port breaks -- just like SB and other 'luxury' lines used to manage to do. 

 

Of course, given huge recent inflation, e.g., the rising cost of food and labor, this would require charging more for 'luxury' cruises.  I frankly don't know what it would cost, or if there are enough pax in the world willing to pay more per diem, and if so, how much more.  It certainly appears that there are more pax these days willing to participate in redefinitions of what a 'luxury' cruise is.  DH and I didn't even mind the buffet lunch on SB in the Colonnade or at the pool  in the pre-Covid past, at times when the quality and service were better (even if not "luxury"), we were very hungry after a busy active morning excursion,  and we just wanted to get on with getting near instant, reasonably tasty food.  We still had a *choice* to go to the MDR for peace and quiet, however -- that was the luxury, and we had no interest in slave-driving crew. We still don't.  

But we may want to do more land trips, or just stay at our beautiful home, instead of paying thousands a day to eat convention food at a buffet and have to beg for a diet coke refill from overworked crew. 

 

Bravo!  My one recent 29-night Seabourn cruise was disappointing.  A friend convinced me to try Seabourn again and I will be on the Sojourn next month. My expectations are lower, but I'm hoping for the best.  I've not encountered staffing or other issues on the three other cruise lines I've sailed this year.  In any event, I'll be grateful to be at sea with nice crew members and congenial fellow guests.  

[2SailingNomads]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:02 AM, texanaust said:

 

Giving the crew a break is not an excuse for not opening the Restaurant for both breakfast and lunch.  Seabourn did just fine for many years with the Restaurant open for three meals a day.  Then they dropped to two and now just one.  We were on SB for five weeks this summer and the Restaurant was not open for breakfast or lunch a single day.  Contrast this to Silversea who have their Atlantide restaurant open three meals a day seven days a week.  

 

A 6-star cruise experience should have a table service venue with full menus for three meals a day.  Seabourn does not and their hamburger, hot dog and fish of the day doesn't cut it.

 

Closing the Restaurant was financial decision.  The crew are not sleeping below decks or off shopping on their 'break.'  Seabourn just hires less crew, but works them just as hard-if you don't believe me just ask them.  

And why many left for other lines, WindStar and especially Scenic where 80% of the hotel crew on our June cruise were ex-Seabourn

 

[2SailingNomads]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:46 PM, saminina said:

Why ask a rhetorical question?   The one that has not been mentioned is the soon to be Explora.  My gut feeling is that it will deliver something close to what has been missing.   Will find out next October.

Kinda wish I had booked the July itinerary that caught my eye.   Ship delivery has been delayed and they are treating booked passengers properly.

I agree about Explora Journey, seems although wish the pax load was 200 smaller, like it could be a great experience.  We are giving it a try also.

[adolfo2]

19 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Well, that is luxury described at its finest

Touché!

[adolfo2]

21 hours ago, travel4b said:

I think you have glossed over the fact that if the ship is full and the weather is inclement it feels like a scrum to get any table, much less a preferred one, at the Colonnade.  

Such a GREAT point!

[Vineyard View]

This thread has made me curious as to whether another line we sailed several times, and most recently not long before Covid, is experiencing the same concerns post Covid. I reached out and asked if MDR was open for breakfast daily, and if it remains open for lunch on sea days. Answers are yes, Viking has not discontinued these offerings. Seems as if they have honestly not cut back in areas as I am reading on several SB threads. 
We have thoroughly enjoyed our Viking cruises, and have chosen to give SB a first try in 2023 based on itinerary,  and claimed luxury experience. I am thinking we will wait a bit before booking 2024. That said, I am sincerely looking forward to trying SB, and hope that we will look forward to more adventures after our first. But it is sad to hear about all these cuts.  Reputation is everything in business, and once that starts to falter……

[SLSD]

32 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

This thread has made me curious as to whether another line we sailed several times, and most recently not long before Covid, is experiencing the same concerns post Covid. I reached out and asked if MDR was open for breakfast daily, and if it remains open for lunch on sea days. Answers are yes, Viking has not discontinued these offerings. Seems as if they have honestly not cut back in areas as I am reading on several SB threads. 
We have thoroughly enjoyed our Viking cruises, and have chosen to give SB a first try in 2023 based on itinerary,  and claimed luxury experience. I am thinking we will wait a bit before booking 2024. That said, I am sincerely looking forward to trying SB, and hope that we will look forward to more adventures after our first. But it is sad to hear about all these cuts.  Reputation is everything in business, and once that starts to falter……

Vineyard Vine,  I have long been very curious about Viking and have wondered if it would be a good fit for us.  I've investigated the site and read some posts at the board here.  One thing that has bothered me  is that reservations for various things--restaurants, excursions, etc  are based on the level of suite that you book.  In other words, the higher the suite, the more preference you get in terms of sign up date.  On Seabourn, things are much more egalitarian--no one gets preference when it comes to reservations for the TK Grill or excursions.  At least this is the stated policy.  We've never had difficulty getting reservations on a SB cruise at either the TK Grill or an excursion.  Also, we enjoy the entertainment on Seabourn and have never been able to totally understand the level of entertainment on Viking cruises.  From what I have read, Viking appears to be an upscale very casual cruise line without the special touches and surprises of a Seabourn cruise--such as a caviar/champagne brunch on the bow of a ship in Alaska while viewing glaciers, or a sail away deck party in port of Monte Carlo with drinks passed on trays and special appetizers, or very engaging Cruise Directors who sometimes give a concert of their own, etc. etc.  We have not cruised since the pandemic--preferring to wait a bit longer before flying abroad.  

[Vineyard View]

SLSD - it is true that you are able to sign up for specialty restaurants ahead of time based on your stateroom category, as well as excursions. That said, it’s also pretty easy to book these once you are on board if you wish to change, or add additional times. I would say also that once on board, there are no differences in services nor treatment based on category of stateroom  We have experienced very talented cruise directors who participate in entertainment and are very good. We are not big night entertainment show people, so I can’t comment on those differences, but we do enjoy their live offering at different venues prior to dinner. 

Some of the surprises you mention that SB offers is one of the reasons we are trying them for the first time!  Some of the upscale luxury advertised is also why we are booked with SB in 2023. We are really looking forward to those experiences.  So without sailing on them yet, I can’t comment to the differences, but we are truly looking forward to finding out for ourselves. 
 

I will add that we would not hesitate to sail on Viking given the right itinerary, and I hope to say the same about SB after our time on board next year - first cruise since Covid. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Vineyard View