Travel Insurance

[GeezerCouple]

3 hours ago, shiner6 said:

...their requirements for lost or stolen baggage is unfair to some honest folks...  

Also, why should I have to show proof of my homeowner's insurance refusing to pay this claim?  

... I might add that this is the first time in all of my 40 years of purchasing travel insurance that I have needed to file a claim. 

 

You are very fortunate that you have not needed to file a claim on travel insurance for 40 years.

We must be the opposite of you in some A/B universe.

 

We learned about travel insurance here on CC, and thank goodness!  Our first major cruise/land trip/business class air was... cancelled due to a medical emergency less than 2 weeks before our planned departure.  We have since had several other claims, including a few other large ones. ALL have been paid with no nonsense.  We get the policies (from Travel Insured) through Steve et al., at TripInsuranceStore.com .  He has helped us a few times, most notably with that first claim in terms of how to word an apparently confusing time line, and also when I landed in hospital overseas and we needed to really change the next portion of our trip.  After I was out, I was still too ill to travel but we were trying to avoid needing to cancel *all* of the remaining trip.

 

Things are unfair for honest folks?  That certainly isn't restricted to travel insurance.

And it's not the fault of the insurers!  It's the fault of the DIS-honest people who make it necessary for the documentation/proof of various sorts to be provided.  I can't believe that you are not able to imagine "what could go wrong" if insurers just paid all claims without requiring actual proof (of the value and of the loss, etc.). 😱

 

And then there is the difference between depreciated value (which can be surprisingly low; what would *you* pay for someone's well-used suitcase?) or "full replacement value".  (We have the latter on our homeowner's insurance, which has a modest amount for this type of loss from travel, but it's mostly for fire damage or theft/etc.  Yes, we do have some valuable items re-appraised occasionally to document what that *current* full replacement value is.)

 

As for the homeowner's insurance part, there are a couple of reasons.  As already stated, some policies specify they are "secondary"; they'll only pay what is left after a primary claim is filed/paid if one exists.  A primary policy doesn't have this requirement, and thus sometimes costs more (but sometimes the "same policy coverage" isn't available in a choice of primary or secondary; sometimes it is, with an extra payment to change secondary to primary).

However, there is also that "honesty" issue lurking, although the primary/secondary doesn't completely eliminate this.  If one files the same claim with two insurers and "double dips", that's insurance fraud.  (Insurers are clearly on the alert for this in many ways, but that's a separate issue than what you are raising.  However, that risk is still there for the insurers...)

 

Two of the most common reasons I've seen for complaints about travel insurance are:  1) not understanding exactly what is covered, and getting a denial for something that wasn't ever covered in the first place; or 2) not having proper documentation.  The latter includes people who have medically-based claims, but refuse to provide any medical records because they feel that's an invasion of privacy.  The insurers have the right to double check that the claims are indeed valid.

 

Sometimes a denial is due to some misunderstanding... what the insured wrote/meant isn't what the insurer understood.  Someone like Steve can be really helpful with this, as he was with our first draft of our first claim.  Now, we usually send in the claim form without bothering anyone at TIS at all.

 

If you happened to charge something, such as the suitcase, perhaps the charge card vendor still has records if you remember approximately when it was/where you bought it; ditto for other items.  But don't be surprised (or try not to be) if the depreciated value is surprisingly ("stunningly"?) low. 😠

 

GC

[shiner6]

Thank you everyone. I certainly have learned from this experience.

I always purchase trip insurance with the hope that I never need to use it.  That being said, I now will always keep receipts of my travel buys.   Most of the time I use credit card anyways but sometimes I pay cash when it is a splurge for just me and I do not want put it on a card.  I sent in my claim filling it in to the best of my ability.  I will take what I have learned from this and go forward.

[iamtrustworthy]

On 10/30/2022 at 1:46 PM, shiner6 said:

I booked my insurance through the Trip Insurance store (Globiali) for our trip to Alaska. I am now having a world of problems trying to file a claim for a lost carryon bag.  It is so tedious and no assistance.  They want proof that I filed with my homeowners and was denied first. They want receipts for every item. (who keeps all of their receipts?).  They also want proof of the trip and all expenses. There is more-you cannot submit before everything is uploaded and the site keeps sending me error messages and won't allow me to enter any more.   I spent hundreds of dollars for this insurance to provide peace of mind. Now I feel betrayed.  I have been trying for months to locate my lost piece of luggage with AA and nobody ever returns my calls.  I guess I am trying to tell all of you to really investigate your options before paying for a policy.

Hi shiner6,

 

I read through this thread. I don't know who you are with your CC name. Have you called us for help with your claim? If not, call us and we'll help you to find out if there's any way your claim can be paid.

 

Steve Dasseos

[shiner6]

23 hours ago, iamtrustworthy said:

Hi shiner6,

 

I read through this thread. I don't know who you are with your CC name. Have you called us for help with your claim? If not, call us and we'll help you to find out if there's any way your claim can be paid.

 

Steve Dasseos

Hi Steve,

Yes, I emailed Deanna and she was very helpful.  I want to clarify for everyone, that your insurance store has been great! My complaints have to do with the insurance company.  I believe most people would be surprised to learn that in order to file a claim for lost or stolen bags along with all belongings---They require receipts.  Not only the receipts, but you may be surprised by the depreciation value of your belongings. It seems to me that the worst covered part of trip insurance is for the baggage.  This is probably due to scammers in past claims.  

 

For instance, your $100 shirt you purchased in 2021 to wear only on cruises will now be worth $10 in the depreciation insurance world.  My loss concerned a really nice piece of carryon luggage which I treated myself to earlier this year.  No way can I replace that. Lesson learned, I will only purchase cheap luggage going forward.

 

As others have stated, buyer beware when purchasing trip insurance, be sure to read everything and make sure you understand what is covered. If you are like me, I do not take the time to read every word, instead relying on justness and common sense, which doesn't apply to contracts!  MY BAD-----But we all learn and manage to go forward-hopefully a little wiser.

[junglecat]

On 10/27/2022 at 3:19 PM, moposh said:

I just buy the one offered when I purchase the cruise.  Is there a better way to go?

I was told this years ago.  Don't ever buy insurance from the same people with whom you're going to possibly make a claim on.  So we have never bought the insurance through Carnival or any cruise line we've sailed on.  

[Babr]

23 minutes ago, junglecat said:

I was told this years ago.  Don't ever buy insurance from the same people with whom you're going to possibly make a claim on.  So we have never bought the insurance through Carnival or any cruise line we've sailed on.  

 

You are not filing a claim against Carnival. They do not underwrite the policy or process the claims. 

 

They sell you a policy with their name on it, but Nationwide is the insurer. AON processes the claims. Carnival - or any other cruise line - has noting to do with it once you buy the policy.

 

[CruisingAlong4Now]

One of the major takeaways from this discussion regarding lost luggage is the concept of primary or secondary insurance:  With whom do you file a claim for benefits whether it's for lost luggage or a medical claim outside your home area.

 

When purchasing travel insurance, especially medical insurance, you should be aware if the policy is primary or secondary to your US medical insurance.  If it is primary, it will quite often guarantee or pay the deposit required by many foreign hospitals.  If it is secondary, you will probably have to post cash bond yourself or accept an immediate charge on your credit card before getting treated in some ports.  You will then have to submit the claim to your home medical insurer, get the confirmation of claim denial, and then submit to the travel insurance company for adjudication.

 

Because of this upfront payment necessity, many people buy travel medical insurance that is primary since these could be quite large and in excess of some people's credit card limit.

[NJRonbo]

4 minutes ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

One of the major takeaways from this discussion regarding lost luggage is the concept of primary or secondary insurance:  With whom do you file a claim for benefits whether it's for lost luggage or a medical claim outside your home area.

 

When purchasing travel insurance, especially medical insurance, you should be aware if the policy is primary or secondary to your US medical insurance.  If it is primary, it will quite often guarantee or pay the deposit required by many foreign hospitals.  If it is secondary, you will probably have to post cash bond yourself or accept an immediate charge on your credit card before getting treated in some ports.  You will then have to submit the claim to your home medical insurer, get the confirmation of claim denial, and then submit to the travel insurance company for adjudication.

 

Because of this upfront payment necessity, many people buy travel medical insurance that is primary since these could be quite large and in excess of some people's credit card limit.

 

When I shopped for insurance I made certain it was PRIMARY.  You are right, that is very important.

However (and I don't know if this is sound advice), Steve at the Insurance Store suggested filing first with your own medical insurer as most have a yearly deductible which could be met with the claim.

[klfrodo]

18 minutes ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

If it is primary, it will quite often guarantee or pay the deposit required by many foreign hospitals.  

 

Please provide a link or source for this information.

It is my understanding that some insurers “may” provide a means to guarantee payment in some limited cases. However, I have never been told or read from a reliable source that a “Primary policy will quite often guarantee or pay the deposit required”.

[teddie]

On 10/27/2022 at 3:19 PM, moposh said:

I just buy the one offered when I purchase the cruise.  Is there a better way to go?

To me, one of the most immportant things to know about trip insurance is the medical coverage:  will the insurance cover medical evacuation to the nearest stateside port with the appropriate medical facility, or will it cover for medical evacuation to a hospital of your choice?  Obviously, you want the latter option so if there is an accident or injury, you will likely want to be transported back to your home state to the hospital you choose. I worked as an admissions RN for a large rehabilitation hospital in NJ, and I have seen too many real scenarios of injured travelers who live elsewhere getting dropped off, say, at a hospital in Florida. And that's as far as their insurance would cover. 

It will cost extra for the extended medical options, but they are well-worth it!

 

Wishing you good health and safe travels!

 

Teddie

[jclinard]

The major takeaway is to not insure anything on a trip that has a fixed dollar amount.  Don't insure the flight; don't insure the cruise fare, don't insure the luggage.  The maximum you are out of pocket is the cost of those items, but given that it's unlikely you can collect (air / cruise / hotel) or they'll only pay a pittance (lost luggage), it seems unwise to buy coverage for those items.

 

After learning more, I'm increasingly thinking I'll never be able to collect on a medical claim either.  As I travel alone, I would have no way to get pre-authorization for procedures if I'm incapacitated as I'd be unable to make the calls.  

[Suzanne123]

16 hours ago, jclinard said:

The major takeaway is to not insure anything on a trip that has a fixed dollar amount.  Don't insure the flight; don't insure the cruise fare, don't insure the luggage.  The maximum you are out of pocket is the cost of those items, but given that it's unlikely you can collect (air / cruise / hotel) or they'll only pay a pittance (lost luggage), it seems unwise to buy coverage for those items.

 

After learning more, I'm increasingly thinking I'll never be able to collect on a medical claim either.  As I travel alone, I would have no way to get pre-authorization for procedures if I'm incapacitated as I'd be unable to make the calls.  

Medical emergencies and evac are also my main concerns, as I travel alone. I wonder what other solo cruisers do?

[NJRonbo]

I have no affiliation with The Insurance Store, but if you are concerned about insurance as a solo traveler, I would at least make a phone call and talk to Steve and find out what options are available to you if you need to make a claim while incapacitated.

[rtdiva]

On 11/12/2022 at 12:09 PM, jclinard said:

The major takeaway is to not insure anything on a trip that has a fixed dollar amount.  Don't insure the flight; don't insure the cruise fare, don't insure the luggage.  The maximum you are out of pocket is the cost of those items, but given that it's unlikely you can collect (air / cruise / hotel) or they'll only pay a pittance (lost luggage), it seems unwise to buy coverage for those items.

 

After learning more, I'm increasingly thinking I'll never be able to collect on a medical claim either.  As I travel alone, I would have no way to get pre-authorization for procedures if I'm incapacitated as I'd be unable to make the calls.  

Our HMO covers health issues; transportation, care,etc.

The opposite of your thinking : fare refunds are a major expense. Longer trips on pricey ships are many thousands of dollars. You are saying refunds on fares will be a pittance. Egad! We haven’t  bought trip insurance until this year where we find our aging bodies may deceive us. 

[jclinard]

18 hours ago, rtdiva said:

Our HMO covers health issues; transportation, care,etc.

The opposite of your thinking : fare refunds are a major expense. Longer trips on pricey ships are many thousands of dollars. You are saying refunds on fares will be a pittance. Egad! We haven’t  bought trip insurance until this year where we find our aging bodies may deceive us. 

 

I didn't say that at all.  I said that reimbursements for lost luggage would be a pittance.  That was based on posts from people who tried to collect.

 

Reimbursements for air or cruise fares are likely to be in the form of ship credits, not cash.  If you got a refund in ship credits and the insurance company was willing to take the credits and give you a cash refund, I'd love to hear about it.

[Babr]

25 minutes ago, jclinard said:

 

I didn't say that at all.  I said that reimbursements for lost luggage would be a pittance.  That was based on posts from people who tried to collect.

 

Reimbursements for air or cruise fares are likely to be in the form of ship credits, not cash.  If you got a refund in ship credits and the insurance company was willing to take the credits and give you a cash refund, I'd love to hear about it.

Air fare is most often refunded with vouchers. In that case, insurance will not reimburse since the policyholder has already received compensation.

 

On the other hand, cruise fare is reimbursed for covered reasons defined in the policy. Cruise lines do not routinely offer future cruise credits for people who cancel unless it is part of a COVID assistance plan. For the most part, those have expired.

 

Travel insurance covers cancellation for COVID as well as other illnesses along with a long list of additional reasons. It is standard practice for insurance to pay valid claims with supporting documentation.

 

 

 

 

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, jclinard said:

 

I didn't say that at all.  I said that reimbursements for lost luggage would be a pittance.  That was based on posts from people who tried to collect.

 

Reimbursements for air or cruise fares are likely to be in the form of ship credits, not cash.  If you got a refund in ship credits and the insurance company was willing to take the credits and give you a cash refund, I'd love to hear about it.

[emphasis added]

 

You obviously have not had good experience with travel insurance.

But some/many of us have. 

 

We always get third-party insurance, not through the cruise line or any travel organizer.

The coverage would include the full cost of the cruise fare, NOT any "credit".  You are probably thinking of insurance that is purchased through the cruise line to be dealing with "cruise credits".

 

The insurer doesn't "take the credits".  There wouldn't be any "credits" if the travel insurance is a third-party insurer.  The insurer would verify that the loss is for a covered reason (medical documentation, for example), and then look at the receipts for original payment, and then... send a check.

YES, we have had this done too many times, alas.  But we've NEVER had a problem with FULL reimbursement, by check.  Usually within about 2 weeks.

 

An exception would be IF we filed a claim under the "Cancel For Any Reason" (CFAR, meaning NOT a "covered reason"), in which case we'd get a check for 75%.  But all of our various cancellations have been for covered reasons so it's been 100% reimbursement, by check.

Note:  We fly using awards.  So we get insurance coverage for the "change/re-banking fee" to put the points back.

 

And we've also had several claims for problems while traveling, and again, we've been paid 100% of the claim after documenting that it was a covered reason (ours were medical) and then providing receipts.

 

We've never received any "cruise credit".

 

In every case, we WISH we had been able to complete the travel without event, rather than file the insurance.  But we did use the cash (by check) refunds for other trips.

 

GC

[jclinard]

3 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

[emphasis added]

 

You obviously have not had good experience with travel insurance.

But some/many of us have. 

 

We always get third-party insurance, not through the cruise line or any travel organizer.

The coverage would include the full cost of the cruise fare, NOT any "credit".  You are probably thinking of insurance that is purchased through the cruise line to be dealing with "cruise credits".

 

The insurer doesn't "take the credits".  There wouldn't be any "credits" if the travel insurance is a third-party insurer.  The insurer would verify that the loss is for a covered reason (medical documentation, for example), and then look at the receipts for original payment, and then... send a check.

YES, we have had this done too many times, alas.  But we've NEVER had a problem with FULL reimbursement, by check.  Usually within about 2 weeks.

 

An exception would be IF we filed a claim under the "Cancel For Any Reason" (CFAR, meaning NOT a "covered reason"), in which case we'd get a check for 75%.  But all of our various cancellations have been for covered reasons so it's been 100% reimbursement, by check.

Note:  We fly using awards.  So we get insurance coverage for the "change/re-banking fee" to put the points back.

 

And we've also had several claims for problems while traveling, and again, we've been paid 100% of the claim after documenting that it was a covered reason (ours were medical) and then providing receipts.

 

We've never received any "cruise credit".

 

In every case, we WISH we had been able to complete the travel without event, rather than file the insurance.  But we did use the cash (by check) refunds for other trips.

 

GC

 

 

My experience is bad, and afterwards I read the policies very carefully and decided there was no way to collect, especially with airline tickets.  Unless I die.  Death is a surefire way to have a case to collect, but I wouldn't need the money, and my heirs would not know to file.

 

Given that the insurance advocates urge you to read the policies and understand the conditions under which you can collect, I'm uncertain why people are shocked that I actually read the conditions for collecting and came to the conclusion there is no way to do so (again, death is the big exception).  When I've asked if I'm incapacitated and unable  to call the insurance people before medical treatment in order for them to pay (many people have noted they didn't follow that and were denied claims), I get silence on what I'm supposed to do.  Do I need to create a medical alert bracelet for each trip, telling first responders to not treat me until they contact my insurance?  

 

 

[iamtrustworthy]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:47 PM, CruisingAlong4Now said:

One of the major takeaways from this discussion regarding lost luggage is the concept of primary or secondary insurance:  With whom do you file a claim for benefits whether it's for lost luggage or a medical claim outside your home area.

 

When purchasing travel insurance, especially medical insurance, you should be aware if the policy is primary or secondary to your US medical insurance.  If it is primary, it will quite often guarantee or pay the deposit required by many foreign hospitals.  If it is secondary, you will probably have to post cash bond yourself or accept an immediate charge on your credit card before getting treated in some ports.  You will then have to submit the claim to your home medical insurer, get the confirmation of claim denial, and then submit to the travel insurance company for adjudication.

 

Because of this upfront payment necessity, many people buy travel medical insurance that is primary since these could be quite large and in excess of some people's credit card limit.

Hi CruisingAlong4Now,

 

> If it is primary, it will quite often guarantee or pay the deposit required by many foreign hospitals.  If it is secondary, you will probably have to post cash bond yourself or accept an immediate charge on your credit card before getting treated in some ports.

 

This isn't true. Primary (First Payer) isn’t better than Secondary (Excess). The only difference is the order in which the medical claims are paid. I know Primary and Secondary plans that will advance payment to a medical facility if needed to secure Your admission. And, I don't know any plans whose policy wording states that they will guarantee payments or deposits required medical facility.

 

Trip cancellation travel insurance plans are “indemnification” plans (you will be reimbursed – indemnified) after your trip by the insurance company. Trip cancellation travel insurance is not a “pay on behalf of” plan. You don’t just give the medical facility a card. In some cases, a few companies can advance payment to the medical facility, but it’s on a case-by-case basis.

 

I cover this in more detail here:
https://tripinsurancestore.com/how-primary-and-secondary-travel-insurance-medical-coverage-works/

 

And, the Cruise Critic editors have let me do six multi-month long Q & As in the last 5 years.

 

Here's the Cruise Critic Q & A earlier this year:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/2558-qa-cruise-insurance-with-steve-dasseos-of-the-tripinsurancestorecom-jan-22/

 

Here's the archived link to the Q & A I did in Dec 2020 and Jan 2021 that was re-opened in June 2021:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/2500-qa-cruise-insurance-with-steve-dasseos-of-the-tripinsurancestorecom-read-only/

 

I also did a Q & A on Cruise Critic for June 2020:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/2484-qa-cruise-insurance-w-steve-dasseos-of-the-tripinsurancestorecom-june-2020-read-only/

 

I hope this helps you.

 

Steve Dasseos

[iamtrustworthy]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:47 PM, jclinard said:

 

 

My experience is bad, and afterwards I read the policies very carefully and decided there was no way to collect, especially with airline tickets.  Unless I die.  Death is a surefire way to have a case to collect, but I wouldn't need the money, and my heirs would not know to file.

 

Given that the insurance advocates urge you to read the policies and understand the conditions under which you can collect, I'm uncertain why people are shocked that I actually read the conditions for collecting and came to the conclusion there is no way to do so (again, death is the big exception).  When I've asked if I'm incapacitated and unable  to call the insurance people before medical treatment in order for them to pay (many people have noted they didn't follow that and were denied claims), I get silence on what I'm supposed to do.  Do I need to create a medical alert bracelet for each trip, telling first responders to not treat me until they contact my insurance?  

 

 

Hi jclinard,

 

> When I've asked if I'm incapacitated and unable to call the insurance people before medical treatment in order for them to pay (many people have noted they didn't follow that and were denied claims), I get silence on what I'm supposed to do.

 

I'm sorry you weren't ever given an answer on this question.

 

Not all travel insurance plans work the same way. Many of the travel medical only plans have "pre-certification requirements" while trip cancellation travel insurance plans don't have these same requirements. 

 

While I cannot speak for all travel insurance plans, all the trip cancellation travel insurance plans I know well will cover needed medical treatment whether or not you contacted the insurance company prior to treatment or not.

 

Steve Dasseos

Edited November 19, 2022 by iamtrustworthy
typo

[jclinard]

Why would I need medical coverage on a trip cancelation?  If I have to cancel a trip due to medical reasons, I'd get treatment on my health insurance and only be limited to losses from prepaid expenses (including airfare and cruise costs).  

 

I only would require medical insurance if I get ill or injured in a foreign country.  In which case, I any pre-certification is unlikely to happen as I travel alone.  

[Babr]

4 hours ago, jclinard said:

Why would I need medical coverage on a trip cancelation?  If I have to cancel a trip due to medical reasons, I'd get treatment on my health insurance and only be limited to losses from prepaid expenses (including airfare and cruise costs).  

 

I only would require medical insurance if I get ill or injured in a foreign country.  In which case, I any pre-certification is unlikely to happen as I travel alone.  

You misunderstood what Steve was saying. He was distinguishing between two different types of policies.
 

The kind that provides medical coverage only with few or no travel benefits may require pre-certification.

 

The other kind is more comprehensive. It provides cancellation, trip delay, and trip interruption as well as medical and evacuation while you are traveling. That is likely the kind of policy you’ve been looking at. The comprehensive travel plans that Steve works with will provide care without pre-certification.

[Beachfrog]

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