Open Booking Deposit Program

[BWIVince]

57 minutes ago, ctjon said:

I find it interesting - for what we pay for cruises  - even not in penthouse cabins - compared to that what is 500 to get the benefits you will.  If it all falls apart sure it could be another 500 lost but the benefits are worth the risk to many of us

 

$500 is a LOT to some of us.  🙂 I clearly need to make more friends in this group!  😄 

 

I actually don't understand this logic, and it's come up again and again.

 

People are treating the $500 like it's the risky proposition, and the full booking like it's safer somehow.  It's QUITE the opposite.

 

The $500 deposit is not only fully refundable, but as the program is outlined right now there's no case in which it wouldn't be covered by a chargeback.  (I still recommend verifying that with your bank, but under network rules that would be the case.). So there is no practical way to lose money here.

 

A full booking, OTOH, whether you make from your $500 deposit or wait to book later, may be subject to any cancellation penalties or processing fees, and times out for dispute eligibility after 540 (or similar, depending on network) days from when each amount is applied.

 

I'm not rushing out to book anything, on any line, because I don't know what I want to do next, but if I was, I'd feel a LOT more confident about the $500 part than I would about placing a full booking on _ANY_ cruise line.  In fairness to A&K, I probably trust them with my money a lot more than some of the larger conglomerates too, while we're on that subject.

 

Just food for thought...

 

Vince

Edited January 20, 2023 by BWIVince

[saminina]

Listening to former crew and knowing some that are currently on board, I do not disagree about a good core group returning.   Family would be the word, the glue needed to fulfill the dreams of some on here.

 

 

[Keith1010]

We are getting closer.

 

By the way lots of crew will be back.  That is fact.  
 

Can’t wait.  Bags are packed.  Ready to go.

 

Keith

 

 

[Stickman1990]

1 minute ago, Keith1010 said:

By the way lots of crew will be back.  That is fact.  

Last week it was “most” and “many” - now it’s “some” - that is a fact too

 

Lots of generic terms bandied about - but some is open enough it’s likely to be correct 

 

Of course some crew will return - will they be seniors in key positions? - sure some will be. It’s those roles that will apply the standards which will ultimately be set by Crystal HQ

 

Do I wish that many of our friends in the crew return - sure I do and some will

 

Do I know? Does anyone outside Crystal know just who and how many will return? - I very much doubt it 

 

Personally there are many roles that used to be on Crystal that I don’t believe should, or need to return - but that’s a whole new debate. But they will need to make changes if they’re going to be competitive and contemporary with their peers in the industry 

 

Time will tell

 

I’m hoping new Crystal includes free laundry and pressing as those clothes some of you have packed are going to be very crumpled by the time you get to sail and unpack

[Keith1010]

6 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

Last week it was “most” and “many” - now it’s “some” - that is a fact too

 

Lots of generic terms bandied about - but some is open enough it’s likely to be correct 

 

Of course some crew will return - will they be seniors in key positions? - sure some will be. It’s those roles that will apply the standards which will ultimately be set by Crystal HQ

 

Do I wish that many of our friends in the crew return - sure I do and some will

 

Do I know? Does anyone outside Crystal know just who and how many will return? - I very much doubt it 

 

Personally there are many roles that used to be on Crystal that I don’t believe should, or need to return - but that’s a whole new debate. But they will need to make changes if they’re going to be competitive and contemporary with their peers in the industry 

 

Time will tell

 

I’m hoping new Crystal includes free laundry and pressing as those clothes some of you have packed are going to be very crumpled by the time you get to sail and unpack

MOST

 

Oh and I don't need laundry.

 

Pressing is fine.

 

 

 

 

[BWIVince]

2 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

Last week it was “most” and “many” - now it’s “some” - that is a fact too

 

Lots of generic terms bandied about - but some is open enough it’s likely to be correct 

 

Of course some crew will return - will they be seniors in key positions? - sure some will be. It’s those roles that will apply the standards which will ultimately be set by Crystal HQ

 

Do I wish that many of our friends in the crew return - sure I do and some will

 

Do I know? Does anyone outside Crystal know just who and how many will return? - I very much doubt it 

 

Personally there are many roles that used to be on Crystal that I don’t believe should, or need to return - but that’s a whole new debate. But they will need to make changes if they’re going to be competitive and contemporary with their peers in the industry 

 

Time will tell

 

I’m hoping new Crystal includes free laundry and pressing as those clothes some of you have packed are going to be very crumpled by the time you get to sail and unpack

 

I personally agree with you about role changes in order to be contemporary and competitive, at least in concept, but I'm not sure I can identify any of any importance when I try to get down to specifics.  For the fun of discussion, if you don't mind elaborating, which roles don't you think should return?  (...And maybe which ones do you think should be added, or replace them?).  You're totally welcome to decline if you don't feel comfortable with any specifics, I just thought it might be an interesting topic.

 

Vince

[BWIVince]

I just wanted to add my two cents about generalizations on returning staff, since I have firsthand experience with this personally, professionally, and through all of my current and former contacts, coworkers and friends in the travel industry.

 

I feel comfortable betting on "most", but it's the timeline that becomes the qualifier. Especially in the hotel industry, but also with intermediaries and cruise lines that traditionally have low turnover and long tenure, I'm seeing a surprising number of the employees returning to their pre-pandemic employers, regardless of where they may have been working in the interim.  It wasn't a light switch flip though, which is part of what has surprised me.  The backstory is that a lot of the people fall into (but not limited to) four big buckets:

 

a) People who are interested in returning immediately and are timed with existing contracts or obligations to be able to start ASAP.

 

b) People who are interested in returning immediately but need to wait 6-12 months in order to be able to start for either personal or professional obligations.

 

c) People who are skeptical to returning but who are open to the idea once they see if the work environment or offers really play out the way they're supposed to.  (These are the "maybe" or "give it a couple of years" people.). This includes people waiting to see which colleagues or leaders return before committing.

 

d) People who were completely disinterested in returning, until they saw how things came together or who all else came back.  Where (c) is more like FOMO because FOMO is keeping the door open, (d) are people that closed the door and then realize they're already missing out when they see everything in motion after a year or two, and THEN start their journey.  We've seen this steadily build month-over-month in the past year (roughly), so I'd expect in Crystal's case, that these former employees and crew would return in 2024-2026.

 

So long story short, I wouldn't take the number of returning employees on day 1 as a final number.  Based on what we're seeing across the travel industry, this is going to be a process playing out at Crystal over several years.

 

Vince

[Stickman1990]

1 hour ago, BWIVince said:

I'm seeing a surprising number of the employees returning to their pre-pandemic employers, regardless of where they may have been working in the interim.  It wasn't a light switch flip though, which is part of what has surprised me.  

The major difference here is that no one is returning to their previous employer - that company and product no longer exists - it vaporised back in early 2022

 

Just what the new company is and how it functions and remunerates employees in the new company is a completely new deal 

 

I’ll respond on my thoughts about roles (not individual positions) might or might not exist in the new Crystal in a seperate thread - but not right now 

 

There were at least 1200 crew on the 2 Crystal ships plus another 200 or so on Endeavor - so 1400 crew - and supposedly “most” are returning or joining the new Crystal

 

So how does anyone except Crystal know that right now? It seems like a long bow to draw to make that claim at this point. Of course some will join the new company - but how many is “some” and how many is “most” - even in percentage terms - and most important just what culture and offering is the new Crystal looking to have on the new product? Who knows?

[Keith1010]

Why don't you wait and see.

 

Many ,most, whatever, later.

 

What I do know is many of the crew who I have checked with want to come back.

 

Nothing in life is a guarantee.

 

Even old Crystal didn't have everyone come back and some years less returned than other years.

 

However, there was always a large core group.

 

My sense is when Crystal returns there will be a lot of former crew on board and to me that is good news.

 

There is no question that all the position both in terms of quantity and roles can't remain the same.  

 

Less rooms means less crew.

 

And certainly roles may change.

 

They alway have though and with a say 18 or more months since the last sailing and new ownership certainly we might see more role changes.

Some have sailed longer than myself but when I look at our first Crystal guess list from 2002 there are several positions that haven't existed in many years (videographer, assistant F&B, an assistant cruise director on all sailings, etc., etc.,

 

At the same time some positions evolved in responsibilities such as those who worked the Lido Deck.

 

And there were new positions created but to do the changes they had to pretty much utilize the same number of crew to make it all work.

 

I look forward to a blend of the old Crystal with the new Crystal. Then again, Crystal always evolved and was very much different than our first sailing. However, key areas were not and that was the quality and attentiveness of the crew and their approach to the guests.

 

To me the biggest unknown is what the value of the stock market is by mid-year.

 

Bags packed.

 

Keith

[BWIVince]

10 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

The major difference here is that no one is returning to their previous employer - that company and product no longer exists - it vaporised back in early 2022

 

Just what the new company is and how it functions and remunerates employees in the new company is a completely new deal 

 

I’ll respond on my thoughts about roles (not individual positions) might or might not exist in the new Crystal in a seperate thread - but not right now 

 

There were at least 1200 crew on the 2 Crystal ships plus another 200 or so on Endeavor - so 1400 crew - and supposedly “most” are returning or joining the new Crystal

 

So how does anyone except Crystal know that right now? It seems like a long bow to draw to make that claim at this point. Of course some will join the new company - but how many is “some” and how many is “most” - even in percentage terms - and most important just what culture and offering is the new Crystal looking to have on the new product? Who knows?

No, that’s actually EXACTLY the scenario I was referring to and the point I was trying to make.  While the fine details vary, in all of these cases these employees were terminated when their properties or companies closed or suspended operations, and in all of these cases a different management team (at the minimum), or in most cases new ownership,  are now in place or in the process of forming.  That’s the whole point of the varying reactions.  
 

Using my old company as one specific example, the company has new leadership and the owner no longer has a management stake in the company, but the ownership remained the same.  About 85% of the pre-pandemic employees have returned,  up some of us are hesitant because the wages and benefits are subpar and the management would be a question mark for some of us.   But the vast majority have already returned for other intangible reasons, including getting to work with their friends again, and a great work environment despite the pay.  Some jumped at that chance immediately and others waited to see how the new leadership would pan out, but the point is the number of people returning per quarter has picked up after everyone was either able to reach a point where they were able to make a change or got a chance to see how it was working for others.  I get the same story regularly from my contacts at other companies, suppliers and competitors.

 

No one has any way to measure interest and intent, but analogous comparisons have served me really well my whole life, and I’m living in a whole ecosystems of nearly identical examples right now that I’ve spend some time analyzing.  I just note what I’ve been watching has taken years, not what these companies started with…. So give it time.

 

Vince

Edited January 24, 2023 by BWIVince

[Keith1010]

For quite awhile I have heard from many of the crew who say they are returning.  Oh the word "many" I need to be careful with my wording.  But the reality is I have.  Most I hear from are returning. Of course some are not.  By the time Crystal sails again it will be 19 months since then.  If it had been sailing x number would not be returning.  In fact, when Crystal restarted July of 2021 some had decided not to return and a couple of them who we saw in July decided not to return for their next contract.

 

With that said, It is pretty incredible to me the number of crew who have indicated they want to come back. That says a lot for their belief in the new company, and the things that are key to them including those who they work with and the guests they know.

 

By the way a number of crew members are now on board or returning very shortly.

 

Anther good sign.

 

No matter precisely how many return IMHO having a large core of former crew on-board will have lots of benefits including knowing the Crystal culture and helping guide new crew who have not previously worked for Crystal.

 

Anyway, there is a saying time will tell. It will.

 

Keith

 

 

[RTP2914]

As you can tell I post very infrequently, but I do follow all of those that do with great interest, respect, and regard for the effort and willingness to share fact, opinions, and WAGs.  When I think I can add something of value beyond all of the opinions and expertise then well, I take a chance to contribute.

 

In relation to this thread, I am one that eagerly anticipates the “New” Crystal offerings and am hopeful that the on-board experience comes (at least) close to or exceeds our previous cruises with them.  And as most have described the onboard experience, and lasting impression of Crystal, was mostly due to the crew.

 

In regard to the amount of the “original” crew returning and the motivation to do so I’d like to add the following from my experience as a Supervisor, Manager, and a leader in Organizational Change for large organizations and small teams.

 

When employees were asked, via survey and annual performance reviews, what they valued the most in regard to a) annual and ongoing rewards b) retention and c) satisfaction with work, meaning wanting to continue to work for their present employer, in all cases intrinsic rewards such as recognition, cooperation, control, and challenges outscored other choices such more income.  I have an opinion that the "Old" Crystal took these facts to heart.

 

I’m hoping the “New” Crystal motivates (our) most valued crew into returning and that when we board the Serenity and Symphony, we are greeted with familiar and new smiling faces once again.

 

Having said all of this I completely understand those that have chosen not to wait and wish, have moved on, and are being met with smiling faces and a great experience.  There's no right or wrong, winners, or loser here is there? It's all good.

Sail On!

-Rob-

[PaulMCO]

The experience of old Crystal does come from the crew, but that crew is inspired by management and their leaders from the top down. 

 

I have seen some Crystal crew on one cruise line (Seabourn) going through the motions as far as service. They all expressed the desire to return immediately and likely will as Seabourn has only 3 month contracts.

 

I have see others providing Crystal quality, friendliness and impeccable service (Regent). IMO they will not return as they have likely found a new home.

 

I regularly wear my Crystal shirts with that big seahorse logo on board and past guests and employees will come up and talk.

 

Again the spirit to exceed comes form the top management, and as such we are forgetting about the "elephant in the room" and the unknown factor of the new owner (Mr. Manfredi).   I do hope his intention is not a play toy to mold new Crystal into his new Silversea cruise-line with a seahorse logo.

 

My bags are packed -- but heading to Vienna - Austria for my retirement party.

Edited January 24, 2023 by PaulMCO

[bitob]

26 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

The experience of old Crystal does come from the crew, but that crew is inspired by management and their leaders from the top down. 

 

I have seen some Crystal crew on one cruise line (Seabourn) going through the motions as far as service. They all expressed the desire to return immediately and likely will as Seabourn has only 3 month contracts.

 

I have see others providing Crystal quality, friendliness and impeccable service (Regent). IMO they will not return as they have likely found a new home.

 

I regularly wear my Crystal shirts with that big seahorse logo on board and past guests and employees will come up and talk.

 

Again the spirit to exceed comes form the top management, and as such we are forgetting about the "elephant in the room" and the unknown factor of the new owner (Mr. Manfredi).   I do hope his intention is not a play toy to mold new Crystal into his new Silversea cruise-line with a seahorse logo.

 

My bags are packed -- but heading to Vienna - Austria for my retirement party.

At long last.  Have a ball. See you on seabourn in April 

[Keith1010]

3 hours ago, PaulMCO said:

The experience of old Crystal does come from the crew, but that crew is inspired by management and their leaders from the top down. 

 

I have seen some Crystal crew on one cruise line (Seabourn) going through the motions as far as service. They all expressed the desire to return immediately and likely will as Seabourn has only 3 month contracts.

 

I have see others providing Crystal quality, friendliness and impeccable service (Regent). IMO they will not return as they have likely found a new home.

 

I regularly wear my Crystal shirts with that big seahorse logo on board and past guests and employees will come up and talk.

 

Again the spirit to exceed comes form the top management, and as such we are forgetting about the "elephant in the room" and the unknown factor of the new owner (Mr. Manfredi).   I do hope his intention is not a play toy to mold new Crystal into his new Silversea cruise-line with a seahorse logo.

 

My bags are packed -- but heading to Vienna - Austria for my retirement party.

I hear you.  What I will say is on land they have a mix of former Crystal people and some from other places including Silversea.  I think on the ships you will certainly see many from Crystal at all levels senior and a slew of other officers and crew from Crystal plus others from outside. The former Crystal crew and their importance is recognized.

 

Will everything be like it was?  No and I am glad.  Hopefully it will be a mix of what was great about Crystal and enhancements to other areas.

 

Time will tell.

 

Bags are packed and I'm ready to go.

 

Enjoy your cruise and safe travels.

Keith

[bradders]

Gosh, what an interesting and emotionally charged forum. We are Uk based huge ex Crystal fans, we eventually got money back from credit cards for non delivered Crystal Cruises.
 

The way we see it, is a name and logo has been purchased by an unproven operator in the cruise sector. We desperately hope the new Crystal meets the mark. So far we have yet to see anything to win our loyalty and comfort, that is fine we will wait with an open mind. In the interim we are enjoying exploring competitor lines, Regent, Oceania and booked on the new Explora journeys. 
 

Really hope the new Crystal is magnificent but they will need to win that accolade before I hand over any money based on a rather unimpressive pre deposit offer alongside no itineraries and a very empty website.

 

 

 

 

[Roland4]

29 minutes ago, bradders said:

Gosh, what an interesting and emotionally charged forum. We are Uk based huge ex Crystal fans, we eventually got money back from credit cards for non delivered Crystal Cruises.
 

The way we see it, is a name and logo has been purchased by an unproven operator in the cruise sector. We desperately hope the new Crystal meets the mark. So far we have yet to see anything to win our loyalty and comfort, that is fine we will wait with an open mind. In the interim we are enjoying exploring competitor lines, Regent, Oceania and booked on the new Explora journeys. 
 

Really hope the new Crystal is magnificent but they will need to win that accolade before I hand over any money based on a rather unimpressive pre deposit offer alongside no itineraries and a very empty website.

 

Just as an FYI, A&K have been running expedition cruises for many years. We did an Antarctic expedition cruise with them in 2010. 

[skybluewaters]

59 minutes ago, bradders said:

The way we see it, is a name and logo has been purchased by an unproven operator in the cruise sector.

 

Hardly unproven.  Manfredi Lefebvre d'Ovidio is among the most accomplished luxury cruise operators, while Abercrombie & Kent has reliably provided world-class travel packages for many years. 

 

[PaulMCO]

1 hour ago, skybluewaters said:

 

Hardly unproven.  Manfredi Lefebvre d'Ovidio is among the most accomplished luxury cruise operators, while Abercrombie & Kent has reliably provided world-class travel packages for many years. 

 

Yes but this is a startup from near ZERO cruise line,.  Manfredi is the big guy - and he has never started a cruise line -- PAPA did.  He did take the running line and expanded it significantly.  Some might say he HAD to sell SS because it was financially over extended with debt from new builds.  And lucky he did -- likely would not have survived with a 3 year COVID shutdown.

Edited January 25, 2023 by PaulMCO

[wearesiamese]

It's starting to feel like we have a bunch of back seat drivers on this board(eyes rolling)

[BWIVince]

2 hours ago, wearesiamese said:

It's starting to feel like we have a bunch of back seat drivers on this board(eyes rolling)

 

Isn't that supposed to be a fun of an online forum?   🙂  Airline forums are (generally) worse -- everyone is an armchair CEO.

 

Vince

[SusieQft]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:25 PM, Keith1010 said:

Less rooms means less crew.

Not necessarily, if you believe their website.  Now Crystal says "NEARLY ONE STAFF MEMBER PER GUEST". If I recall correctly, they previously had a crew to passenger ratio between 0.6 and 0.7.  With the reduced number of passengers, that sounds to me like approximately the same number of crew.  Unless they think that 0.7 is "nearly one," LOL.

[Keith1010]

2 hours ago, SusieQft said:

Not necessarily, if you believe their website.  Now Crystal says "NEARLY ONE STAFF MEMBER PER GUEST". If I recall correctly, they previously had a crew to passenger ratio between 0.6 and 0.7.  With the reduced number of passengers, that sounds to me like approximately the same number of crew.  Unless they think that 0.7 is "nearly one," LOL.

There will be an excellent ratio of crew to guests but there will be less crew.  

[Stickman1990]

Yes according to Wikipedia here were 655 crew on old Serenity - so I’m guess it will be less than 600 going forward (just a guess) as new Serenity has a stated capacity of 740 going forward - so say 80% crew to passengers (if they kept the old numbers it would be 88% - but why would they do that with so many less room/capacity) - is that excellent? - not sure 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Serenity

[Jinn]

Has anyone gotten a single supplement for an aquamarine cabin?  Thanks, Julia