Why don't elite get drinks from 5-7 on embarkation. Is something else going on

[drakes2]

4 minutes ago, the penguins said:

This was raised at a Q and A with the senior management on Silhouette in May. The Hotel Director's explanation was. 80% of the crew across the fleet returned. As the first few ships started to cruise it was therefore easy to fill them with experienced staff but this became increasingly difficult. Visa, vaccination and quarantine regulations have made it increasingly hard to recruit from Celebrity's traditional areas which is why they are stepping up recruitment in the Carribbean and South America. Recruitment levels are improving but of course these new recruits are untrained and therefore cannot just fit seamlessly into the operation. He wouldn't commit to how long it would take to reach prepandemic levels of fully trained staff but did say that the manning levels were not being reduced.

It was great in October on the Equinox not good in May Eclipse to Hawaii but having said that it was Eclipse's first sailing since March 2020 and all crew were still being trained so I guess I should cut them some slack  

[Spif Barwunkel]

Because one is Elite, why should one get anything at all? That is a valid question and not as easy to answer as you might think. Would you cruise with X as any status if you got nothing at all? On the other hand, would you cruise with X if you got everything you thought you deserved, even if you didn't?

[jagoffee]

9 hours ago, the penguins said:

 

I agree not the same but your point was that the old system gave you more choice but it didn't. For example under 1,2, 3 if you chose 1 it was full price you had to choose all 3 to get the "saving". The same applied to BBB. The options are the still the same it's just the presentation that's changed.

The one that was different was the thankfully short lived compolsary AI which now only applies  to Aqua and Suites.

I recall the programs very differently.  Perhaps that is why you and I had different opinions of the old programs and maybe even the current program.

The Big ( a choice of one perk) was not the cost difference of the Classic Drink package as you are implying.  The prices were marketed in many different ways.  (Some times even offered as a TA  special.). You could pick which ever perk you wanted.  Some people selected the Classic drink package and others picked the OBC.  Better (a choice of 2 perks) and the Best a choice of 3 perks with a bonus.  You received a savings on anyone of the three options. 
The Big (choice of I perk) was not priced at the difference between a no perk rate and a Big rate.  

 

Today  those in cabins below Aqua Class have a choice between Cruise Only and AI.  Aqua Class does not have a choice and the AI is built into the rate.  I seriously doubt that is is built into the rate at the retail rate of each perk.  
The Retreat (suites) offers neither a Cruise only or AI rate.  Retreat includes the old Indulge Package, which includes the Premium Drink Package, Premium Internet package, gratuities, and OBC.  

 

The history of the old programs does not really matter and we have a difference in recollection. 
The  current program is what is important today.

[Ipeeinthepools]

50 minutes ago, the penguins said:

This was raised at a Q and A with the senior management on Silhouette in May. The Hotel Director's explanation was. 80% of the crew across the fleet returned. As the first few ships started to cruise it was therefore easy to fill them with experienced staff but this became increasingly difficult. Visa, vaccination and quarantine regulations have made it increasingly hard to recruit from Celebrity's traditional areas which is why they are stepping up recruitment in the Carribbean and South America. Recruitment levels are improving but of course these new recruits are untrained and therefore cannot just fit seamlessly into the operation. He wouldn't commit to how long it would take to reach prepandemic levels of fully trained staff but did say that the manning levels were not being reduced.

 

The fact of the matter is that they are operating at reduce staffing levels and service has declined.  It's been well over a year since they resumed cruising so that excuse is starting to become less believable.  Sure it may be more difficult, but they have had more than a year to adjust.  I don't know about you but if I couldn't resolve a problem in a year, my boss would be looking for my replacement.

[davekathy]

55 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Because one is Elite, why should one get anything at all? That is a valid question and not as easy to answer as you might think. Would you cruise with X as any status if you got nothing at all?

 

On the other hand, would you cruise with X if you got everything you thought you deserved, even if you didn't?

 

Yes. Did for years. We don't chase the tier levels. 

 

I wouldn't say deserved, but paid for. Yes. Happening now. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by davekathy

[D C]

8 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Because one is Elite, why should one get anything at all? That is a valid question and not as easy to answer as you might think. Would you cruise with X as any status if you got nothing at all? On the other hand, would you cruise with X if you got everything you thought you deserved, even if you didn't?

Why? 

Because the powers that be at celebrity decided to reward their most loyal, repeat guests with perks of varying cost and perceived value. 

 

We've cruised with X for 10 years because we like the product, not because of perks. Now that we're elite with X, our next 2 cruises are are on Princess because Celebrity has decided to jack prices up to where they're the high cost provider.  

[Ipeeinthepools]

3 minutes ago, D C said:

Why? 

Because the powers that be at celebrity decided to reward their most loyal, repeat guests with perks of varying cost and perceived value. 

 

We've cruised with X for 10 years because we like the product, not because of perks. Now that we're elite with X, our next 2 cruises are are on Princess because Celebrity has decided to jack prices up to where they're the high cost provider.  

 

Be sure to let us know what you think of Princess.  More of us need to stop paying these high prices for lower levels of service.  I hope you enjoy your next two cruises.

[DaKahuna]

8 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

The fact of the matter is that they are operating at reduce staffing levels and service has declined.  It's been well over a year since they resumed cruising so that excuse is starting to become less believable.  Sure it may be more difficult, but they have had more than a year to adjust.  I don't know about you but if I couldn't resolve a problem in a year, my boss would be looking for my replacement.

 

 You are aware that many restaurants ashore are having some of the same issues.  I know of three restaurants that had to go out of business because they could not get waitstaff.  It seems that post-COVID no one wants to work in lower paying service industry jobs that are outside the home. 

 

[Ipeeinthepools]

5 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 You are aware that many restaurants ashore are having some of the same issues.  I know of three restaurants that had to go out of business because they could not get waitstaff.  It seems that post-COVID no one wants to work in lower paying service industry jobs that are outside the home. 

 

 

I'm not sure this is an apples-to-apples comparison.   There's a big difference between people in US cities not choosing to work for a variety of reasons and recruiting workers from countries with a lot fewer employment opportunities.  At least the restaurants that chose to close are being honest by not offering substandard service.  Perhaps Celebrity should operate fewer ships if they don't have the staff.

[NutsAboutGolf]

9 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 You are aware that many restaurants ashore are having some of the same issues.  I know of three restaurants that had to go out of business because they could not get waitstaff.  It seems that post-COVID no one wants to work in lower paying service industry jobs that are outside the home. 

 

 

Compared to your three, how many restaurants do you know that did NOT go out of business?  While it's possible a restaurant could have bad luck, there are usually other issues.  I'll use a national fast food chain as an example, Chick-Fil-A's aren't even open on Sundays and yet they almost never go out of business

[markeb]

There are parts of this thread I find incredibly fascinating...

 

From the supplier's (Celebrity) standpoint, the Captain's Club isn't a rewards program. It's a customer retention program. Provide a goal and make the perceived cost of switching high enough, and your customers will return to achieve the goal. It's generally cheaper to retain customers than to acquire new ones. But you want to retain customers with the greatest lifetime value. I hate to break it to you, but the folks at the higher tiers who don't stay in suites, don't buy drink packages, count on drinks at the Elite events, don't pay for ship's excursions, don't pay for Wi-Fi, don't buy photo packages, etc., are not high margin customers. They extracted the value from you on your way to Elite. And yes, we're Elite (thanks to the much maligned relationship with the Captain's Club), but we've largely paid for Aqua or Retreat with drinks and Wi-Fi and do sometimes go on ship's excursions (we've outgrown the photos like everyone else). And there are higher tier members on this board who do the same.

 

I'm sure they have the data to know all of that. About members collectively. And each of us as an individual. And no elite drinks on the first night is spelled out in the terms and conditions. Along with the option to change the program at any time.

[NutsAboutGolf]

9 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Because one is Elite, why should one get anything at all? That is a valid question and not as easy to answer as you might think.

Competition...Because their competitors, both cruise lines and land resorts have them

 

9 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Would you cruise with X as any status if you got nothing at all? On the other hand, would you cruise with X if you got everything you thought you deserved, even if you didn't?

Price...For both questions, it comes down to the all in cruise fare

[NutsAboutGolf]

 

17 minutes ago, markeb said:

retain customers with the greatest lifetime value. I hate to break it to you, but the folks at the higher tiers who don't stay in suites, don't buy drink packages, count on drinks at the Elite events, don't pay for ship's excursions, don't pay for Wi-Fi, don't buy photo packages, etc., are not high margin customers.

 

X isn't doing anything extra to attract the high margin customers who spend a lot on board compared to the customer who buys nothing on board.  X does try to attract another type of perceived high margin customer, the gamblers.  They'll offer them free staterooms; should be noted the CC's loyalty status is lifetime while the casino/BCC status is only annual

[DaKahuna]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Compared to your three, how many restaurants do you know that did NOT go out of business?  While it's possible a restaurant could have bad luck, there are usually other issues.  I'll use a national fast food chain as an example, Chick-Fil-A's aren't even open on Sundays and yet they almost never go out of business

 

 Chick-fil-A's business model accounts for not being open on Sunday's.  I do not know about where you live but our local Chick-fil-A is almost always busy.  I cannot recall a time when I have pulled into the drive through and not had one or two cars ahead of me.  Additionally, Chick-fil-A. pays the highest wages of any of the local fast food restaurants and reward their employees well.  Hell, I am retired and have even thought about working there part time just for something to do.   

 

I only mentioned three restaurants because that is what I know of personally in my local area.  I am sure there are others.  

 

But we are getting off topic here.   

 

Not having an Elite Happy Hour is a holdover from Pre-COVID when the Elite Happy Hour was held in the Sky Lounge and used a large number of waiters as well as servers walking around with trays of snacks (I miss those) not to mention twice the number of bartenders than normal.    That said, I do believe that unless they are going back to that type of a Happy Hour, they should allow Elite drinks on embarkation day from 5 - 7 as you can tell from this thread, there is no longer a justification for it that makes sense beyond Celebrity saving money. 

 

[Dirk_Pitt]

I am a million mile flyer on United so lifetime gold with free access to economy plus and free bags along with priority boarding.  I know other airlines may be cheaper, but I fly United because I earned those perks and collect miles for future visits

 

Same with Celebrity, although we sail RCL, Azamara and Celebrity.  We got to Elite via Azamara and Celebrity.  If the added in RCL we may be Elite+..  However, I see being Elite/Diamond on 3 cruise lines giving me options and I earned those benefits with my patronage.  I am also Ruby on Princess.  I have sailed Carnaval, Norwegian and Holland America but don't care for them as much as the RCL brands and Princess

 

We sailed the Vision of the Seas on RCL recreantly to Venice and were happy.  Typically it is more about the destination than the ship.  Although I must admit we are sailing on the Beyond to see the ship.  We saw the video on it while sailing the Millennium through the Panama Canal in October amnd the sailing lined up so we could visit my daughter in Miami.

 

So to cut to the chase, I like being Elite as it applies to 3 cruise lines that offer different levels of service at different costs.  You want lower cost, go on RCL.  They are still nice cruises.  Celebrity and Azamara both pamper you.  We did B2B Azamra Cruises last march and were really happy even though they are smaller older ships.  Frankly, we have enjoyed all of our cruises on all 3 of the lines the Elite/Diamond level applies to.

 

The status level does help retain me as a customer.  For example on Celebrity, it doesn't make sense to get the All Inclusive cruise with most fares based on all the Elite Perks.  I stay at the Marriot because I am life time Gold as well.

 

These status levels retain me as a customer and I earned them with my patronage

 

BUT, I have gone off topic from the original post.  Knowing the there is no happy hour on embarkation day is all we need to know.  Paying for one night of drinks still comes out way ahead

[Ipeeinthepools]

12 minutes ago, Dirk_Pitt said:

....

So to cut to the chase, I like being Elite as it applies to 3 cruise lines that offer different levels of service at different costs.  You want lower cost, go on RCL.  They are still nice cruises.  Celebrity and Azamara both pamper you.  We did B2B Azamra Cruises last march and were really happy even though they are smaller older ships. ....

 

I've sailed a lot on both RCL and Celebrity and I've found the service on both lines to be equivalent.  All of my experience has been in standard balcony cabins, never in a suite.  One experience I've never had on either line is being pampered.  Perhaps we have different definitions of being pampered.  Can you give me a couple of examples of how Celebrity pampers the average cruiser because I've never seen it.

[Dirk_Pitt]

Just now, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I've sailed a lot on both RCL and Celebrity and I've found the service on both lines to be equivalent.  All of my experience has been in standard balcony cabins, never in a suite.  One experience I've never had on either line is being pampered.  Perhaps we have different definitions of being pampered.  Can you give me a couple of examples of how Celebrity pampers the average cruiser because I've never seen it.

likely a misstatement on my part to how others would read it.  The service (Azamara/Celebrity) seemed better lately, but the ships were also at half capacity, not the situation when we sailed the Vision of the seas.  I have been happy on all 3 lines 

 

Let me rephrase to say that being Elite Diamond provides options on 3 different cruise lines providing different costs depending on each ship for different itineraries.  Having more options to choose from is a good thing

[the penguins]

13 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

The fact of the matter is that they are operating at reduce staffing levels and service has declined.  It's been well over a year since they resumed cruising so that excuse is starting to become less believable.  Sure it may be more difficult, but they have had more than a year to adjust.  I don't know about you but if I couldn't resolve a problem in a year, my boss would be looking for my replacement.

Just curious, and I'm sure the bosses at X would be delighted too know to,  but where would you find new experienced crew who were:

1) fully vaccinated ( many countries don't provide this for younger people).

2) can get visas for the countries required (again every country the ship visits has different requirements and a lot have added to the requirements post Covid).

3) you must also allow for the 28 days minimum quarantine that was originally required between being offered a contract and being able to work on a ship.

4) add in the training.

5) be prepared to work for a full contract without ever being allowed off the ship - this last has been gradually dropped but was a problem earlier.

When UK cruises restarted even the Guest Entertainers weren't allowed to leave the ship - for example Olie Nez and Matt McGurk all had to sign on for the whole season. Guest Lecturers refused to sign up for the same reason.

Ships are not liked land based operations that have few of the above problems.

 

 

3) 

[Mark_T]

6 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

... there is no longer a justification for it that makes sense beyond Celebrity saving money. 

 

That's all the justification they need...

 

There is no 'right' that is being infringed here, they don't have to offer any justification at all, it is the benefit they have decided to offer and it is clearly published as excluding the first day, so no misrepresentation there either...

 

 

[Ipeeinthepools]

3 hours ago, the penguins said:

Just curious, and I'm sure the bosses at X would be delighted too know to,  but where would you find new experienced crew who were:

1) fully vaccinated ( many countries don't provide this for younger people).

2) can get visas for the countries required (again every country the ship visits has different requirements and a lot have added to the requirements post Covid).

3) you must also allow for the 28 days minimum quarantine that was originally required between being offered a contract and being able to work on a ship.

4) add in the training.

5) be prepared to work for a full contract without ever being allowed off the ship - this last has been gradually dropped but was a problem earlier.

When UK cruises restarted even the Guest Entertainers weren't allowed to leave the ship - for example Olie Nez and Matt McGurk all had to sign on for the whole season. Guest Lecturers refused to sign up for the same reason.

Ships are not liked land based operations that have few of the above problems.

 

 

3) 

 

The answer to all of your questions is the same way they do it for the staff currently on their ships.  They have the whole world to look for staff.  No, I do not know the answer to all of your questions but none of those constraints appear to be difficult.   Remember the ships are already staffed at 80+ percent staffing levels, just increase the effort.  Training, vaccination and quarantine (if still applicable) are just timing constraints and should not pose a huge problem.  However, if it was my job to staff a cruise ship I would know the complete procedure and I sure would have been able to solve the problem in a year. 

 

How about this for perspective, scientists at several companies developed the vaccines for Covid in less time than the cruise lines have had to fully staff their ships.  Which do you think is more difficult?

[drakes2]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:13 AM, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I'm not sure that custom is justification of anything on Celebrity.  There have been many changes in Celebrity policies over the last few years and "custom" has not been considered in any of those changes.  I haven't seen any reason that Celebrity cannot include an Elite event on Day one.   If Celebrity was really concerned about the workload on the bar staff, perhaps they should consider returning the bar staff staffing levels to the pre-Covid levels.

Nor do I.  Whether you purchase a drink at a bar during embarkation HH or use your Elite benefit the bartender still has to charge the card to the appropriate department  ie  alcohol used gets coded to Elite benefits.  Example I ordered an Aperol which bartender made me it was not day 1 next night different crew member said no the Alcohol used has to be charged to Elite. Not really sure but that's what I was told. 

[wrk2cruise]

1 hour ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

However, if it was my job to staff a cruise ship I would know the complete procedure and I sure would have been able to solve the problem in a year.

 

And if it couldn't be resolved they certainly had the opportunity to operate a a capacity where they could deliver the advertised product.

 

I also seriously question the 80% return of staff.  On several sailings in the last 6 months the number of new untrained staff struggling was very noticeable.   Much different than the first 9 months after the return to service.

[drakes2]

29 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

And if it couldn't be resolved they certainly had the opportunity to operate a a capacity where they could deliver the advertised product.

 

I also seriously question the 80% return of staff.  On several sailings in the last 6 months the number of new untrained staff struggling was very noticeable.   Much different than the first 9 months after the return to service.

My friend was all excited to purchase 2 bottle of Elegance Pinot noir on the ship to take home waiter quoted her $40 each. He said would be all boxed up safely second to last night she went to pay he said oh did I say $40 no its $70 each plus gratuities.  Really,  now where on-board can you even find  a  40 dollar bottle of wine?

[kirtihk]

On 12/4/2022 at 6:52 AM, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

The answer to all of your questions is the same way they do it for the staff currently on their ships.  They have the whole world to look for staff.  No, I do not know the answer to all of your questions but none of those constraints appear to be difficult.   Remember the ships are already staffed at 80+ percent staffing levels, just increase the effort.  Training, vaccination and quarantine (if still applicable) are just timing constraints and should not pose a huge problem.  However, if it was my job to staff a cruise ship I would know the complete procedure and I sure would have been able to solve the problem in a year. 

 

How about this for perspective, scientists at several companies developed the vaccines for Covid in less time than the cruise lines have had to fully staff their ships.  Which do you think is more difficult?

It's an improper comparison (different fields, approaches, sources, environment, resources).  Besides, one may not blame cruise lines for any matter related to March 2020; blame the real cause if one wishes, not businesses having been pushed to bend all that time because of it.

[Ipeeinthepools]

7 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

It's an improper comparison (different fields, approaches, sources, environment, resources).  Besides, one may not blame cruise lines for any matter related to March 2020; blame the real cause if one wishes, not businesses having been pushed to bend all that time because of it.

 

Sorry it's completely proper.  If businesses are not consistently pushed to the limit, they are too fat.  The cruise lines need to adopt the "failure is not an option" approach to business.  Lots of companies made significant adjustments during the pandemic.  For example auto companies made medical ventilators.  They used their sourcing and manufacturing expertise to build a completely different product in a matter of months.  If hiring is still a problem, then the cruise lines need to identify the true choke points and put more resources in these areas.