Who gets the tips if I don't drink $109 in booze per day?

[JGmf]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

I'm one who looks at the total out of pocket for the total cost of my cruise.  It's not just the fare, it's the DSC...it's the tips...it's the transport to and from the pier...it's the excursions...etc.  If that total number is not to my liking, I don't book that cruise.

 

If my total out of pocket was listed as $1,000 DSC but the cruise was free.  That's what I'm spending, regardless of what you want to call it.

 

Amen @graphicguy.  Well said.  Wholeheartedly agree.

 

 

[KarlChilders]

Can't believe I'm wading into a tipping thread but here goes. Just off a three day Getaway cruise to the Bahamas. The bartenders were slammed busy but doing a tremendous job and greeting everyone pleasantly and serving quickly, efficently and with a very friendly attitude. If they were unhappy with their employment arrangement, I can't see them working that hard and smiling away if they felt they weren't being sufficently rewarded for their efforts.  I always had them a dollar with my card, but saw few others doing this.  They didn't seem to treat anyone differently.  

As graphicguy said earlier I evaluated the total cost of the cruise and decide if it is a value for me, so far it has been on five cruises.  

 

Last thing, there have been several comparisons to tips to servers in land based restaurants.  If you tip on a credit card, you have no idea whether or not your server gets all that tip or if it is split amongst the staff or even if management takes a cut.  Even if you hand your server cash, they still might have to pool tips with the rest of the staff.

[wil e coyote]

1 hour ago, MoCruiseFan said:

"compensated by a combination of salary AND incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge"

At the risk of starting another debate - much of the back and forth on this thread has to do with parsing the sentence above and trying to determine the exact meaning of it. Does this mean that the DSC helps pay salary, or that only the incentive programs are funded in part by the DSC?

I have to point out we (the CC readers) may be putting a lot more energy into interpreting this sentence than NCL did in writing it in the first place. Despite the strident arguments on both sides, there is no way to know for sure without asking NCL.

I agree that punctuation matters ("Let's eat grandma" vs. "Let's eat, grandma"). But I have also seen many examples where what was meant was not exactly what ended up being written. English is a hard language when you are trying to be precise.

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, wil e coyote said:

English is a hard language when you are trying to be precise.

English can be quite easy especially when you're torturing it to say what you want it to mean.

[IronRobi]

2 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

You are ignoring the way the sentence is written and punctuated.  It states the the employees are "compensated by a combination of salary AND incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge", two separate means of compensation "salary" AND "incentive programs that are funded in part by the DSC".  Ergo the sentence in no way says that the DSC pays salaries.

Not ignoring at all. The fact that they use the word ARE means it is speaking of multiple nouns, otherwise a singular noun would be phrased with the word IS. So in this case both the salary and incentive programs ARE funded in part by the service charge, exactly as it says. Now one could try to argue that since the word programs is plural, that are would be an appropriate use there as well. Which is correct. However if this were the case there would be some sort of distinction to single out incentive programs from salary, exactly how they did with the wellness program. 

 

Think of it in a simpler example.... "My brother and sisters are coming home for Christmas". One would not take from this that only my sisters are coming home for Christmas right?

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, wil e coyote said:

At the risk of starting another debate - much of the back and forth on this thread has to do with parsing the sentence above and trying to determine the exact meaning of it. Does this mean that the DSC helps pay salary, or that only the incentive programs are funded in part by the DSC?

You're right.  That said, I believe that the context and the statement itself makes it clear that DSC is not being used to pay salary (which would make no sense whatsoever).  The incentive programs are funded in part by DSC, which I believe is a good/fair system and one that I'll happily support.  It's core to freestyle sailing that I can pay those separately and not feel constantly compelled to pull out my wallet to tip the crew.

[graphicguy]

Aside from arguing semantics, I wonder if there's a business model where a "no frills" cruise line could exist?  Almost like some of the airlines like Spirit and Frontier offer?  Seems like a few here are asking exactly for that.

 

You would pay a low fare that gets you on the ship and sailing.  But, everything is extra.  It would be like a hotel.  Drinks would be extra (charged by the drink).  Food is extra.  You want to go to a show on board you'd pay an admission fee.  Handling your luggage would be extra.  The cabins would be basic...only interior rooms.  You want cabins on a better part of the ship, you have to pay extra.

 

Tips of course would be extra.  If you wanted room service, you'd tip.  If you got a drink at one of the bars, you'd tip.  There would be a charge for the buffet.  You'd tip those who would bring you a drink or clears your table.  There would be another charge for dining in the MDR and you'd have to leave a tip for your servers.  You'd tip your room steward.

 

It sounds like some of the folks here want that sort of experience.  Maybe there's a business model there.

 

Wouldn't be for me, but a couple of people in here might like it.  Don't like the name of the service fees or tips?  Go totally a la carte for everything.  You don't want to pay a service fee or tip?  You don't get the service that would be provided to those who did pay the service fee.

[wil e coyote]

4 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

You're right.  That said, I believe that the context and the statement itself makes it clear that DSC is not being used to pay salary (which would make no sense whatsoever).  The incentive programs are funded in part by DSC, which I believe is a good/fair system and one that I'll happily support.  It's core to freestyle sailing that I can pay those separately and not feel constantly compelled to pull out my wallet to tip the crew.

FWIW (which isn't much), I agree with you, and I also support paying the DSC. If I didn't, I would find another cruise line. But I can't prove my belief, and neither can anyone else...🤪

[fshagan]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

English can be quite easy especially when you're torturing it to say what you want it to mean.

 

English is hard enough that the US 1st District appeals court had to get involved between management and truckers over the lack of an "Oxford comma" - https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/15/health/oxford-comma-maine-court-case-trnd/index.html

 

Management lost, for want of a comma, and had to pay millions in overtime.

 

Luckily, the stakes here is just arguing on an Internet forum, and not the actual pay the employees receive.

 

[cruiseny4life]

49 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Aside from arguing semantics, I wonder if there's a business model where a "no frills" cruise line could exist?  Almost like some of the airlines like Spirit and Frontier offer?  Seems like a few here are asking exactly for that.

 

You would pay a low fare that gets you on the ship and sailing.  But, everything is extra.  It would be like a hotel.  Drinks would be extra (charged by the drink).  Food is extra.  You want to go to a show on board you'd pay an admission fee.  Handling your luggage would be extra.  The cabins would be basic...only interior rooms.  You want cabins on a better part of the ship, you have to pay extra.

 

Tips of course would be extra.  If you wanted room service, you'd tip.  If you got a drink at one of the bars, you'd tip.  There would be a charge for the buffet.  You'd tip those who would bring you a drink or clears your table.  There would be another charge for dining in the MDR and you'd have to leave a tip for your servers.  You'd tip your room steward.

 

It sounds like some of the folks here want that sort of experience.  Maybe there's a business model there.

 

Wouldn't be for me, but a couple of people in here might like it.  Don't like the name of the service fees or tips?  Go totally a la carte for everything.  You don't want to pay a service fee or tip?  You don't get the service that would be provided to those who did pay the service fee.

 

Ewwww, why in the name of all that is "freestyle" would you give NCL hegemony this idea? 

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

Aside from arguing semantics, I wonder if there's a business model where a "no frills" cruise line could exist?  Almost like some of the airlines like Spirit and Frontier offer?  Seems like a few here are asking exactly for that

No, that isn't what they're asking for.  They want all the perks but at "no frills" pricing.  Too many seem to think that doing away with the DSC/Tipping/Gratuities means their prices will be reduced.  They think the cruise lines have so much money they can eat the costs of supplying a crew.

[mianmike]

chengkp75 (who worked for NCL) has already settled whether DSC goes to salary.  It does. 

 

[Georgia_Peaches]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

You would pay a low fare that gets you on the ship and sailing.  But, everything is extra.  It would be like a hotel.  Drinks would be extra (charged by the drink).  Food is extra.  You want to go to a show on board you'd pay an admission fee.  Handling your luggage would be extra.  The cabins would be basic...only interior rooms.  You want cabins on a better part of the ship, you have to pay extra.

Sounds dreadful!  I'll take the all inclusive model (and pay for it as one fare) thank you very much!  Oh, and I don't do well on no frills airlines either 😎.  Like you, I make a budget for a cruise and if that budget gets me everything I want (suite, drinks, tips, thermal suite, wifi) then I book.  If it doesn't, then I wait until I find something that fits the budget.  

 

When we were on the Escape back in 2020 we booked the thermal suite.  I believe it was in the neighborhood of $220 for the week, or roughly $31 per visit.  I used the thermal suite 4 out of the 7 days.  It has never occurred to me to ask what happens to the $91 in unused thermal suite visits.  I just chalk it up to the cost is the cost regardless of how many uses.  I think that's what most people do with regard to the drinks package or anything else that's a flat rate.

[IronRobi]

REMOVING

Edited December 13, 2022 by IronRobi

[MoCruiseFan]

OK, OK, OK, I'll fess up.  NCL makes a monthly direct deposit into a numbered off-shore bank account that is subsequently laundered into my person checking account.  The deposit they send me is any unused tips, DSC, and cash tips handed directly to the bar and dining staff.  Thank to this gracious activity by NCL, my retirement fund is quite substantial.  Now you know the whole story.

Oh yeah, please keep tipping cash! 🙂

[MoCruiseFan]

 

4 hours ago, IronRobi said:

Not ignoring at all. The fact that they use the word ARE means it is speaking of multiple nouns, otherwise a singular noun would be phrased with the word IS. So in this case both the salary and incentive programs ARE funded in part by the service charge, exactly as it says. Now one could try to argue that since the word programs is plural, that are would be an appropriate use there as well. Which is correct. However if this were the case there would be some sort of distinction to single out incentive programs from salary, exactly how they did with the wellness program. 

 

Think of it in a simpler example.... "My brother and sisters are coming home for Christmas". One would not take from this that only my sisters are coming home for Christmas right?

 

Not at all, ARE is referring to a singular PLURAL noun.  Ergo 'incentive PROGRAMS are' vs 'incentive  PROGRAM is.  Your example is completely contextually different.  Had NCL wanted to say that both nouns are support by the DSC, there would be a comma after the word programs.  I am taking the statement as it is literally written, nothing more nothing less.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by MoCruiseFan

[mtrancher]

15 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

OK, OK, OK, I'll fess up.  NCL makes a monthly direct deposit into a numbered off-shore bank account that is subsequently laundered into my person checking account.  The deposit they send me is any unused tips, DSC, and cash tips handed directly to the bar and dining staff.  Thank to this gracious activity by NCL, my retirement fund is quite substantial.  Now you know the whole story.

Oh yeah, please keep tipping cash! 🙂

Awe but then we must hope your offshore account gets debited when someone drinks far more than their $109's in drinks. You should immediately review your contract and make sure the evil powers @ NCL don't have you at a point where you can owe money and consequently get debited more than ever credited. 😉

[RocketMan275]

25 minutes ago, mtrancher said:

Awe but then we must hope your offshore account gets debited when someone drinks far more than their $109's in drinks. You should immediately review your contract and make sure the evil powers @ NCL don't have you at a point where you can owe money and consequently get debited more than ever credited. 😉

We could drive him into bankruptcy.  Order drink after drink.  Pour them overboard.  

[mtrancher]

9 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

We could drive him into bankruptcy.  Order drink after drink.  Pour them overboard.  

We should make every attempt at driving them into bankruptcy... however I cannot condone nor participate in alcohol abuse... can't pour drinks overboard, will just have to consume them! 🙂

[ChiefMateJRK]

2 hours ago, mtrancher said:

We should make every attempt at driving them into bankruptcy... however I cannot condone nor participate in alcohol abuse... can't pour drinks overboard, will just have to consume them! 🙂

That is really funny partner!!!  😎  I wonder how many will miss the joke?  Fifty percent??

[complawyer]

mocruisefan....wait until the IRS finds out.D.C. isnt all that big (LOL)

[mtrancher]

1 hour ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

That is really funny partner!!!  😎  I wonder how many will miss the joke?  Fifty percent??

Might go as high as 70 to 80%

[Ray4Fun]

Financial Statement does not line item Gratuities. It is dumped into "Other". Per the statement, or as far as I can ascertain without additional data points. Same issue for Port Charges. They are buried in Other's,,,

[IronRobi]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:09 PM, MoCruiseFan said:

 

 

Not at all, ARE is referring to a singular PLURAL noun.  Ergo 'incentive PROGRAMS are' vs 'incentive  PROGRAM is.  Your example is completely contextually different.  Had NCL wanted to say that both nouns are support by the DSC, there would be a comma after the word programs.  I am taking the statement as it is literally written, nothing more nothing less.

 

Sorry, but no. If the salary portion was meant as an independent clause there would have been the comma after the word salary and before the word AND. I agree it initially looks out of place however there are 2 common scenarios when placing a comma before the word and is acceptable. When you have a list greater than 3 items it's acceptable to put a comma before the final item if it fits your writing style. The other is when there are 2 independent clauses. So if salary were not funded by the DSC, it would read "Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary, and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest." 

 

Placing the comma after the word programs is not proper grammar, and you can freely verify this yourself using Grammarly. (Note that this sentence is another independent clause where the comma before and is acceptable).

 

EDIT: Also remember that this is from a legal document of a multi-billion dollar publicly traded company. Improper placement of a comma (or lack of one) would alter the meaning of the document and could result in lawsuits or even jailtime. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by IronRobi

[SeaShark]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:52 AM, RocketMan275 said:

We could drive him into bankruptcy.  Order drink after drink.  Pour them overboard.  

 

Already been tried....which is why NCL instituted things like the $15 cost limit on drinks, or the 1 app, 1 entree, 1 dessert policy on free dinners. Start wasting drinks and you'll be back here whining about the new drinks per day limit they'll add.

 

 

On a related note, what about the other side of this topic, is anybody wondering "If I drink MORE than 109 in booze per day, who gets screwed out of tips"?