Live from the Orion Auckland to Sydney Dec22 - Jan5

[katlew]

Well, it’s our last night on the Orion & despite it all we are slightly sad to be getting off. This is not the trip we had planned & looked forward too, it was a little like Groundhog Day everyday at sea, but we were lucky to be with family we enjoy & meet some really fabulous Viking staff who made our trip.

 

We had a lovely mid-morning sail-in to Sydney & arrived in port before just after 10am. Our original time was 1pm. We had a tour at 1:45pm, so stayed & had lunch on the boat. Because we are in the White Bay terminal pretty far away from the CBD there was a shuttle running every 1/2 hour into town until 10:40pm for those without tours. We took the included Sydney Panorama tour & it was really great, we don’t often like this type of bus tour. It was 3.5 hours and we saw lots of Sydney & had lots of stops. Our guide was full of information & the group on our bus was interested & asked questions. When we stopped, it was not just a photo stop all the time, but our guide walking us around a small area. We also had about 45 minutes to explore Bondi Beach which was just enough on a gusty, grey day.

Then it was back to the boat to get our luggage out followed by cocktails & music by Laurence in the Explorers Lounge. We were treated to a beautiful rainbow over the city, a treat after such a cruise.
We ended the night with the Scandinavian dinner at the Chef’s Table. We have traveled through Sweden, Norway, & Denmark, plus live in Minnesota, so we love Scandinavian food. This menu has its high & low points. The reindeer consume is great, as is the salmon dish, though the dill was very soft. The granita was just too beety to be a palette cleanser. The lamb loin was great, but the shank was so-so & the cabbage needed salt. The wine pairings were great though especially the dessert pairing. We do so love the service here though & our favorite wine steward Tendi is a treat!

Off to bed as we have to be out of our room by 8 & head to the hotel for our Sydney extension.

[Triptkr]

@katlew,

Thank you for keeping all of us in the loop of your situation.  For myself, I appreciate hearing how Viking has handled the whole mess...vouchers, refunds, etc.  Whether they have or haven't refunded and whether it's in voucher or cash, it's helpful for the rest of us to know so we can make the correct decision for our future vacations.

If you don't mind, please continue to keep us apprised if Viking changes or adds anything to the compensation package once you get home.   

[chengkp75]

16 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Has anyone seen exactly what type of organism they are hot about?

Basically, anything that is not native to NZ.  It is just another step like ballast water management to mitigate invasive species.

 

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

If, after surveying the entire hull, they worked in a few specific areas, then that would favour the sea chests

Yes, from what I heard about the Princess ship that was denied access, it was mainly in the sea chests.  While most ships that do UWILD inspections have sea chest covers that are hinged, it is still a very difficult job for the divers to accomplish, and the sea chests are not easy to clean.  There can also be growth in the piping from the sea chest to the strainer, as most anti-fouling impressed current systems for sea water piping only start at the sea strainer.

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

the self-polishing/ablative coatings work better when the ship is steaming.

Yep.  My last tanker had self-polishing paint applied, and then the charterer left us anchored for 350 days a year for two years, and even with 3 diver cleanings, when we got back to dry dock, there was 3-4" of hard barnacle growth over 80% of the hull.  If we'd had hard bottom paint instead, most of that would have been avoided.

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

I believe I read some time ago that International had developed a new generation of non-biocide foul release A/F coating, which I recall noted something about "Slime'.

I know that RCI has used teflon based bottom paint for the last 5 years or so.  The smooth teflon surface discourages attachment by larval marine growth through the water flow over the surface.  The hard (much harder than traditional hard bottom paints) surface makes permanent attachment hard to accomplish for growth.

[BobCatter]

Marine people: can you explain what a sea chest is, or point me to a resource other than wiki to learn more about this subject?

[purpleally]

On 1/3/2023 at 7:46 AM, TERRIER1 said:

Although 100% reimbursement via voucher sounds generous there are actually issues with this compensation for some. The voucher will not cover air that was booked independently. Also, some will not or cannot sail again with Viking as previously mentioned. The vouchers also have an expiration date. We were fortunate in that we received 65% cash back to our method of payment plus a 50% voucher when our Viking cruise was terminated due to engine problems. Also, insurance companies consider the voucher as sufficient reimbursement so you can't claim it - at least that is what happened to us. 

Very generous. They got a “free” cruise not unlike a TA.

[chengkp75]

45 minutes ago, BobCatter said:

Marine people: can you explain what a sea chest is, or point me to a resource other than wiki to learn more about this subject?

Here is a good drawing of what a sea chest is:

 

https://www.quora.com/On-a-ship-or-boat-what-is-a-sea-chest

 

And, here's what it looks like on the outside:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommercialdiving.com.au%2Fship-underwater-maintenance%2F&psig=AOvVaw2FF6EUbqJBkRf44ibKdLYX&ust=1672938166378000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCIiM9LmyrvwCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

 

Basically, a sea chest is an enclosed box attached inside the hull, with a grating on the outside that allows it to flood with sea water.  The sea chest then has a pipe attached that leads the sea water to the sea water cooling system of the ship, or the ballast system, or both, depending on design.  It creates a volume of water that is "still" compared to the water flowing past the ship's hull while moving, and therefore a more controlled suction for the sea water pumps.

[BobCatter]

27 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Here is a good drawing of what a sea chest is:

 

https://www.quora.com/On-a-ship-or-boat-what-is-a-sea-chest

 

And, here's what it looks like on the outside:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommercialdiving.com.au%2Fship-underwater-maintenance%2F&psig=AOvVaw2FF6EUbqJBkRf44ibKdLYX&ust=1672938166378000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCIiM9LmyrvwCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

 

Basically, a sea chest is an enclosed box attached inside the hull, with a grating on the outside that allows it to flood with sea water.  The sea chest then has a pipe attached that leads the sea water to the sea water cooling system of the ship, or the ballast system, or both, depending on design.  It creates a volume of water that is "still" compared to the water flowing past the ship's hull while moving, and therefore a more controlled suction for the sea water pumps.

Thank you so much! So is it because the water is in holding (or in and out of various tanks/areas) that the sea chests tend to get fouled? Or more because of the increased surface area due to the grates?

Edited January 4, 2023 by BobCatter

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, BobCatter said:

Thank you so much! So is it because the water is in holding (or in and out of various tanks/areas) that the sea chests tend to get fouled? 

Okay, a bit of anti-fouling 101.  Most ships use a "soft" or ablative type of bottom paint.  The paint has a toxin in it that kills any marine organism that attaches to the paint.  The movement of the ship through the water causes the dead marine growth to slough off.  After a time, the toxin in the outermost part of the paint is exhausted, so growth could happen.  To combat this, the paint is ablative, meaning that over time the outer microns of paint are worn off by the friction of the ship moving through the water, so fresh paint with more toxins are presented as the surface to keep killing growth.  Now, in an area or situation where there is little water movement, like a ship at anchor for a long time, there is no ablation of exhausted paint, so you get marine growth attaching.  A ship that sits at anchor a lot, or an offshore oil rig that doesn't move at all, does better with a "hard" bottom paint, that does not need to have water motion to ablate the surface, the hardness of the paint film helps prevent the marine organisms from attaching in the first place.

 

So, you've got a cruise ship that moves through the water for most of its service, so you want a "self-polishing" or ablative bottom paint as the best choice, but that cruise ship also has sea chests that are designed to slow or still water flow, so this should have a hard bottom paint.  Since the hull surface is hundreds of times the surface area of the sea chests, the entire ship gets painted with the ablative paint, and the sea chests suffer from low water velocity, and foul more quickly than the hull surface.  A common sight in a diver's inspection of the ship's bottom, is "grass" (seaweed) growing at the sea chest gratings, but nowhere else on the hull, due to the difference in water velocity.

[BobCatter]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Okay, a bit of anti-fouling 101.  Most ships use a "soft" or ablative type of bottom paint.  The paint has a toxin in it that kills any marine organism that attaches to the paint.  The movement of the ship through the water causes the dead marine growth to slough off.  After a time, the toxin in the outermost part of the paint is exhausted, so growth could happen.  To combat this, the paint is ablative, meaning that over time the outer microns of paint are worn off by the friction of the ship moving through the water, so fresh paint with more toxins are presented as the surface to keep killing growth.  Now, in an area or situation where there is little water movement, like a ship at anchor for a long time, there is no ablation of exhausted paint, so you get marine growth attaching.  A ship that sits at anchor a lot, or an offshore oil rig that doesn't move at all, does better with a "hard" bottom paint, that does not need to have water motion to ablate the surface, the hardness of the paint film helps prevent the marine organisms from attaching in the first place.

 

So, you've got a cruise ship that moves through the water for most of its service, so you want a "self-polishing" or ablative bottom paint as the best choice, but that cruise ship also has sea chests that are designed to slow or still water flow, so this should have a hard bottom paint.  Since the hull surface is hundreds of times the surface area of the sea chests, the entire ship gets painted with the ablative paint, and the sea chests suffer from low water velocity, and foul more quickly than the hull surface.  A common sight in a diver's inspection of the ship's bottom, is "grass" (seaweed) growing at the sea chest gratings, but nowhere else on the hull, due to the difference in water velocity.

Wow. Thank you for the complete and informative answer!

[katlew]

In case anyone is wondering, we read today on another thread that Regent Explorer passengers were given 100% refund of their cruise fare. They also were able to dock in Adelaide before going out to clean. About 100 passengers got off to find & pay for their own way home. It will now be at sea until Jan 12 when they get to Auckland.

[Azulann]

1 hour ago, katlew said:

In case anyone is wondering, we read today on another thread that Regent Explorer passengers were given 100% refund of their cruise fare. They also were able to dock in Adelaide before going out to clean. About 100 passengers got off to find & pay for their own way home. It will now be at sea until Jan 12 when they get to Auckland.

I have so enjoyed your very unique cruise repost and best of all your attitude. 

Glad you are doing an extension in Sydney.

No need to hurry home. We had 13.5 inches of snow at MSP  as of this morning, and more snow this evening. 

I too enjoyed the Chef Table Scandinavian menu  espiecally the dessert. . 

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Here is a good drawing of what a sea chest is:

 

https://www.quora.com/On-a-ship-or-boat-what-is-a-sea-chest

 

And, here's what it looks like on the outside:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommercialdiving.com.au%2Fship-underwater-maintenance%2F&psig=AOvVaw2FF6EUbqJBkRf44ibKdLYX&ust=1672938166378000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCIiM9LmyrvwCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

 

Basically, a sea chest is an enclosed box attached inside the hull, with a grating on the outside that allows it to flood with sea water.  The sea chest then has a pipe attached that leads the sea water to the sea water cooling system of the ship, or the ballast system, or both, depending on design.  It creates a volume of water that is "still" compared to the water flowing past the ship's hull while moving, and therefore a more controlled suction for the sea water pumps.

 

Thanks Chief - I was going to check my old drydock photos for one of the sea chests, but you beat me to it.

[NSWP]

Excellent information again Chief Cheng.  I have read many of your technical posts over the years.

[Serendiptydesign]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:12 AM, Heidi13 said:

 

Jim - Haven't seen anything definitive as to the location or extent of the fouling.

 

As you know, fouling is nearly always present on hulls and we are increasingly restricted on the products permitted, as in many cases the A/F coatings were more damaging than the fouling on the hull. Back in the 70's & 80's we used TBT and/or arsenic coatings, which were banned by IMO Convention about 15 yrs ago.

 

On my ships, due to the age of our hulls, we drydocked twice every 5 yrs, which was a 2 yr interval followed by a 3 yrs interval. Even with the latest self-polishing/ablative coatings, we always had some fouling on the hull, especially iwo the sea chests and boot topping. Newer cruise ships drydock every 5 yrs, so some type of fouling is expected.

 

Just before I retired, International had introduced Intersleek 900, which was still a biocide foul release coating, but had a higher hull smoothness, so produced better fuel economy. I tried developing the business case for the higher cost coating that was more than offset by fuel savings. Unfortunately, I retired before the first drydocking, so can't compare the fouling to older products.

 

I believe I read some time ago that International had developed a new generation of non-biocide foul release A/F coating, which I recall noted something about "Slime'. Might check into it to see if I can refresh my memory. All other suppliers had similar products, but we were contracted to International, so I knew their products. 

 

With respect to the scope, without having any definitive information, my best guess was normal fouling iwo the sea chests, with possibly some weeds/tubeworms/barnacles in various places. If the divers were working over the entire hull, then it would be wide spread and would take many days. If, after surveying the entire hull, they worked in a few specific areas, then that would favour the sea chests. I'll suggest the almost 18 month COVID shutdown didn't help, as the self-polishing/ablative coatings work better when the ship is steaming.

 

If they did required extensive hull cleaning they will get some fuel savings until the 1st Special Survey drydocking, which should be sometime this year, as I recall she was a 2018 build. Wouldn't be surprised to see her drydock in Singapore before heading to Alaska next summer.

We have just heard from a staff member this is to be the case.

[Serendiptydesign]

13 hours ago, Triptkr said:

@katlew,

Thank you for keeping all of us in the loop of your situation.  For myself, I appreciate hearing how Viking has handled the whole mess...vouchers, refunds, etc.  Whether they have or haven't refunded and whether it's in voucher or cash, it's helpful for the rest of us to know so we can make the correct decision for our future vacations.

If you don't mind, please continue to keep us apprised if Viking changes or adds anything to the compensation package once you get home.   

We have been told the initial package we will receive, and in the middle of appealing for a satisfactory resolution.  If we had the chance we would have got off in Wellingtion if we had known we could not get to Melbourne and Adelaide. 

[myden]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:11 PM, uktog said:

Someone has wires crossed on this one Azamara Quest has not gone to NZ since the pandemic .  It came round from Singapore to Perth to Sydney where it spent New Year and is now en route (as planned) to Melbourne where it disembarks on 4th. It is due to head to NZ arriving in the sounds on 11th. Unlike many ships laid up over the pandemic, Azamara vessels had full dry docks before returning to service in 2021 

Azamara Quest sailing 4th January from Melbourne has had 2 stops cancelled. She is currently heading to Sydney next stop should have been Eden then over to Milford Sound, both cancelled. She will be having the hull cleaned on 10-11th January then hopefully arrived in Dunedin on 12th but later than scheduled. 

[Serendiptydesign]

Hi all since returning home on the 7th January I have spent my time researching and gathering more information regarding the VIKING ORION 12-22-2022. Please keep an eye on the news report out of New Zealand further information regarding the VIKING ORION 12-22-2022 is likely to be released within days. The information has been shared with us  but I am waiting a response from Viking.

[SteelCity Cruiser]

Does anyone on the most recent sailing, or current sailing, have the Orion's phone number and email address? I'm putting together some information/contacts for our family and friends while we're away and since we're not due to board the Orion until Feb 2 in Sydney, but are leaving in 6 days for a 2-week extension in Australia (very excited!!!) we don't have our final documents with this information from Viking yet.  TIA!

 

[CharTrav]

3 hours ago, SteelCity Cruiser said:

Does anyone on the most recent sailing, or current sailing, have the Orion's phone number and email address? I'm putting together some information/contacts for our family and friends while we're away and since we're not due to board the Orion until Feb 2 in Sydney, but are leaving in 6 days for a 2-week extension in Australia (very excited!!!) we don't have our final documents with this information from Viking yet.  TIA!

 

When you get your electronic travel document packet about a week before departure, it's in there. However, since we're leaving for Auckland this Friday and I have our E-docs....
VIKING ORION
+1 323 870 4810 oor_info@vikingcruises.com

[vslparis]

4 hours ago, SteelCity Cruiser said:

Does anyone on the most recent sailing, or current sailing, have the Orion's phone number and email address? I'm putting together some information/contacts for our family and friends while we're away and since we're not due to board the Orion until Feb 2 in Sydney, but are leaving in 6 days for a 2-week extension in Australia (very excited!!!) we don't have our final documents with this information from Viking yet.  TIA!

 

It is also a good idea for them to have your booking number and cabin number . 
Enjoy your extension travelling in Australia it is an amazing country to visit.
We did about 10 days after getting off in Sydney 3 years ago; driving down along the Great Ocean Road, thru some great wine areas and finishing in Adelaide. I would do that again in a heartbeat and hope to do something similar in another area .Lots of interesting places to see and visit in Australia. 

[SteelCity Cruiser]

5 hours ago, CharTrav said:

When you get your electronic travel document packet about a week before departure, it's in there. However, since we're leaving for Auckland this Friday and I have our E-docs....
VIKING ORION
+1 323 870 4810 oor_info@vikingcruises.com

Thank You.  I am aware that the information will be in our e-docs (this is our 7th Viking cruise) but we probably won't have them before we leave the country and I want to provide them to our family and friends who will be 'minding the store' back home for us!

 

 

[katlew]

Well, we are almost home & just an update. One of our party called Viking & was told the voucher would only be for our cruise fare, we have already been reimbursed for missed excursions on our credit card. This doesn’t quite match up with the all monies paid to Viking including the cruise fare we were told on the boat, so we’re interested to see what we actually get. 
 

We did the Viking extension in Sydney & the Marriott is a bit tired. The public areas are fine, but the rooms need a big redo. It was also a bit of a zoo handling the passengers arriving off the ship & those headed to it at what seemed to be the same time. The included Dreamtime tour of the Rocks was very good, but we were happy to get a morning one & be able to get lunch & explore on our own in the afternoon. So glad they divided us into slow & fast groups like the do on the river cruises. 

[CharTrav]

14 minutes ago, SteelCity Cruiser said:

Thank You.  I am aware that the information will be in our e-docs (this is our 7th Viking cruise) but we probably won't have them before we leave the country and I want to provide them to our family and friends who will be 'minding the store' back home for us!

 

 

sorry - scanned and answered your request too quickly - just focussed on your request. 

[katlew]

Just wanted to let those interested know we did receive our vouchers from Viking today and they did include 100% of all the monies paid to Viking as we were promised on the ship. It was basically everything on our final invoice, cruise fare, silver spirits, trip mate insurance, excursions, extensions, flights, & pre-paid gratuities. It was more than what we've heard other people in the same situation were given amount-wise, though I think Regent was given their cruise fare back as a refund not a voucher. Vouchers work for us as we plan to give Viking another chance, but I know others who were on the cruise do not want vouchers as they have no plans to sail with Viking again. I hope they can find a suitable solution with Viking to make up for this mess. 

[Fieldofdreams]

On 1/11/2023 at 4:38 PM, katlew said:

Just wanted to let those interested know we did receive our vouchers from Viking today and they did include 100% of all the monies paid to Viking as we were promised on the ship. It was basically everything on our final invoice, cruise fare, silver spirits, trip mate insurance, excursions, extensions, flights, & pre-paid gratuities. It was more than what we've heard other people in the same situation were given amount-wise, though I think Regent was given their cruise fare back as a refund not a voucher. Vouchers work for us as we plan to give Viking another chance, but I know others who were on the cruise do not want vouchers as they have no plans to sail with Viking again. I hope they can find a suitable solution with Viking to make up for this mess. 

Kathy - Have you by chance heard of any other Viking ships or other cruise lines being affected by the bio-foul situation since your return? Our cruise to Australia/NZ is coming up in February and I have not heard much recently. I know that the cruise line association and NZ environmental authorities have been meeting but I am curious as to how that has practically played out. Thanks