Will HAL Changes Discourage Regular HAL Cruisers

[mcrcruiser]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Excellent points. 

 

My strategy is to accept that not all lines can do everything equally well. Or if they can, they're probably beyond my ability to afford them. 😉 I also think lines tend to go up and down based on new management, new focus, new ships being launched, etc.

 

I like to keep 3-4 lines in consideration at any given time. I may give any one of them my cruise dollars depending on itinerary, recent onboard experiences (my own and others), and cost.  I find it sort of strange that some people want every line to be the same and sometimes can't accept even small differences across lines without complaining. 

 

Loyalty to a line is also a weird concept to me. If one can love more than one child, why not more than one line?  🤣

 

To get back to the OP's question, I actually see a few positive things lately, with HAL's announcement about focusing on longer cruises. The jury is out on entertainment -- a lot depends on where they go after these recent announcements about changes to Lincoln Center, BB Kings and so on. My gut feeling is that it couldn't get much worse, so maybe it will improve or HAL will concentrate on things that complement their longer voyages...

 

And as for food:  the start of 2023 has been one of cutbacks across almost all cruise lines. Many of you may remember I've been very happy with Celebrity over the past few years, but I feel they have been hit harder than most with cutbacks. In 2021 and 2022 I feel they definitely had the best dining experience between X, HAL and Princess. Now they have made drastic changes. HAL is also making changes but they seem to be fewer/less drastic.... so far. 

 

So X has lowered the bar and now is back in the middle of the field for me (though I still really like their older M-class ships).  I'm on Westerdam for 28 days in late March-April, and I am going with an open mind and with less trepidation about the onboard dining than, say, 6 months ago. 

 

I also have cruises booked on Oceania and Azamara this year. To be brutally honest, food quality, prep and presentation do matter a lot to me, and I may have finally reached the tipping point where the mass market lines can no longer reliably deliver.

 

It's going to be an interesting year or two....

 

Excellent post . There is that fine  line that all business must be aware .Change or Cut Back too much &  people could flee from your product  . Cruises  mostly  compete  with land based vacations especially the All Inclusive types  . 

[Divi]

We disembarked the Zaandam on Saturday after a 16 day cruise. We like 8pm fixed dining and had a great time in the MDR. Our servers, Agangga and Sattwika,  were excellent, personable and efficient.

We spent 28 days on the Rotterdam in October and had great service in the MDR.

We will be on the Noordam for 39 days starting March 25th, again with 8pm fixed dining. 
We love the Pinnacle class ships but thoroughly enjoyed being on a smaller ship again.

[mcrcruiser]

18 minutes ago, Divi said:

We disembarked the Zaandam on Saturday after a 16 day cruise. We like 8pm fixed dining and had a great time in the MDR. Our servers, Agangga and Sattwika,  were excellent, personable and efficient.

We spent 28 days on the Rotterdam in October and had great service in the MDR.

We will be on the Noordam for 39 days starting March 25th, again with 8pm fixed dining. 
We love the Pinnacle class ships but thoroughly enjoyed being on a smaller ship again.

Good to hear about your dining experience on Zaandam   .We cruise on her  next year for the Eclipse /Mexican Riviera cruise   .This will be our  2nd smaller ship experience

[ontheweb]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Perhaps they can only sell cabins at those low prices.  All the cruise lines use pretty sophisticated "yield management" algorithms " in conjunction with management guessing, The idea is to sell the maximum number of berths at the maximum price.  Low prices and all kinds of casino specials would suggest that a line is unable to achieve their sale goals at higher prices.

 

Hank 

Right, an empty cabin brings in no revenue. Once on the ship HAL and all other cruise lines hope you will spend lots of money onboard. 

[Hlitner]

14 hours ago, donandmelissa said:

Nancy, you are probably right but it likely won’t change anytime soon. The economy is driving the prices down.  The alternative is sailing at far less than capacity.  They can’t afford not to fill the cabins. Quite frankly, long term, they can’t afford to deliver mediocre service either.  The other reality is that HAL’s traditional niche type cruisers won’t live forever. They seem to be courting a younger demographic. The younger cruisers may have different preferences as to dining and entertainment.  They will make plenty of $ on my cabin. Alcohol, gambling, specialty dining, etc. 

 

By the way, we also booked a 14 day transatlantic in 2024 with an aft facing balcony for &2400 pp with tips, elite beverage, $276 OBC,  premium internet, 2 nights specialty dining, and $200 each towards excursions. Deals are out there to be had. 

If one is HAL-centric than that might be true.  But consider some other lines such as the new luxury line, Explora Journeys, on January 16, raised prices, across the board, by about 20% for all future bookings.  Their CEO has made it clear that Explora Journeys will not be "price driven" and will charge appropriate prices (necessary to maintain quality) regardless of bookings.  We have also seen this with MSC, who does have the usual periodic promotions, but does not lower prices.  In fact, the cost of their popular Yacht Club has continued to gradually increase.  

 

Yes, deals are certainly out there on HAL and some other lines (we just snagged a good deal on Princess) but not on other lines, especially in the better cabin categories.  Celebrity is charging outrageous prices for their "Retreat" suites and NCL continues very high pricing for their Haven Suites.  In my cruise world (we cruise many different lines) HAL has actually become the budget cruise line.   No question that DW and I could save a lot of money by simply booking HAL or Princess vs some of the other cruise lines we like.  But we look for "value" which is not the same as lower prices.  For the past year we think the best value has been found with some of the luxury lines as well as ship within a ship luxury options.  If one prefers to spend a few hours a day at slot machines, HAL is probably the best value since it can be almost free with their casino deals.  A few months ago I wondered (in a post) how long before HAL converts public space into slot parlors.  Now we hear that the line is expanding casinos on 5 ships which makes me wonder if HAL is going to change from the line for ole folks to the line for slot players.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

17 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Right, an empty cabin brings in no revenue. Once on the ship HAL and all other cruise lines hope you will spend lots of money onboard. 

Yep.  In the industry it is often referred to as "maximizing onboard revenue."  That is apparently why HAL has been targeting gamblers (even giving some near-free cruises) who tend to be the major contributors to the bottom line.  The typical older HAL cruiser who goes to bed at 9pm, and drinks few adult beverages, is not as desired from a marketing point of view.  Those of we seniors, who are often 4-5, are simply tolerated :).

 

So, here is another thought.  Do you think HAL eliminated Production Shows, and does silly things like showing a BBC Documentary for their main entertainment, to encourage folks to spend less time in the theater and more time in the casino?

 

One other thought.  Viking Ocean Cruises and Disney Cruises are both very popular lines that sell out most of their cruises.  What those two lines have in common is that they are expensive and have no casinos.  They also provide uncompromising quality.  Is HAL barking up the wrong tree by focusing on slot players?

 

Hank

[Crazy For Cats]

We’ve seen many changes over the years, some we like, some we didn’t and others we had no opinion one way or the other.  All companies need to change and adapt to their customers.  Hopefully HAL will adapt in away that keeps us coming back.  My main interest is itinerary and good service at a reasonable price.  We are willing to understand some “supply chain “ issues to a point.  I see those issues each week when I venture out to the stores.

 

We have tried NCL when HAL didn’t meet what we wanted.  NCL did some things better, others not so much.  We are willing to try other lines if they meet what we want in a cruise.

 

[Colorado Klutch]

16 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Write where? Can you imagine how many emails and letters they get?  Over the years I’ve suggested many things on my surveys.  I’ve even filled out surveys that were random.  It doesn’t change.  Just because you like the Alaska itinerary doesn’t tell me anything other than Alaska is popular.  I’ve also seen others suggest a very similar itinerary to the one I’ve suggested. Crickets.

 

Try a good old-fashioned snail mail letter:

The postal address of Holland America Cruise Line customer service or head office: 450 Third Avenue West Seattle, WA 98119, USA.

 

If you can find out, It would help to have a name for the person who is in charge. Here in the world of email, chats, texting and social media, it's ironic how nothing gets attention like a traditional, printed letter. 

[Colorado Klutch]

Almost a month ago I booked an Alaska cruise on HAL for May. I couldn't figure out how to book Early Dining, so I called Customer Support. The rep informed me Early Dining and Late Dining were completely full, so I was automatically assigned Anytime Dining. 

I'm wondering if this means my cruise is going to be completely packed or if cruisers have heard Anytime dining is a chaos of waiting in line. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Colorado Klutch

[pirate cruiser]

We have been on 3 different DAM ships and the atmosphere just feels good to us. We are booked on the Oosterdam in Sept for our first trip to the MED-after that we may try another line to get a comparison but it will depend on price and itinerary.

[SeaCapt]

We favor the late (main seating) dining in MDR, table for 2, always request it when booking, and have always been happy. We can arrive 15 minutes early or 15 minutes late, and it hasn't been an issue. No lines or waiting, we just go to our table.

 

We really like having the same wait staff each night, as they quickly learn our preferences (i.e. gluten-free bread for her, coffee with dessert, not after it, etc.), and often seek us out when we breakfast in the MDR just to say hello or to take care of us.

 

It is this usually great service that keeps most of our cruising on HAL. And yes, we have tried 6 or 7 other lines, for a variety of reasons, but keep coming back to HAL.

 

I agree with others that the main stage is wasted, and we would enjoy more production shows, but we also love music walk and can be found listening and dancing there most nights. Which is why we mostly book Pinnacle class ships now.

[mcrcruiser]

5 minutes ago, SeaCapt said:

We favor the late (main seating) dining in MDR, table for 2, always request it when booking, and have always been happy. We can arrive 15 minutes early or 15 minutes late, and it hasn't been an issue. No lines or waiting, we just go to our table.

 

We really like having the same wait staff each night, as they quickly learn our preferences (i.e. gluten-free bread for her, coffee with dessert, not after it, etc.), and often seek us out when we breakfast in the MDR just to say hello or to take care of us.

 

It is this usually great service that keeps most of our cruising on HAL. And yes, we have tried 6 or 7 other lines, for a variety of reasons, but keep coming back to HAL.

 

I agree with others that the main stage is wasted, and we would enjoy more production shows, but we also love music walk and can be found listening and dancing there most nights. Which is why we mostly book Pinnacle class ships now.

Yes music walk is a big plus on the Pinnacle class ships .We love the variety of music .Additionally ,we look forward to the comedians   HAL brings on   in BB Kings lounge . Another nice touch in the day time is the Studio  where we made oligani  figures   .Just wish HAL would bring in some main acts for the wasted World Stage

[Dobby36]

1 hour ago, Colorado Klutch said:

Almost a month ago I booked an Alaska cruise on HAL for May. I couldn't figure out how to book Early Dining, so I called Customer Support. The rep informed me Early Dining and Late Dining were completely full, so I was automatically assigned Anytime Dining. 

I'm wondering if this means my cruise is going to be completely packed or if cruisers have heard Anytime dining is a chaos of waiting in line. 

 

When you get on, go to the main dining room and ask for reservations for each day (or the ones you want) at the specific time you prefer. They can still make you reservations at the "anytime" dining room floor, and you will likely get the same table and staff, at least we have the last two times. When /if you prefer to go elsewhere you can always just call down and cancel or adjust your party size if you make friends, etc. 

[albingirl]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If one is HAL-centric than that might be true.  But consider some other lines such as the new luxury line, Explora Journeys, on January 16, raised prices, across the board, by about 20% for all future bookings.  Their CEO has made it clear that Explora Journeys will not be "price driven" and will charge appropriate prices (necessary to maintain quality) regardless of bookings.  We have also seen this with MSC, who does have the usual periodic promotions, but does not lower prices.  In fact, the cost of their popular Yacht Club has continued to gradually increase.  

 

Yes, deals are certainly out there on HAL and some other lines (we just snagged a good deal on Princess) but not on other lines, especially in the better cabin categories.  Celebrity is charging outrageous prices for their "Retreat" suites and NCL continues very high pricing for their Haven Suites.  In my cruise world (we cruise many different lines) HAL has actually become the budget cruise line.   No question that DW and I could save a lot of money by simply booking HAL or Princess vs some of the other cruise lines we like.  But we look for "value" which is not the same as lower prices.  For the past year we think the best value has been found with some of the luxury lines as well as ship within a ship luxury options.  If one prefers to spend a few hours a day at slot machines, HAL is probably the best value since it can be almost free with their casino deals.  A few months ago I wondered (in a post) how long before HAL converts public space into slot parlors.  Now we hear that the line is expanding casinos on 5 ships which makes me wonder if HAL is going to change from the line for ole folks to the line for slot players.

 

Hank

Two points.  I'm a person who does not want to spend a few hours a day in a casino, therefore I shall not receive any free cruises.  Also, I read on this board that casino offers, virtually free cruises receive upsell offers all the time.  I, however, do not.  It's enough to drive me away from HAL.  Even my PCC does not help me get upsells, so what's the point.

[Colorado Klutch]

34 minutes ago, Dobby36 said:

 

When you get on, go to the main dining room and ask for reservations for each day (or the ones you want) at the specific time you prefer. They can still make you reservations at the "anytime" dining room floor, and you will likely get the same table and staff, at least we have the last two times. When /if you prefer to go elsewhere you can always just call down and cancel or adjust your party size if you make friends, etc. 

 

I will do that. Thank you!

[OlsSalt]

My own HAL loyalty has been earned mostly by its friendly, professional crews, whom I am very happy to reward with my continued business. I award value, which just also happens to be this one particular cruise line for us right now.  

 

Yes, I have cruised other lines. I chose not to reward Crystal with my continued business, but did also reward Voyages of Discovery until it went out of business. I don't mind targeting my travel dollar, when I have generally happy to very happy experiences.

 

Is that now maligned as misguided "loyalty"? I call it voting with my own dollars for a product I like. For some of us, onboard predictability and comfort are of high value, particularly when the HAL itineraries provide all the variety we in fact seek for our travel dollar.

 

Did I find enough "old HAL" on the recent Pinnacle class ships to retain this sense of HAL loyalty? No, I did not. Time to dip my toes back onto "old Hal smaller ships", to see if the old sense of onboard special intimacy and comfort are still welcomed and earned.

 

[HappyInVan]

Back on topic.

 

I'm in a dilemma. Clearly, HAL has forgotten its strategic necessities, in search of $$$ from lower costs and more onboard spending. Should I accelerate bookings in the next 15 months to reach 4-star? Or, is it already too late? The slide is irreversible and its time to jump ship (so to speak)?

 

I could sail 46 nights in 2023, but have only booked 19 nights on the Koningsdam and Volendam.

 

 

 

[OlsSalt]

21 minutes ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

I will do that. Thank you!

 

Might also want to try fixed dining, which was not available when we signed up for the cruise but was available once onboard.  We have always liked the late (8pm) seating and the timing of shows now allowed seeing the early show, and then on to dinner. Late-fixed dinner was nicely paced, dining room was not freneticm and we were out in less than an hour.

[Hlitner]

27 minutes ago, albingirl said:

Two points.  I'm a person who does not want to spend a few hours a day in a casino, therefore I shall not receive any free cruises.  Also, I read on this board that casino offers, virtually free cruises receive upsell offers all the time.  I, however, do not.  It's enough to drive me away from HAL.  Even my PCC does not help me get upsells, so what's the point.

I seldom gamble these days and, out of habit, have long avoided HAL casinos which I think smell like dirty ashtrays (on the ships that allow smoking).  But, I have no issue with folks who do gamble and can get a good cruise deal.  Most of us do look for the best deal (we get lots of extra OBCs by using a decent cruise agency) and if folks enjoy gambling than why not?    And PCCs work for the cruise line so why should they help you get anything?  My favorite cruise agent works for me, currently has 4 of our bookings (with 3 different lines) and does her best to take care of us, since we both benefit :).

 

Once upon a time our assigned HAL PCC called me on the phone and asked what she could do to get us to book with her.  I told her if she would match the deals we can get from decent cruise agencies we would consider booking direct.  Her response was that HAL would not match those deals but we could still book with her (PCC) and later transfer the booking to a cruise agency.  My response was that we saw no reason to complicate simple bookings (which I often do with a cruise agency's own online booking engine).  

 

Folks might wonder why cruise lines (not just HAL) will not match deals from some agencies.  The answer came from a Princess future cruise expert who explained that nearly 80% of their bookings come through outside agencies and they want to encourage that to continue.   The one cruise line (Renaissance) that did not deal with cruise agencies, went bankrupt.

 

Hank

[baggal]

44 minutes ago, albingirl said:

Two points.  I'm a person who does not want to spend a few hours a day in a casino, therefore I shall not receive any free cruises.  Also, I read on this board that casino offers, virtually free cruises receive upsell offers all the time.  I, however, do not.  It's enough to drive me away from HAL.  Even my PCC does not help me get upsells, so what's the point.

Its just not HAL that has casino promotions.  Many, if not all, of the main stream lines - Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Princess, Norwegian, and probably more, all offer discounts/free cruises to their best casino customers.

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, Colorado Klutch said:

Almost a month ago I booked an Alaska cruise on HAL for May. I couldn't figure out how to book Early Dining, so I called Customer Support. The rep informed me Early Dining and Late Dining were completely full, so I was automatically assigned Anytime Dining. 

I'm wondering if this means my cruise is going to be completely packed or if cruisers have heard Anytime dining is a chaos of waiting in line. 

I was on the Eurodam in August in anytime.  Did not see any chaos or long lines.  Dining room operations was very smooth.  

[albingirl]

1 hour ago, baggal said:

Its just not HAL that has casino promotions.  Many, if not all, of the main stream lines - Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Princess, Norwegian, and probably more, all offer discounts/free cruises to their best casino customers.

That's nice.  So much for loyalty.

[FlaMariner]

Will HAL Changes Discourage Regular HAL Cruisers?

 

Our answer to your question:  NO. 

 

We are 3* and our next cruise we cross over into 4* free laundry territory.

 

We have been on 3 HAL cruises since the unpleasantness and have 4 HAL cruises booked.

 

I know of no changes or recent experiences on HAL that will discourage us from cruising w/HAL.  In fact, we have been enjoying our HAL cruises more and more....

 

(after cheating on HAL and cruising Princess last year, we learned our lesson and have sworn over HAL bread pudding to not make that mistake again)

 

MDR...we are early fixed and always enjoy our dinner...food and service are always top notch for us.  The wine and variety of food and 5 courses flow well for us.  Entertainment is a blast.  We choose from the variety offered (BillboardOnboard is a favorite) and go out and enjoy.  And the staff and the well cared for ships with great "bucket list" itineraries keeps us sailing HAL to infinity and beyond!

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by FlaMariner

[Damcruiser]

We started cruising with HAL in 1989 but after reaching 3 stars, were enticed by good deal on another cruise line.  In September of 2022 we tried HAL again for the first time in 14 years and were impressed by the N. Statendam.  We liked it so much we booked again for 7 weeks starting in mid November.  The day before we were set to disembark we extended our stay for another week.

Life onboard is not perfect but every ship and competing product in this price category has similar problems in trying to please everyone.

We started our extended stay in Club Orange but used the MDR the remaining 6 weeks.  We are early diners and never had a problem with service.  We found the service of waiters in the MDR every bit as good as in Club Orange.  There are a couple of menus that we did not care for and found alternatives in either the specialty choices or the Lido.

We loved the music walk (except for the noisy one designed for different ears than ours).

However we loved the Billboard September duo and found the November pair lacked variety and talent.

The problem with Lincoln Centre performances is that some of their music choices are boring and moving them to the main theatre is a good move.

 

We are now 4 star Mariners and the wine selection and pricing is very attractive.

The HIA program is wasted when one just lives onboard and has seen all the islands w/o the need for more excursions.  

The amazing take away from our cruises is the fact that there are so many back to back cruisers.  Every week from 200 to 665 pax stayed for the next cruise.  We have never seen that before.

 

The Christmas cruise:  The person who designed the music program should be locked in a closet and forced to listen to his/her choice 24/7.

The same song would be repeated for 8 to 10 times in a row but varied by artist, then the next song, same pattern. There are so many good songs that would have made a varied pattern.  Never again for this time period.

We love trivia and the presenters were fantastic, with very few repeats over the 8 weeks.

 

The ship is our winter condo and we treat it like our home.  

Shows are meaningless when on B2Bs  (and even the first time around they are mediocre)

 

What we loved:

Dutch Cafe: for the food, not the dessert.

Crow's Nest: Electric outlets for laptops, charging ports for iPhones etc.  drinks, coffees, wonderful view

MDR menu 5/7 days,

Deli at lunch on sea days

Friendly crew, great service (but the officers are an unsmiling bunch with few exceptions.)

There are things missing from our experience in the 90's but we were very happy with HAL

(except for the smoke in the casino which drifted down into the Billboard)

"A smoking section in an open setting is like a peeing section in a swimming pool"

 

[Lildare]

2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Back on topic.

 

I'm in a dilemma. Clearly, HAL has forgotten its strategic necessities, in search of $$$ from lower costs and more onboard spending. Should I accelerate bookings in the next 15 months to reach 4-star? Or, is it already too late? The slide is irreversible and its time to jump ship (so to speak)?

 

I could sail 46 nights in 2023, but have only booked 19 nights on the Koningsdam and Volendam.

I have thought the same, should I continue on HAL even though I am a cruise or two away from 4 star.  Back when I was a 1 or 2 star it seemed liked stars were the way to go, but now it seems a 4/5 star gets no priority at guest services, only Orange Club seems to matter.  I see only free laundry as a motivator or maybe half price dinner in Pinnacle.  IMO, if you don’t gamble, look at other lines that offer better itinerary.  Most folks I talk to onboard say the HAL itineraries are hard to beat at the price point.