Is P&O becoming Carnival’s Budget Cruise Line?

[Bill Y]

4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Thank you. About right for the moronic man he appears to be.  However what is his association with P&O not being welcome? Was it their advert or something?

Although P&O whom Argentina perceived as a British company were not officially banned, after that they suffered delays and problems with formalities and clearances entering Argentinian waters/ports so they gave up on Argentina. I don't think they have been back since.

[Cristaltips]

58 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

It depends where you wish to go in South America as P&O are not welcome in Argentina since the Clarkson debacle there, but Princess, Hal and surprisingly Fred still go.

P&O , as a British ship are not able to visit Argentina as a result of the Falklands war 

[Megabear2]

Now I'm even more confused! Isn't P&O part of Carnival which is a US company? Cunard are surely equally British by that reckoning and I saw Fred mentioned earlier.

 

Anyway this is the "leaked" QV itinerary I've seen and it most certainly includes Argentina. There isn't any Falklands though so maybe that's the problem as P&O go there I believe?

 

Queen Victoria 2025 South America Circumnavigation

04-Jan-25             Hamburg

06-Jan-25             Amsterdam

07-Jan-25             Rotterdam

08-Jan-25             Zeebrugge

09-Jan-25             Southampton

13-Jan-25             Praia da Vitoria

20-Jan-25             Port Canaveral

21-Jan-25             Fort Lauderdale

23-Jan-25             Grand Turk

26-Jan-25             Bridgetown

30-Jan-25             Fortaleza

02-Feb-25            Salvador

04-Feb-25            Buzios

05-Feb-25            Rio de Janeiro

06-Feb-25            Rio de Janeiro

09-Feb-25            Montevideo

10-Feb-25            Buenos Aires

11-Feb-25            Buenos Aires

14-Feb-25            Puerto Madryn

17-Feb-25            Ushuaia

18-Feb-25            Cape Horn (Cruise-by)

19-Feb-25            Punta Arenas

20-Feb-25            Amalia Glacier (Cruise-by)

21-Feb-25            PIO X Glacier (Cruise-by)

23-Feb-25            Puerto Montt

25-Feb-25            San Antonio

26-Feb-25            Coquimbo

28-Feb-25            Arica

02-Mar-25           Callao

03-Mar-25           Callao

06-Mar-25           Manta

08-Mar-25           Panama Canal Transit

10-Mar-25           Oranjestad

13-Mar-25           Nassau

14-Mar-25           Fort Lauderdale

15-Mar-25           Port Canaveral

18-Mar-25           Bermuda

24-Mar-25           Ponta Delgada

28-Mar-25           Southampton

30-Mar-25           Hamburg

[zap99]

46 minutes ago, ccpm said:

I never eat in the MDR but on my last cruises with P&O there may be a sommelier in the Glass House who in the past s/he does the wine talks but none of the other staff are to my knowledge sommeliers. They just serve you your choice of wine and in the glorious past your food which now is very reduced choices if available at all. On Iona Dec/Jan they were open at 3pm to 9pm just the small plates. Waiters brought you the wines you ordered and were excellent but suggest wines etc no-one did that neither did they do the wine tasting etc

On Celebrity Silhouette a brash young sommelier asked if I would like to try the sauvignon blanc with the lobster. No I'll  have a mateus rose please ( that shut him up ). A bit later...another rose sir?..no thanks, I'll have what you recommended. 🤣

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

, I'll have what you recommended. 🤣

With added spit

[cruising.mark.uk]

2 hours ago, Bill Y said:

It depends where you wish to go in South America as P&O are not welcome in Argentina since the Clarkson debacle there, but Princess, Hal and surprisingly Fred still go.

I don't think this had anything to do with Clarkson and nor was it limited to P&O.  It was all about the Falklands War.  See this article, for instance:

https://www.reuters.com/article/argentina-falklands-idINL2E8DRB4J20120228

If I remember correctly, there have been more recent incidents where ships were due to call at the Falklands and Argentina on the same itinerary where the Argentine government said they would not accept ships that had previously called at the Falklands or were due to call there, leading to many planned stops at the islands being cancelled (and conditions there mean that many planned stops never happen anyway).

[Megabear2]

11 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I don't think this had anything to do with Clarkson and nor was it limited to P&O.  It was all about the Falklands War.  See this article, for instance:

https://www.reuters.com/article/argentina-falklands-idINL2E8DRB4J20120228

If I remember correctly, there have been more recent incidents where ships were due to call at the Falklands and Argentina on the same itinerary where the Argentine government said they would not accept ships that had previously called at the Falklands or were due to call there, leading to many planned stops at the islands being cancelled (and conditions there mean that many planned stops never happen anyway).

Thank you for the explanation, although old that makes total sense. 

 

I doubt the younger generation would be too interested in what they perceive as an old hat war judging by the overwhelming support on Britannia for the Argentinian football team!. It seems it's much easier to "hate" France than Argentina these days. 

[Bill Y]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Now I'm even more confused! Isn't P&O part of Carnival which is a US company? Cunard are surely equally British by that reckoning and I saw Fred mentioned earlier.

 

Anyway this is the "leaked" QV itinerary I've seen and it most certainly includes Argentina. There isn't any Falklands though so maybe that's the problem as P&O go there I believe?

 

Queen Victoria 2025 South America Circumnavigation

04-Jan-25             Hamburg

06-Jan-25             Amsterdam

07-Jan-25             Rotterdam

08-Jan-25             Zeebrugge

09-Jan-25             Southampton

13-Jan-25             Praia da Vitoria

20-Jan-25             Port Canaveral

21-Jan-25             Fort Lauderdale

23-Jan-25             Grand Turk

26-Jan-25             Bridgetown

30-Jan-25             Fortaleza

02-Feb-25            Salvador

04-Feb-25            Buzios

05-Feb-25            Rio de Janeiro

06-Feb-25            Rio de Janeiro

09-Feb-25            Montevideo

10-Feb-25            Buenos Aires

11-Feb-25            Buenos Aires

14-Feb-25            Puerto Madryn

17-Feb-25            Ushuaia

18-Feb-25            Cape Horn (Cruise-by)

19-Feb-25            Punta Arenas

20-Feb-25            Amalia Glacier (Cruise-by)

21-Feb-25            PIO X Glacier (Cruise-by)

23-Feb-25            Puerto Montt

25-Feb-25            San Antonio

26-Feb-25            Coquimbo

28-Feb-25            Arica

02-Mar-25           Callao

03-Mar-25           Callao

06-Mar-25           Manta

08-Mar-25           Panama Canal Transit

10-Mar-25           Oranjestad

13-Mar-25           Nassau

14-Mar-25           Fort Lauderdale

15-Mar-25           Port Canaveral

18-Mar-25           Bermuda

24-Mar-25           Ponta Delgada

28-Mar-25           Southampton

30-Mar-25           Hamburg

P&O are still widely perceived to be a British cruise line with a HQ in Southampton.

 

Thanks for the itinerary interesting, BA is certainly worth a visit and we found Ushuaia interesting, not been to Puerto Madryn.  Surprised that the Falklands are not included, There does not appear to be any restriction these day of visiting there and going on to Argentina in the same cruise, We did that in 2018 on HAL and indeed currently Sapphire Princess is on the way from the Falklands to BA via Montevideo.  As Port Stanley is a tender port it’s subject to being abandoned subject to weather.

 

Moley should be able to give chapter and verse on the P&O perspective and maybe able to give insight as the current view on returning to Argentina

Edited February 2, 2023 by Bill Y

[Snow Hill]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Moronic’s about the right word for Clarkson, but this time it’s costing him quite a bit. Deservedly!

 

There used to be a very popular little game played by his ’fans’ a while back, maybe still going on - basically hiding the Clarkson book covers in bookshops to reduce his sales.  😃

One of the locations I volunteer at has a secondhand bookshop, we have removed the 2 Clarkson books that we had on the shelves, noted by the code that they had been there over a year, so no great loss. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Snow Hill
Corrected typo

[molecrochip]

I believe it correct that P&O don't include Argentina on their travels due to perceived diplomatic issues. They have been cases of British ships being detained in Argentina at times of friction since 1982.

 

P&O have not been designated a budget line. They remain the cruise line dedicated to British passengers.

 

People spend a lot of time believing that everything is run out of Miami and that couldn't be further from the truth. The Southampton based brands have a massive amount of autonomy as do the European brands - as they know their markets best. Certain things like ship acquisitions and disposals, environmental policy etc may be dealt with centrally but that covers the brands worldwide. I would say everything on the hotel side including pricing is decided in Southampton.

 

There is no doubt that P&O is operating below-standard at present. It is a massive mix of issues. New staff/short staff, Brexit and Supply issues being the main ones. There is a lot of work going on to improvement things and sort it out.... but it will take time.

[Megabear2]

15 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I believe it correct that P&O don't include Argentina on their travels due to perceived diplomatic issues. They have been cases of British ships being detained in Argentina at times of friction since 1982.

 

P&O have not been designated a budget line. They remain the cruise line dedicated to British passengers.

 

People spend a lot of time believing that everything is run out of Miami and that couldn't be further from the truth. The Southampton based brands have a massive amount of autonomy as do the European brands - as they know their markets best. Certain things like ship acquisitions and disposals, environmental policy etc may be dealt with centrally but that covers the brands worldwide. I would say everything on the hotel side including pricing is decided in Southampton.

 

There is no doubt that P&O is operating below-standard at present. It is a massive mix of issues. New staff/short staff, Brexit and Supply issues being the main ones. There is a lot of work going on to improvement things and sort it out.... but it will take time.

Thank you for that information.  I note the hope we can expect improvements in time which appears to be an acknowledgment that many of the things we have been discussing here are facts rather than us just being nitpicking.  

 

Is there an order for addressing the issues, ie the supply issue is presumably more urgent than say finding and training staff.  The new menus onboard are clearly quite contentious for instance, are the passengers being listened to - there is a repeated reference in reviews of the lack of choice and quality.  Whilst appreciating all lines are adjusting menus to save food costs, P&O really do appear to be at the bottom of the pile at present, words like bland, repetitive, tough and stale make uncomfortable reading on the review pages and social media. It's not a pretty picture.  The customers would I'm sure appreciate honesty and possibly a proper statement by Paul Ludlow or someone high up to let them know how things are going to improve and most importantly by when.

[Bazrat]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

Thank you for that information.  I note the hope we can expect improvements in time which appears to be an acknowledgment that many of the things we have been discussing here are facts rather than us just being nitpicking.  

 

Is there an order for addressing the issues, ie the supply issue is presumably more urgent than say finding and training staff.  The new menus onboard are clearly quite contentious for instance, are the passengers being listened to - there is a repeated reference in reviews of the lack of choice and quality.  Whilst appreciating all lines are adjusting menus to save food costs, P&O really do appear to be at the bottom of the pile at present, words like bland, repetitive, tough and stale make uncomfortable reading on the review pages and social media. It's not a pretty picture.  The customers would I'm sure appreciate honesty and possibly a proper statement by Paul Ludlow or someone high up to let them know how things are going to improve and most importantly by when.

Got to say we are not reading the same things, someone just returned from Arvia and had nothing but praise for food entertainment etc, someone on our last cruise complained the cabin was dirty all cruise entertainment was terrible and there was only curry on in the buffet, when asked did he enjoy the cruise yes his doing it again this year 

[Megabear2]

53 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Got to say we are not reading the same things, someone just returned from Arvia and had nothing but praise for food entertainment etc, someone on our last cruise complained the cabin was dirty all cruise entertainment was terrible and there was only curry on in the buffet, when asked did he enjoy the cruise yes his doing it again this year 

I'm not suggesting that everything is wrong. I am however pointing to Cruise Critic reviews recently posted which have a common theme of the food quality and selection being the let down.  I do not use social media, I do however read the reviews on this site (not just on the P&O boards), Feefo and via the travel trade press to get an overall feel for cruise passengers experiences.  Most of the reviews over on the Cruise Critic review section are currently 3* which is nowhere near where they were previously and I'm sure would be worrying to P&O who are strithing to be 4* plus.

 

Likewise Moley has said P&O are operating below standard. That acknowledgement is not me or anyone else stating they are not as happy as they could be with the product. It is the unofficial P&O mole who kindly updates people here of what is being discussed in Carnival House.

 

Frankly there's nothing to be gained by turning on me for asking if it is known which of the issues P&O are hoping to address first.  I'm just one individual and I doubt that the acknowledgment of slipped standards has anything at all to do with me!

 

I appreciate that a great many don't wish to query if this is the best that can be expected but others do have opinions and it is clearly those unknown parties who are writing the reviews.  

 

For my part I've booked three P&O cruises, two of them in recent days. I therefore have an interest in what if any improvements I might see in the immediate, near and further future.

[doog442]

To be fair P&O's 'what our guests say'  reads like a horror show

 

 https://www.pocruises.com/reviews

 

I think we can read through the happy clappy stuff but I'm surprised P&0 are still linking it as it doesn't read well in any way shape or form.

 

We've had to cancel Arvia for next week, I was looking at Britannia for a last minute Caribbean but not on your nelly based on the content..no chance. 

[zap99]

29 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm not suggesting that everything is wrong. I am however pointing to Cruise Critic reviews recently posted which have a common theme of the food quality and selection being the let down.  I do not use social media, I do however read the reviews on this site (not just on the P&O boards), Feefo and via the travel trade press to get an overall feel for cruise passengers experiences.  Most of the reviews over on the Cruise Critic review section are currently 3* which is nowhere near where they were previously and I'm sure would be worrying to P&O who are strithing to be 4* plus.

 

Likewise Moley has said P&O are operating below standard. That acknowledgement is not me or anyone else stating they are not as happy as they could be with the product. It is the unofficial P&O mole who kindly updates people here of what is being discussed in Carnival House.

 

Frankly there's nothing to be gained by turning on me for asking if it is known which of the issues P&O are hoping to address first.  I'm just one individual and I doubt that the acknowledgment of slipped standards has anything at all to do with me!

 

I appreciate that a great many don't wish to query if this is the best that can be expected but others do have opinions and it is clearly those unknown parties who are writing the reviews.  

 

For my part I've booked three P&O cruises, two of them in recent days. I therefore have an interest in what if any improvements I might see in the immediate, near and further future.

I have 3 cruises booked this year on P,&O to add to the 4 taken since lockup ended+2 on other lines. I guess that shows we are fairly content. Would we like more choice in food, or a bit more luxury?. Sure we would, but I won't be going into print if there isn't a coaster on the table. I would probably ask the waiter for one if it bothered me. If we order a drink, we tell them not to include a drinking straw. I have seen folk taking a picture of a scuff Mark for their review. We join Azura next week. It won't be perfect, but will be enjoyable without a doubt.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by zap99

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

I have 3 cruises booked this year on P,&O to add to the 4 taken since lockup ended+2 on other lines. I guess that shows we are fairly content. Would we like more choice in food, or a bit more luxury?. Sure we would, but I won't be going into print if there isn't a coaster on the table. I would probably ask the waiter for one if it bothered me. If we order a drink, we tell them not to include a drinking straw. I have seen folk taking a picture of a scuff Mark for their review. We join Azura next week. It won't be perfect, but will be enjoyable without a doubt.

 

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.  I'm not sure why you've decided to quote me though?  

[Harry Peterson]

10 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Got to say we are not reading the same things, someone just returned from Arvia and had nothing but praise for food entertainment etc, someone on our last cruise complained the cabin was dirty all cruise entertainment was terrible and there was only curry on in the buffet, when asked did he enjoy the cruise yes his doing it again this year 

People’s personal expectations and standards vary. Some might regard P&O as luxurious. Others will not.
 

John Lewis furnishings have a similar impact I believe…….

[Megabear2]

3 hours ago, zap99 said:

Difficult to remember what I did yesterday, let alone why. I probably did that to agree with your last sentence. You also mentioned  all the comments and reviews on social media. As a slight aside, DW said ' you must have good eyesight '. What me dear?. No this post on faceache. Somebody said they are now in Gibraltar and can look across and see Azura. As Azura is in the Canaries....

Thank you for the explanation. Just to note again I do not have social media accounts and my comments on reviews refer only to CC reviewers and P&O's direct link to Feefo.

 

I totally agree with your observations about how many trivial and downright wrong things are listed on social media - that's why I have no accounts myself, preferring to read more reliable sources.

 

[solentsam]

it is within my budget and its a cruise line so whats not to like lol

ps i have been on over 20 P&O cruises

[zap99]

7 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Thank you.  My personal problem is not portion size more the fact there was an air of we will have to make do - bubble and squeak soup for instance.  There is also the buffet/salad situation where it doesn't change from day to day with exactly the same offering and extremely small choice. On my cruise the menu in the dining room did not in any way match the one for the previous cruise posted here almost as if the ingredients had run out and the chef couldn't offer the Celebration night menus.  I had assumed that there must be an agent in the Caribbean resorts providing fresh salad ingredients etc, does that not happen?

I get a bit confused. On Celebrity and Royal last year...prawns.In the Glass House...prawns. In UK supermarkets...prawns...In the MDR...no prawns...I'm sure there are other examples. This, to a layman suggests cost cutting, not lack of availability. We will not be that bothered and will still have nice meals, but telling it as it is would be more acceptable than P&O making up spurious reasons....not to mention coasters 😁

[Megabear2]

14 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I get a bit confused. On Celebrity and Royal last year...prawns.In the Glass House...prawns. In UK supermarkets...prawns...In the MDR...no prawns...I'm sure there are other examples. This, to a layman suggests cost cutting, not lack of availability. We will not be that bothered and will still have nice meals, but telling it as it is would be more acceptable than P&O making up spurious reasons....not to mention coasters 😁

For all the jokes about prawns I did get the Glass House ones in the first week of my cruise and very nice they were too!  However by day 7 they'd all gone swimming never to be seen again. Perhaps they went to find the lobster from Epicurean who apparently never made it onboard either...

[zap99]

15 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

For all the jokes about prawns I did get the Glass House ones in the first week of my cruise and very nice they were too!  However by day 7 they'd all gone swimming never to be seen again. Perhaps they went to find the lobster from Epicurean who apparently never made it onboard either...

My memory may fail sometimes, but this is the Glass House on Britannia in October. Perhaps I have got it wrong again, but I think those curly pink/white things are Prawns and quite nice specimens. 🦐

[Megabear2]

9 minutes ago, zap99 said:

My memory may fail sometimes, but this is the Glass House on Britannia in October. Perhaps I have got it wrong again, but I think those curly pink/white things are Prawns and quite nice specimens. 🦐

Excellent prawns and by jove I spy a pretty white coaster there as well! Great result.

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

I get a bit confused. On Celebrity and Royal last year...prawns.In the Glass House...prawns. In UK supermarkets...prawns...In the MDR...no prawns...I'm sure there are other examples. This, to a layman suggests cost cutting, not lack of availability. We will not be that bothered and will still have nice meals, but telling it as it is would be more acceptable than P&O making up spurious reasons....not to mention coasters 😁

Apparently there is a Prawn Import Quota, which if exceeded then imports have 20% tariff added to them on import. DEFRA had to increase the quota in September in order to avoid a Christmas short gage at home, so possible that P&O where unable to acquire the quantities need for their ships and would be competing against the efficient buying power of the supermarkets. 
 

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/fish/calls-for-defra-to-raise-prawn-quota-to-stop-supply-issues-at-christmas/669181.article

All this is the result of an event that took place in 2016, and it’s subsequent affect after 31 Jan 2021

 and U.K. still having no FTA with Greenland where the vast majority of prawns are imported from. It’s likely that both Celebrity and RCI bring supplies from the states, similar to what Princess do with beef as mentioned in molecrochip’s post

Edited February 3, 2023 by Snow Hill

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

Apparently there is a Prawn Import Quota, which if exceeded then imports have 20% tariff added to them on import. DEFRA had to increase the quota in September in order to avoid a Christmas short gage at home, so possible that P&O where unable to acquire the quantities need for their ships and would be competing against the efficient buying power of the supermarkets. 
 

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/fish/calls-for-defra-to-raise-prawn-quota-to-stop-supply-issues-at-christmas/669181.article

All this is the result of an event that took place in 2016, and it’s subsequent affect after 31 Jan 2021

 and U.K. still having no FTA with Greenland where the vast majority of prawns are imported from. It’s likely that both Celebrity and RCI bring supplies from the states, similar to what Princess do with beef as mentioned in molecrochip’s post

As Azura is based in Spain in the winter and Malta in the summer. We can look forward to an abundance of prawns, unless it's really operational reasons.🤣