NCL wins the service charge race !

[Blueside]

12 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

For every cruiser who says "I want to see a breakdown for everything" there is another who says "I don't care about specifics, just give me the bottom line." IOW no matter how cruise lines structure their prices, some people will be upset. All of which proves again the old adage: You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

I don't see those two as mutually exclusive. You can want them to give a bottom line price, while also wanting to know how the price was broken down. What some of us don't like is the way they currently hide the DSC from you until later, to make it as difficult as possible for you to compare final prices between cruises.

[yakcruiser]

3 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

They are just as aware that there are other cruise lines as you are aware that there are other guests.

The newbie cruisers that NCL is trying to attract do not care about overall price. They are sucked in by the lowest advertised price. They have learned from the airlines. Spirit airline is the perfect example. Just wait until there is a big banana boat sailing the seas that charges you extra to speak to a live human at guest services. I guarantee you the ship will sail full.

[SeaShark]

2 minutes ago, yakcruiser said:

The newbie cruisers that NCL is trying to attract do not care about overall price. They are sucked in by the lowest advertised price. They have learned from the airlines. Spirit airline is the perfect example. Just wait until there is a big banana boat sailing the seas that charges you extra to speak to a live human at guest services. I guarantee you the ship will sail full.

 

While this might be your opinion, there is simply no way that you know what it is that entices "newbie cruisers that NCL is trying to attract". That aside, people looking for the lowest advertised price are not going to be NCL's market as evidenced by the fact that NCL doesn't offer the lowest advertised price...a number of options exist with lower advertised prices.

 

[SeaShark]

36 minutes ago, Blueside said:

I don't see those two as mutually exclusive. You can want them to give a bottom line price, while also wanting to know how the price was broken down. What some of us don't like is the way they currently hide the DSC from you until later, to make it as difficult as possible for you to compare final prices between cruises.

 

Its hardly difficult...and certainly not "as difficult as possible". You simply can't do the slightest cruise 101 level research without becoming informed about service charges...its an industry standard. Heck, this entire thread started as a result of an article comparing service charges across the industry...with that kind of info, "difficult" is the wrong word. NCL is $20 pp/pd or $140 for a 7 day cruise...easy as pie to add that to the price when shopping...we all received those math skills at the elementary level.

 

If is really presents such a problem, simply ask your TA for options with the total out-the-door price listed. Any TA worth their salt will happily provide that info.

[ChiefMateJRK]

46 minutes ago, lfdemt said:

I can only answer for myself and for my family we have routinely had 4 in a cabin with usually at least one pull down bed from the ceiling.

I've only seen sofa beds and Pullman beds that tilt down from the wall.  Which ship has a bed that pulls down from the ceiling?

[lfdemt]

2 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

I've only seen sofa beds and Pullman beds that tilt down from the wall.  Which ship has a bed that pulls down from the ceiling?

That might have been a Disney ship, also had it on a princess ship.  They are stored in the ceiling and drop to the wall and then down for bed. 

[kjquilts]

9 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

I've only seen sofa beds and Pullman beds that tilt down from the wall.  Which ship has a bed that pulls down from the ceiling?

 

Norwegian Escape for one

 

 

[disneylover89]

2 hours ago, clojacks said:

I'll ask again....what in the second cleaning is so important as to make it a "must have", even at a lower price.

I guess you enjoy paying more for less.  I don't. 

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, Blueside said:

I don't understand why people are so averse to having cruise lines be more transparent about pricing, and just include DSC into the fare. Why do people argue for cruise lines to continue their deceptive practices? Yes, it sums up to the same fare in the end, so why would you not want better information for the customer?

I think for most businesses, it is a clear delineation between allowable and unallowable business expenses. For the same reason that there is a clear delineation between refundable OBC and non-refundable OBC and what those two different classes of OBC can be used for. 

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, SeaShark said:

 

Its hardly difficult...and certainly not "as difficult as possible". You simply can't do the slightest cruise 101 level research without becoming informed about service charges...its an industry standard. Heck, this entire thread started as a result of an article comparing service charges across the industry...with that kind of info, "difficult" is the wrong word. NCL is $20 pp/pd or $140 for a 7 day cruise...easy as pie to add that to the price when shopping...we all received those math skills at the elementary level.

 

If is really presents such a problem, simply ask your TA for options with the total out-the-door price listed. Any TA worth their salt will happily provide that info.

 

That's easier said here than done in real life.

Who is "here" on CC?

Mostly, people who have experience as cruisers, and some fortunate newbies 🙂 

Most cruisers have no idea that CC exists.

Many travelers have no idea they might want to ask travel agents about "other costs"... until they get that bill at the end of the cruise or hotel stay and see those other charges! 😱

Sure, that's upsetting.

 

Given that many people often select choices "by cost", I don't know what the solution is, given that advertising a "lower price" or "as low a price as possible" (by omitting some charges) isn't likely to change.

The problem is that what are omitted are frequently NON-discretionary charges.  To me, *that* is the main problem.  You MUST pay it, so why isn't it part of the "cost"?

 

Sure, "ask to remove it"... wrong approach!  Why not do the same with electricity costs, water, laundry... oh, wait... laundry services are being cut back; less linens, less cost...

When will *that* switch to a "per towel" or "per washcloth" per day charge?

 

Sigh.

GC

[gkbiiii]

So NCL raised gratuities, while lower by 1/4 the pay for head housekeepers.  Then they eliminated twice a day cleaning, most assistant housekeepers, while revoking "all Deck Privilege's" for non-officers.  The crew has been screwed many ways, by these loathsome Venture Capital firms, which own many of the Lines" ie. "Virgin Bain Capital Line."

[Blueside]

2 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

Its hardly difficult...and certainly not "as difficult as possible". You simply can't do the slightest cruise 101 level research without becoming informed about service charges...its an industry standard. Heck, this entire thread started as a result of an article comparing service charges across the industry...with that kind of info, "difficult" is the wrong word. NCL is $20 pp/pd or $140 for a 7 day cruise...easy as pie to add that to the price when shopping...we all received those math skills at the elementary level.

 

If is really presents such a problem, simply ask your TA for options with the total out-the-door price listed. Any TA worth their salt will happily provide that info.

I mean "as difficult as possible" in the sense that they could very easily make the information more transparent, but they don't. And it's not a fault in website design, it's something they do on purpose. How simple the calculation is was not the point and I think you know that. It's not like stores display prices like "$5  *+8+19+2" even though that would also be a simple calculation.

 

It's one of those things that are just a part of cruising on all lines, so I get used to it and shrug it off. But when I see newbies try to navigate the process in confusion, it reminds me of how deceptive it actually is.

[SeaShark]

1 hour ago, GeezerCouple said:

Given that many people often select choices "by cost", I don't know what the solution is, given that advertising a "lower price" or "as low a price as possible" (by omitting some charges) isn't likely to change.

 

Maybe the issue is trying to divine a solution when there isn't even agreement on the existence of a problem that needs solving.

 

1 hour ago, GeezerCouple said:

You MUST pay it, so why isn't it part of the "cost"?

 

Could say this about a lot of things...sales tax for example...yet we all can go to the store and survive without the same level of trauma that the service charge brings to allegedly informed cruisers.

[SeaShark]

9 minutes ago, Blueside said:

I mean "as difficult as possible" in the sense that they could very easily make the information more transparent, but they don't. And it's not a fault in website design, it's something they do on purpose. How simple the calculation is was not the point and I think you know that. It's not like stores display prices like "$5  *+8+19+2" even though that would also be a simple calculation.

 

It's one of those things that are just a part of cruising on all lines, so I get used to it and shrug it off. But when I see newbies try to navigate the process in confusion, it reminds me of how deceptive it actually is.

 

Well, if you really have a way to "easily make the information more transparent", then by all means...sell it to the cruiselines who should all jump at the chance to benefit from your expertise. If what you claim is true, then any company adopting the practice wins because of the multiude of grateful customers they will have as a result.

[Blueside]

Just now, SeaShark said:

 

Well, if you really have a way to "easily make the information more transparent", then by all means...sell it to the cruiselines who should all jump at the chance to benefit from your expertise. If what you claim is true, then any company adopting the practice wins because of the multiude of grateful customers they will have as a result.

Are you under the impression that my goal is to improve cruiselines' revenue? I already said that they do this on purpose, because it benefits them.  I'm arguing for the consumer, not for the cruiselines. I'm not putting together a slideshow to convince NCL board of directors or anything, I'm just criticizing their practices on a cruise discussion board.

[SeaShark]

5 hours ago, Blueside said:

Are you under the impression that my goal is to improve cruiselines' revenue? I already said that they do this on purpose, because it benefits them.  I'm arguing for the consumer, not for the cruiselines. I'm not putting together a slideshow to convince NCL board of directors or anything, I'm just criticizing their practices on a cruise discussion board.

No...I get that. What I don't get is how it is you're not putting together slideshows to convince boards since you speak from a point of expertise. You could be making bank with your great ideas and insight instead of wasting it pontificating here.

[Blueside]

43 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

No...I get that. What I don't get is how it is you're not putting together slideshows to convince boards since you speak from a point of expertise. You could be making bank with your great ideas and insight instead of wasting it pontificating here.

I don't know why you continue to be insincere and sarcastic towards me. You know very well I'm not claiming to be an expert, I'm not claiming to be able to be able to make NCL bank, I'm not even claiming to care if NCL generates profit or not. All I've been doing since the beginning is mildly criticize cruiselines. Maybe your point is that it's a waste of time, but it's as much of a waste of time as any other discussion on this forum, so I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong in your eyes.

[SeaShark]

7 hours ago, Blueside said:

I don't know why you continue to be insincere and sarcastic towards me. You know very well I'm not claiming to be an expert, I'm not claiming to be able to be able to make NCL bank, I'm not even claiming to care if NCL generates profit or not. All I've been doing since the beginning is mildly criticize cruiselines. Maybe your point is that it's a waste of time, but it's as much of a waste of time as any other discussion on this forum, so I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong in your eyes.

 

If you're doing anything "wrong", it would be jumping to conclusions on me. You had this great insight as to how the cruise line could easily and obviously fix their issue...I'm just stunned that...given your obvious industry insight...that cruise lines aren't banging down your door in an attempt to hire you. Your ability to understand how the industry works has to come from somewhere...I just hate to see it wasted.

[cruiseny4life]

8 hours ago, Blueside said:

I don't know why you continue to be insincere and sarcastic towards me. You know very well I'm not claiming to be an expert, I'm not claiming to be able to be able to make NCL bank, I'm not even claiming to care if NCL generates profit or not. All I've been doing since the beginning is mildly criticize cruiselines. Maybe your point is that it's a waste of time, but it's as much of a waste of time as any other discussion on this forum, so I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong in your eyes.

It's hard...but sometimes you just have to scroll past certain posters. I do find many of this one's posts funny, so they get an occasional "like" or "laugh" from me, but I do my best not to engage (though I've definitely been guilty of that as well. Keep on posting, criticizing, etc. That's what Cruise Critic is for. Also, welcome aboard. A lot of us grumpy, but you'll find camaraderie with some if you stick it out. 

[PTC DAWG]

18 hours ago, disneylover89 said:

I guess you enjoy paying more for less.  I don't. 

I'm doing just that on most everything I buy lately.  Sadly.  

[PTC DAWG]

44 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

It's hard...but sometimes you just have to scroll past certain posters. I do find many of this one's posts funny, so they get an occasional "like" or "laugh" from me, but I do my best not to engage (though I've definitely been guilty of that as well. Keep on posting, criticizing, etc. That's what Cruise Critic is for. Also, welcome aboard. A lot of us grumpy, but you'll find camaraderie with some if you stick it out. 

I do think 99+% of us mean well.  Things come across differently when you type if out as opposed to saying in person.  

 

I am guilty sometimes of being very sarcastic...that comes from a certain sports team board that I am a member of, insulting/needling one another is the way many of them roll.  No harm meant, when we get together before a game, best of friends.  

[dohboy43]

21 hours ago, yakcruiser said:

The newbie cruisers that NCL is trying to attract do not care about overall price. They are sucked in by the lowest advertised price. They have learned from the airlines. Spirit airline is the perfect example. Just wait until there is a big banana boat sailing the seas that charges you extra to speak to a live human at guest services. I guarantee you the ship will sail full.

I thought Carnival was already the Spirit Airlines of the seas?

[Lionkingrichard]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:55 PM, ChiefMateJRK said:

And, how soon we forget the great and catastrophic hash brown shortage!!🤣  There were NONE to be found on my October sailing.  Fortunately, they were well stocked on my January sailing. 😎

That's what was missing last week on the Escape!

 

Well I had more Potato's and Veggies instead I guess.

[DCGuy64]

On the one hand, I do get that this is just a discussion board, and it's not clear to me how many, if any, of the suggestions or criticisms offered here are going to make a difference. Maybe, maybe not. There's nothing wrong with pointing out a practice that some deem deceptive. But on the other hand, @SeaShark makes a good point: what exactly is the purpose of complaining about the way NCL structures its pricing if you don't do anything about it? Other than the good feeling of having others say "I agree with you" or "you're right," what difference does it make? In short, I think both @Blueside and @SeaShark are correct. There's room to complain and also say "OK, what do we do about it?"

[Oakman58]

40 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

On the one hand, I do get that this is just a discussion board, and it's not clear to me how many, if any, of the suggestions or criticisms offered here are going to make a difference. Maybe, maybe not. There's nothing wrong with pointing out a practice that some deem deceptive. But on the other hand, @SeaShark makes a good point: what exactly is the purpose of complaining about the way NCL structures its pricing if you don't do anything about it? Other than the good feeling of having others say "I agree with you" or "you're right," what difference does it make? In short, I think both @Blueside and @SeaShark are correct. There's room to complain and also say "OK, what do we do about it?"

 

The only thing cruise critic members can do is spend their money with other cruise lines.  Since my last cruise on the Bliss, I've cruised with Carnival which was an excellent cruise and Princess which was a cruise for the dead and in a sucky balcony cabin that was not my cup of tea.  This June I'll be cruising again with Holland in Alaska and in December with RCL in the Caribbean.