Caribbean princess noro

[Nicole&Pete]

Hello,

 

I am late to this thread but I wonder if someone can help me with this question. I have heard that alcohol hand sanitizer does not kill norovirus. Is this true? If so does anyone know of a type of hand sanitizer or wipe that does kill norovirus?

 

Im conscious that whilst I will wash my hands before entering the buffet, I will then touch multiple surfaces and then use hand sanitizer before I eat, but that might not kill the virus?

[Guest ldtr]

15 hours ago, tothemall&beyond said:

I've never gotten noro in my equal number of cruises. Till now. We can agree to disagree on the source. But people should stop blaming passengers as the main source. Because those same passengers are not causing outbreaks at their places of employment or worship, at shopping malls, fitness centers, nail salons, restaurants, etc. Or even in hotels or on airplanes. So what's the common denominator for cruise outbreaks? The crew. Again, res ipsa loquitur. Peace out.

Actually they do. During any given year approximately 6% of the US population gets noro. Land based outbreaks are pretty common with many outbreaks. Mass outbreaks quite often occur in institutional settings such as schools, nursing homes, prisons, and business environments.  Overall cruise ships tend to have a lower rate of infection, then on land even though they are high density environments. This is mostly due to the VSP program, the rapid identification of cases, and the move to enhanced practices when even a small number of cases on board.

 

On land most that contract Noro never get tested or seek treatment. They just consider it to be the stomach flu, or some other 24 to 48 hour bug. 

 

As far as spread it is mostly spread by contact with contaminated surfaces. One might have some spread by close contact, it is more like the flu, in such cases spread by droplets, than Covid which is by aerosol. As such contact must be very close indeed and much less likely than from contaminated surfaces. 

[Guest ldtr]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:11 AM, mtnesterz said:

Folks tend to congregate indoors during the colder months and it spreads more easily. On a ship, it doesn't vary as much season to season, but once brought aboard, it spreads. The least space-to-passenger ratio of all Princess ships is the Caribbean.

https://cruisefever.net/most-crowded-cruise-ships-by-passenger-space-ratio/

part of it, but not all. Also probably related to the survivability of the virus on various surfaces at varying temperatures and humidity.

[Guest ldtr]

18 hours ago, tothemall&beyond said:

On how many of your post-covid cruises was masking still required for all (pax and crew), or for just crew, or for no one? More to the point, when you contracted noro, was anyone still masked? If so, who? It's relevant because I have also cruised 5 times post-covid (43 days) and got it on the only cruise of the 5 on which crew members were no longer required to be masked.

Keep in mind that during the first year after restart ship occupancy was very low. As a result you not only had lower density of passengers, but also fewer passengers at each boarding reducing the potential introduction of new cases. You also had the passengers tending to isolate more prior to boarding also reducing the number of potential cases.  Even when masking and other Covid restrictions were entirely removed, Noro outbreaks remained at lower levels and have only started to return to historic norms as occupancy has returned to 100% levels.

 

Also keep in mind that even when Covid masking restrictions were in place the cruiselines were operating under enhanced   protocols similar to what they implement when noro cases occur on ship. This includes enhanced cleaning of public surfaces, crew serving in buffet, removal of potential spread items such as salt shakers. Being under enhanced protocols 100% of the is far more likely to have reduced noro spread than masking.

Edited April 24, 2023 by ldtr

[Left_Coast]

There is only one Purell product that indicates it sanitizes for noroviris. It is hard to come by and multiple products can be confusing to the consumer.They explicitly say on thier website (as does the CDC) that others do not.

Others promulgating the idea that most sanitizers work on norovirus does society a dis-service. It can lead to people to not wash, which is the only absolutely effective method.

A camera installed in a former Government institutions washrooms I worked for had found that 70-80% of people either did not wash (or only rinsed). 

[There was no expectation of privacy at this workplace].

[LittleFish1976]

17 hours ago, memoak said:

Noro is not spread through the air. Masking would not help at all. 

 

'Coughing and sneezing by infected people can spread the virus through the air. Eating contaminated food or coming into contact with a contaminated water source can also spread norovirus infection.'

[wrongwaywatson]

3 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

'Coughing and sneezing by infected people can spread the virus through the air. Eating contaminated food or coming into contact with a contaminated water source can also spread norovirus infection.'

Coughing and sneezing are not symptoms of noro.  That person would be spreading their cold germs.

[LittleFish1976]

Just now, wrongwaywatson said:

Coughing and sneezing are not symptoms of noro.  That person would be spreading their cold germs.

 

That was a quote from a search regarding whether norovirus could be spread by airborne particles (droplets and aerolised particles).

 

People sneeze and cough and talk loudly thereby expelling large volumes of air including wet particles of germs even if they don't have a particular condition which may cause sneezing and coughing.

 

It can be spread by your breathing.

[capriccio]

6 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

'Coughing and sneezing by infected people can spread the virus through the air. Eating contaminated food or coming into contact with a contaminated water source can also spread norovirus infection.'

I always appreciate it when posters provide quotes but to be considered informative, I need to see the source.  Thank you.

Edited April 24, 2023 by capriccio

[LittleFish1976]

1 minute ago, capriccio said:

I always appreciate it when posters provide informative quotes but to be considered informative, I need to see the source.  Thank you.

https://www.uspharmacist.com/article/norovirus

[LittleFish1976]

Also, it's useful to remember that the exclusion period for gastrointestinal diseases is 24 hours after all symptoms of vomiting and diarrhoea have ceased. (I'm sure you'll find a reference in the CDC guidelines).

Edited April 24, 2023 by LittleFish1976

[SargassoPirate]

6 hours ago, Nicole&Pete said:

Hello,

 

I am late to this thread but I wonder if someone can help me with this question. I have heard that alcohol hand sanitizer does not kill norovirus. Is this true? If so does anyone know of a type of hand sanitizer or wipe that does kill norovirus?

 

Im conscious that whilst I will wash my hands before entering the buffet, I will then touch multiple surfaces and then use hand sanitizer before I eat, but that might not kill the virus?

 I washy washy on the way in, and then sanitize after touching common surfaces.  Then, I refrain from touching my food with my hands, I refrain from using common-use condiment dispensers, and I refrain from laying my silverware on the table.  I treat the world like the petri dish that it is and do everything possible to break the chain of cross-contamination.

 

Say what you will, but works for me.  I never get sick, still haven't had covid, and in over 50 cruises have never had noro.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by SargassoPirate

[mtnesterz]

4 hours ago, ldtr said:

part of it, but not all. Also probably related to the survivability of the virus on various surfaces at varying temperatures and humidity.

Part of what? My post was limited to answering voljeep's question on seasonal variability. A post, not a treatise. More would have read as pedantic.

Edited April 24, 2023 by mtnesterz

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

'Coughing and sneezing by infected people can spread the virus through the air. Eating contaminated food or coming into contact with a contaminated water source can also spread norovirus infection.'

Sure, except coughing and sneezing are not normally Noro symptoms. Though someone could have already had a URI and then contracted noro.

 

As with the flu and spread of noro by air would be by droplets and more likely to contaminate surfaces, not directly transfered to others.

[Guest ldtr]

35 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

Part of what? My post was limited to answering voljeep's question on seasonal variability. A post, not a treatise. More would have read as pedantic.

just pointing out that the winter peak is due to more than I door grouping in the winter.

 

pretty clear the grouping in cold weather is some of the reason, but not the only reason.  May not even be the main reason.  The literature also points out longer survival of the virus on surfaces during those months. 

[GoDucksNation]

You need to use Purell prime defense. It has 85% alcohol. You can find it on Amazon.

[Nicole&Pete]

Just now, Left_Coast said:

There is only one Purell product that indicates it sanitizes for noroviris. It is hard to come by and multiple products can be confusing to the consumer.They explicitly say on thier website (as does the CDC) that others do not.

Others promulgating the idea that most sanitizers work on norovirus does society a dis-service. It can lead to people to not wash, which is the only absolutely effective method.

A camera installed in a former Government institutions washrooms I worked for had found that 70-80% of people either did not wash (or only rinsed). 

[There was no expectation of privacy at this workplace].

Hi do you happen to know what the type of Pirelli’s at all?

[Nicole&Pete]

Just now, SargassoPirate said:

 I washy washy on the way in, and then sanitize after touching common surfaces.  Then, I refrain from touching my food with my hands, I refrain from using common-use condiment dispensers, and I refrain from laying my silverware on the table.  I treat the world like the petri dish that it is and do everything possible to break the chain of cross-contamination.

 

Say what you will, but works for me.  I never get sick, still haven't had covid, and in over 50 cruises have never had noro.

 

 

I love the Petri dish analogy, I’m going to remember that for my next cruise! It clearly works for you!

 

I think the fact that people won’t be super careful leading up to their cruise because they don’t have to test negative for Covid to board makes a big difference in terms of what germs come on the ship.

[Nicole&Pete]

Just now, Nicole&Pete said:

Hi do you happen to know what the type of Pirelli’s at all?

Sorry I meant Purell 

[tonit964]

I think hand sanitizer is a false sense of security. I always wash my hands before & after getting my food from the buffet. 

The key is to wash your hands thoroughly and often.

[startedwithamouse]

1 hour ago, tonit964 said:

I think hand sanitizer is a false sense of security. I always wash my hands before & after getting my food from the buffet. 

The key is to wash your hands thoroughly and often.

We wash hands before and after the buffet also. After is the real key here, with soap and hot water. We also never touch the table with utensils. We place a napkin on the table and utensils on the napkin, and use a separate napkin on lap for wiping hands. Countless cruises, never caught a thing, even with huge noro outbreak onboard.  

[Mrbp1]

Purell Prime Defense, 85% alcohol, is the hand sanitizer. You can get a 4 oz bottle at CVS or sometimes Walgreens for around $5 to $6. I had no problem finding them in those drug stores. Amazon had a 4 pack of 12 oz bottle for $33! Do not need that much so went the route of the drug stores. 

 

The hand sanitizer does smell like alcohol but using it should cut down on the noro virus.

[buckeye7]

I bought some Prime Defense at CVS. I can’t find anything that confirms that it works against Norovirus. Does anyone have a source that confirms this? Thanks!!

[d9704011]

14 minutes ago, buckeye7 said:

I bought some Prime Defense at CVS. I can’t find anything that confirms that it works against Norovirus. Does anyone have a source that confirms this? Thanks!!

It doesn't.  Wash your hands thoroughly with warm soapy water.

[mtnesterz]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:55 PM, Nicole&Pete said:

I am late to this thread but I wonder if someone can help me with this question. I have heard that alcohol hand sanitizer does not kill norovirus. Is this true? If so does anyone know of a type of hand sanitizer or wipe that does kill norovirus?

Im conscious that whilst I will wash my hands before entering the buffet, I will then touch multiple surfaces and then use hand sanitizer before I eat, but that might not kill the virus?

Not as effective as other commonly used things. How about an analogy.

Imagine that you have just gotten some blood on your clothes, you go over to the sink immediately and water, or even rubbing alcohol, washes it right out. Now let that blood sit for a few minutes and you'll need some hydrogen peroxide or bleach to get it out.  What happened? Proteins had begun to lock onto the fabric. Water and alcohol stopped working, but breaking proteins down with peroxide, the blood washes out.  

Viruses are simple things. Just replicating information inside a protein structure, called a capsid.

Using alcohol on Noro is not like turning on a light switch; meaning that it either works or doesn't. There are degrees of effectiveness based on concentration, the more alcohol, the more effective.

More effective against Noro on surfaces would be either a commercially available bleach wipe or hydrogen peroxide. They both affect (to keep it simple) the protein capsid. That's what needs to happen.

On hands, It's best to simply wash them with soap and water.

Edited April 25, 2023 by mtnesterz